From: Rúnar Ingi Hjartarson [mailto:RUNAR@hugur.is]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:58 AM
Subject: Compressor, Engine-driven
Hi.
It have been so much talking here about the electronic compressors. I think
most of them is useless, at least if youīre gonna use it for the tire...or a
air-tools.
I tried to use e-compressor from ARB and didnīt liked it at all, so I fixed belt driven compressor on the bracket for AC. Itīs possible to bye the strecher for the belt or just build it like I did (didnīt like the price). I used Harrison compressor from GM-truck, but itīs barely enough space for it so I would recomend another shape. Mine is rather high and it should be easy to get anouther (I just got this one before the car). I putted closed lubricate cycle on the compressor and have two air-tanks (planing to build the third from thebull bar). If you want to hear some facts then befor the new compressor it took around 30 min. to air from 5 psi to 20 on the 38" tire, but now only about 5-10 minutes. But what I realy like is donīt have to relay on just the electric compressor. I guess Iīm pretty safe with both of them. (The electric one was in the car when I bought it, I would never put it in myself)
.Runar Ingi
---------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:22:03 -0500
From: rdl@nomurany.com (Robert D. Leggiero)
Subject: Re: [D90] Engine-Driven compressors
> If you don't need the AC, do it! But you will prolly have to make some mods
> there is lots of information on this on the web. Here are some sites:
>
> http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/yorkair.html
> http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/faqs/aircompr.html
> http://members.home.net/osburn/onboardair.htm
> http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/onboard-air.html
Thanks Doug. I think that's what I'm going to do. Probably will cost alot less than the $550 for the Currie/Thomas. Also will leave room for something else. An on-board welder mabey :-)
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:18:37 -0800
From: "Rick Larson" rlarson@vineyard.mti.sgi.com
Subject: Re: [D90] Engine-Driven compressors
You have to be a bit carefull. The reason York compressors of the '70s vintage are used is that they are easy to convert to an oil bath lubrication. (Some may come that way from the factory?) Anyway, modern air compressors use freon (or a PC substitute) as the heat exchange material and a lubricant. If you just pump air through them they will sieze up.
- -Rick
-------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:45:17 -0500
From: rdl@nomurany.com (Robert D. Leggiero)
Subject: RE: [D90] Engine-Driven compressors
Good news, I found the number for Wynns and spoke to a tech there. The compressor is a Soltech. I think that's what I remember too from when I matched it up in my AC manual. Anyway, he said it could be used as an air compressor and was lubed the same as the York which he also said was what most people rig an on-board air setup with. I'll look it up when I get home to confirm.
Rob
----------
From: Doug Aitken[SMTP:jdaitken@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] ready air
Dave G wrote:
>Okay, dumb question time....
>Is the Ready-Air compressor engine driven or electric?
>I couldn't figure it out form the two postings to the FAQ.
Both!
Unfortunately, two different products by two different companies, with the
same name!
The engine-driven one was made by Therold industries (760) 356-4516 for the
3.9 V8 only (up to '95 model)
The Electric Ready Air is made by Automatic Controls Technology - tel:
(800) 982-0409). They have two models:
- the 2 stage, 1/2 hp gives 1.1 cfm @ 175 psi, continuous duty! but it is
big 'n' expensive (18x12x8, 47 lbs, about $1200) and sucks 42 amps
- the 1/3 hp single stage gives 1 cfm @ 120 psi, continuous duty. It is
more reasonable size, but still pretty big (34 lbs, 9" w, 7" h, 14" l) and
costs about $600.
FAQ that!
Doug A
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From: Ed Sanman[SMTP:eds@ceoregon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Re: Where's YOUR air compressor?
I just replaced my Quick Air II, with a Thomas. The QAII, and now the Thomas resides under the passenger seat in my '95. The QAII got extremely hot, and labored really hard to fill my 2 ― gal tank. The Thomas, commercially rated for continuous duty, is cool to the touch, and doesn't labor at all to the 110# pressure I've set.
I got my Thomas compressor at Grainger. http://www.grainger.com
Mine is the 1/3 H.P. model # TA-4101 DC, Grainger stock no. 5Z678#.
For the price, the QAII isn't a bad compressor, but I wouldn't use one again with a tank. It works best for short duration use.
Ed Sanman
'95 ST #2122
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:24:51 -0600
From: daitken@sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com (Douglas Aitken)
Subject: [D90] Extreme site/Compressed Air manifold
Hey folks!
In all this rush of everone getting their own web pages, we seem to have
forgotton about the Extreme Site that Sean put up for us! as I am currently
access E-mail and the web (free!) via a Company server without permission
to set up a web page, I still rely on the extreme site to post stuff which
may be of interest. Of course, if anyone wants to pillage my posts and
jpegs offthere for their own use, feel free to do so. just credit where due!
A while back I posted pics of my Ready Air installation. I found that (at least here in Texas) I was getting too much oil (from the compressor) and water (from the humidity) in my air line for airing up tires. In fact, I could drain out a good cup full of emulsion from the tank after a weekend of use (no knowing how much was getting into the tires, but they should be real slick 'n' easy to pop off the rims! Anyway, to get round this, I assembled a H-manifold (after a few false starts in the prototype stage!) which is as tidy as I could make it. It has an inlet and three outlets:
Filtered max pressure (180 psi) with a variable flow control for airing
tires, air beds, rubber duckies
Regulated, filtered air (currently set at 90 psi) for ARB actuation (or
othe low pressure/clean air applications).
Regulated oiled air for running air tools (impact wrench air socket, drill,
grinder).
I posted pics and details on the extreme site:
http://www.learnlink.emory.edu/solaros/SolarosWWWConf/Extreme/
Doug
'95 Red Defender 90 5-speed
'95 Aspen Silver Range Rover 4.0
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:19:36 +0000
From: Craig Reece craigreece@earthlink.net
Subject: [D90] Ready-Air still available
I had a brochure for Ready Air, and I just called them (800-982-0409, or
207-989-9502 if you're in Maine) and they still sell the Ready Air. Last
price list I had was $559 for the single stage, and they have a portable
version in a wooden box for the same, slightly less CFM (1 vs. 1.1) or
if you are really in a hurry and have bug bucks to spend, the two stage
model is $1195.
Curry sells a heavy-duty compressor very similar to the Ready Air. They
offer a 1/6 HP model, and 1/4 and a 1/3, which I have and love. They
sell a storage tank that goes with it, and the necessary solenoid,
pressure switch, etc. It was on the truck when I bought it, but I've
inquired before, and I think it about $600. Not cheap, but you don't
have to mount it in the engine compartment, and it's oil-less. The
compressor is made by Thomas, and Grainger sells them, but it doesn't
look like you'd save a whole lot by buying it that way, 'cause you'd
still have to by all the other stuff.
Craig Reece
'95 White softtop
----------
From: Bill Ritchie[SMTP:billnsandi@kingwoodcable.com]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] CO2 = H20?
>What type of water/liquid remover are those with CO2 tanks using? I've heard of
>people having trouble from the added moisture with CO2 tanks. Causing the tire to
>more easily pop off the bead and that it is really bad to use these tanks for ARB's.
>Comments?
Shane,
CO2 = H2O?????
I had heard the same thing when I was looking at using the CO2 tank as the
pressure source for the ARB. I think people misconcieve that CO2 tanks have
a significant amount of moisture in them because the valves and hoses
freeze up when used in a high flow state for more than a short time. But
this is just condensation in the air freezing on the outside of the system,
not inside.
Compressed CO2 is in a liquid state in these big tanks, and when it changes
phases from a liquid to a gas it gets very cold (I think something around
-80 degrees F). Liquid CO2, I would guess has less H20 in it than regular
air (which you pump in the ARB with a compressor), especially here in
Houston and our 99.9% humidity all the time.
I have used my CO2 tanks for over a year now for filling my tires and
airing up after outings. They are beadlock rims and I have broken them down
several times during that time and have never found any moisture whatsoever
inside the tires.
In my pneumatic system (CO2 tank >3 way valve> ARB diff), there is very
limited flow, and in fact the system is mostly static pressure (not
constant flow through the diff - unless of course you blow an O-ring in the
diff). I would expect that this system should be "drier" than using air
(humidified air) to actuate the locker. And there is little chance that the
system will "freeze up" because it is so low flow.
I am no chemist, nor am I a physicist so the above statements are my
opinion only. I would welcome statements or opinions from anyone with more
experience in this area.
Bill Ritchie
'97 D90 ST AA Yellow "Tonka"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:56:03 -0500
From: Bill Ritchie billnsandi@kingwoodcable.com
Subject: [D90] 1/2 Price PowerTank Alternative
I recently went to a local welding supply shop and purchased the components
for a "homemade" CO2 PowerTank (Conroe Welding Supply, Inc in Porter Tx).
10 pound Aluminum CO2 Tank (40 cubic ft. O2 tank labeled for CO2) - $105
Balloon Baron CO2 Regulator (100psi constant output) - $26.80
25 ft 300 psi hose with quick disconnets - $28.00
This tank has all of the functionality of the 10 pound PowerTank for much
less money. It does not have the fancy gauges (don't need them cuz the main
pressure of the tank will stay constant until the tank is almost empty -
and with constant 100 psi output don't need that gauge), or the nice
handle\regulator protector (make sure you secure the tank with a sturdy
mount).
PowerTank 10 pound - $299 plus shipping
Welding Shop Alternative (with better hose) - $158.80 plus tax
Email me if you would like a dig. pict of the tank and hose. I will post a
pict. or two on the extreme site as well.
Bill Ritchie
'97 AA Yellow D90 #2078 (DRS, 35's, Detroit, TT, 4.1's, and other stuff)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:10:04 -0500
From: daitken@sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com (Douglas Aitken)
Subject: RE: [D90] Power Tank Alternative thoughts
Just a small addition to what Chuque has written:
There are two gases used by off-roaders (and others) as an "air supply":
Nitrogen and CO2.
Nitrogen is used for filling tires in critical applications like racing as
it is an inert gas: compressed air has a slight explosive risk due to the
oxygen. CO2 is also a low explosive risk. But its unique advantage is that,
due to its phase behavour, it is possible to store liquid CO2 at a
relatively low pressure at room temperature. Thus, a tank of compressed
(liquid) CO2 has many times the volume of gas than a similar tank filled
with Nitrogen (which cannot be liquified at room temperature at any kind of
reasonable pressure).
This gives an enormous difference in the usefullness, not just for "airing"
tires, but running air tools.
I have helped Alan Dobbs and Bill Ritchie work on our Defenders using a
Powertank to run airr tools and we have done a lot of serious work
(stripping and rebuilding both front and rear axles) on less than one tank.
The only thing to worry about is that (as Bill has mentioned) there is a
dramatic temperature drop when the gas is reduced from ~2000 psi to the
working pressure of 100 psi. however, even running air tools, this has not
been enough to cause the gas to solidify at the regulator (this would need
60 deg celsius). But there will be a build-up of frozen water vapor on the
outside!
Obviously, any compressed gas tank stores a LOT of energy, so must be
treated with extreme care. Just think what would happen if the regulator
was knocked off with the tank loose! So, as Chuque says: care and
protection is required for any compressed gas tank.
As an aside: the original question from Carter asked the advantages of
compressed gas over an ARB compressor. As Chuque rightly points out: speed
and increased utility (power tools). However, the ARB is not really rated
for continuous operation and is at its absolute limit inflating tires. For
reliable inflation a rather stronger compressor is advisable. there are a
number of stronger ones available (e.g. QuickAir and Electric Ready Air).
However, even these are poor performers beside an engine-driven compressor,
which is also capable of powering pneumatic tools and, as long as you have
gas in your tank, is an unlimited supply. For this reason, the
engine-driven compressor is the ideal air source for expedition vehicles or
extended trips where replacement gas tanks are not available.
Doug
----------
From: Shane Ballensky[SMTP:roverme@sunset.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] Air Tank
> Shane- I put mine under the centre console. It just fits, but you can't use
> the outlet at one end. I've got the pressure switch at the passenger end,
> and the outlet at the top. My air line runs back into the battery box, and I
> have a coupling on the front of the seat box. I'm working on hooking up my
> sliders(?), and will use the front bumper as a further tank. A bit
> excessive, but I'm usually the only one with a decent compressor when we
> come off the sand. BTW it still leaves room for an Ashcroft "crawler"
> conversion on the rear of the transfer box. Noel D.
Noel,
Thanks for the recomendation for the air tank placement. After I had
mounted the tank next to the frame under the passenger seat which was where
I thought was the only place it would fit I reinstalled it under the console
which I believe is a much safer place for the tank.
Shane 94d90#1316
w/about 5gal. of air!
----------
From: Bill Ritchie[SMTP:billnsandi@kingwoodcable.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:35 AM
Subject: PowerTank alternative and uses was Re: [D90] ARB pressure
Q,
I have been successfully using air tools with my homebrew power tank for a
while now. The simple regulator I am using is fixed at 100 psi and seems to
run tools fine, although using Alan Dobbs humongous air compressor at his
shop runs them with alot more power. I have been using the output from the
regulator directly through a 3 way pneumatic switch to the front ARB
(90-100 psi) without any problems.
Bill R.
ps. make sure if you get a 20 lbs CO2 tank that you don't get one with a
"siphon tube". This will dispense liquid CO2 from the bottom of the tank
(used for filling other tanks with liquid CO2) instead of gas from the top
of the tank like a conventional tank will.
david.gomes@us.gambro.com added:
Air tools depend as much on flow as they do on pressure. Most need to be
fed by a min. 3/8" ID feed to run well. Things like the ARB, that need only
pressure, not much flow, can be plumbed with 1/8" or so lines. If you want
to use air tools, design the part of the system that will feed them with
flow in mind. Big fittings, big valves, and big lines. Save the little
stuff for the ARB.
-Dave G.
----------
From: Robert Dassler[SMTP:roadsiderob@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Hot Air [was:Re: [D90] ARB]
The half litre reservoir on the ARB compressor is good for about 3 locker
activations. I have built a couple of sets of sliders as air tanks for
customers. Make sure the end cap material is as thick or better than the
tubing used. NAPA sells steel bulkhead fittings. I use them as bungs and
weld them into the tubing. That way you have a real tapered pipe thread of a
decent length to screw fittings into. You will probably also want to
incorporate a drain into each slider to get rid of any moisture that
condenses. I plumbed all of mine with Diesel truck airbrake fittings--Also
available from NAPA. Getting the ends to seal is the hardest part. If you
have any pinholes--try putting on some wicking loctite if you cannot
reweld--I have not personally tried this approach but have heard of it being
done successfully. I would not recommend putting any more pressure into a
slider than an ARB pump would put out. A better solution might be to get a
second hand Air tank for an air suspension Range Rover. It is a certified
tank that will hold 10 BAR and is tough enough to live under the car. You
could mount it to the outside of the chassis under the passenger side very
easily. As for a compressor--I have contacted Maxi-Drive in Australia--they
make a dual outlet PTO for the LT230 that will run both a hydraulic pump for
a winch as well as an air compressor. They are supposed to be sending me a
catalog. I will post more info when I get it. The U.S. distributor for them
is Great Basin Rovers.
Rob