----------
From: Brian Bonner[SMTP:enigma90@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Retaining your springs
For those looking for smaller lighter Deep Cycle batteries, here is the line
replacing the Black Panther:
http://www.premierpowerwelder.com/platinum/platinum.html
----------
From: Brian Bonner[SMTP:enigma90@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Oddysey Batteries
> I've also heard the Optima can be completely drained and recharged a
limited
> number of times too. Like 12 or something better than a normal battery.
> The gel cell is supposed to be unlimited. Don't know the truth on this
one.
Well not completely drained. to 10.5 volts optima 220 times.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/main.htm
Click on products then deep cycle then one of the 2 battery choices.
A good price and comparison of different optimas:
http://www.powersonic.com/optima.cfm
Odyssey specs say 400 cycles at 100% which would be 10.5 volts:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/battery1b.htm
Better prices:
http://www.powersonic.com/odyssey.cfm
----------
From: Clarke Williams[SMTP:clarkewilliams@halcyon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] Battery (very long)
To determine if a flooded (lead plates w. liquid acid) battery, with low fluid in one or more cells, can be recovered:
Top off the battery with distilled water. DO NOT ADD BATTERY ACID.
For all batteries:
Allow the battery to sit with a trickle charge for approximately 24 hours. You are NOT trying to charge the battery at this point -- only allowing the battery chemistry to come into proper balance, in the case of a flooded battery, allowing the distilled water to completely go into solution. After the trickle charge (not more than 3 amp charge rate), allow the battery to "rest" for another 24 hours. This will let you determine the actual charge state of the battery. If this is a flooded battery, measure the specific gravity of the battery with an hygrometer that is temperature compensated. MAKE SURE YOU COMPENSATE FOR TEMPERATURE. Then measure the open circuit (no loads on the battery) voltage of the battery. Compare these measurements to the manufacturer's specifications/tables for specific gravity and voltage. (not all batteries are of the same construction -- use the manufacturers tables.)
You can now attempt to apply a full charge to the battery. The manufacturer should have charging current vs time tables to give an idea of charging time to full charge. Use a properly regulated charger with at least 2 stages to charge the battery. If the battery does not recover to full manufacturer's rated voltage after the charger decides to go into the "float" stage, the battery is damaged. It may still be usable for light loads but is not at full spec.
I know this is somewhat vague but it is a real PITA to actually determine a battery's charge state unless it is fully rested. If someone on the list is *really* interested, I can look up the various voltages expected, charge curves, etc. So can you (I don't have them handy except for gel cells and Advanced AGM batteries -- I don't use cheap flooded batteries, they aren't worth the $ or weight to put in IMO).
A good battery, after a full charge, should read approximately 12.8 volts or pretty close. Float voltage @20C should be about 13.6 volts. These voltages vary more than you would think with temperature and battery chemistry. A few tenths of a volt is the difference between a "good" battery and a "bad" battery. Low open circuit voltage on a fully charged battery = inability to deliver any substantial current. Use the manufacturer's tables and a GOOD voltmeter (millivolt resolution and accuracy).
Clarke
---------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:48:14 -0600
From: Jeff Gauvin jeff.gauvin@lsil.com
Subject: Re: [D90] Batteries
At 08:16 AM 4/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Good Morning,
>
>Does the list have an opinion as to the merits of Optima versus Black
>Panther batteries?
Black panther makes a lot of claims about how their battery is superior to the competition (Optima) -- how many cranking amps they can deliver and how many deep discharge cycles they can handle and how small they are, etc. But the one spec I could not find on any web site is their *CAPACITY* in amp-hours. This is an important spec if you're using the battery for anything other than starting, like winching or running accessories, and I find its absence significant; every other battery manufacturer states capacity, why not Black Panther? I'm sure a phone call would yield this info, but I get the impression these batteries are designed for short bursts of high amps, not long discharges at a lower rate. I could be wrong though.
But if you have to hook a bunch of 'em in parallel to get the capacity you need, then there goes any size/weight/cost advantage. And remember that B.P. is most likely comparing them- selves against the older Optima Red Top, not the newer Yellow Top which *IS* designed for deep cycling. Basically, like any purchase, compare *ALL* the specs before making a decision.
FWIW - both Optima and Crischell Automotive (Panther) are both based in the South Denver area. Makes me think that maybe Crischell was founded by an ex-Optima employee, not that this would imply anything one way or the other; lots of companies get started this way. Optima was a spin-off of Gates (rubber).
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90
---------------
Folks, it's a while since we discussed batteries for D90's. There was a brief discussion of Black Panther vs. Optima, but I did not see a resolution or definitive opinion on which was better. However, just to stir things up (positively!), I enclose a snip from the IBEX mailing list, where Lifeline batteries were discussed as a better battery than the Optima. These batteries are not cheap, but appear to offer considerable advantages over the optima in terms of power and lifetime. They are super-rugged and made by the principal hi-tech battery supplier to the military. They are freely available from West Marine at pretty good (discount) prices. Check out the Lifeline site at:
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/default.htmHere is the original reference:
What about Optimas? I would think that an ideal setup would be one regular Optima and one deep-cycle one.
The Optima is an "AGM" or Absorbed Glass Mat battery. Though I have never owned one they look like better than average batteries low a bit low on power. The Lifeline AGM batteries I use are also AGM but are available in a much broader range of standard battery sizes up to 8D (BIG @ 21" L x 11" W x 10.5" H). The Lifeline batteries have more current capacity, especially in larger sizes.
The Optima "deep cycle" is 10" L x 6.8" W x 7.8" H; 65 amp/hr (@ 20hr rate); 750CCA; max charge rate 20 amp; max cycle life (deep cycle) 350 cycles.
The Optima "starter" battery has 800 CCA but only 56 amp/hr capacity and only 50 cycles life (deep cycle); it is the same size as the deep cycle Optima.
Lifeline size "Series 24" battery (fits darn near anything) is 10.8" L x 6.6" W x 10" H; 80 amp/hr capacity; 550 CCA; 1500 cycle life (deep cycle) - life with discharge to 50% is around 3500 cycles.
Lifeline size "Series 27 " is 12.6" L x 6.6" W x 10" H; 95 amp/hr; 575 CCA. Lifeline batteries can be charged as fast as you can with no practical current limit. What is the use of having a 100 amp alternator if the battery will only accept 20 amps when is deeply discharged (such as after a long winching session)?
Just for comparison the Lifeline 8D is 20.6" L x 11" W x 10.2" H; 255 >amp/hr; 1350 CCA. Now this is a battery!
Doug and Kim Aitken
'95 Red Defender 90 5-speed
'95 Aspen Silver Range Rover
----------
From: Larry Michelon[SMTP:lmichelon@i-c.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] batteries - optima alternative
> Also The Gel battery
> claims cleaner voltage that they "Claim" will increase starter and
> electronic life. True? Who knows.
I do use Gel's in my boat, and they seem to work OK with a normal
alternator/voltage regulator setup.
Word of warning on using gels. Gels like to see a different type of charge
to truly get the benefit out of them. I'm currently working on a project
that changes out "normal" batteries for Gels (hundreds if not thousands). If
we go to Gels, we will be changing out all the alternators and installing
external, multistage voltage regulators. This is per the
recommendations/specifications of the battery manufacturer. And no, they
will not benefit in any way by recommending the change. In fact, because of
this recommendation, we are less likely to buy their batteries.
Larry M.
----------
From: Craig Reece[SMTP:craigreece@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] dual optima on LRO (long)
> >LandRover Owner Magazine features a dual battery set up on their project
> >D-90. It is composed of a red top starter battery, a yellow top deep cycle
> >and split charge system.
> >
> >the article implies that this is a very effective set up if you run extra
> >lights and a winch. from what i understand before, it is best to run a
> >winch from a starter type battery rather than a deep cycle. deep cycles are
> >for auxiliaries that draws continues power like refs, lights etc - unlike a
> >winch that draws amps in surges? i need your inputs on this.
Ryan and Doug,
I have two dissimilar Optimas - a Red Top for starting and accessories, and a
Blue Top deep-cycle marine (like the yellow top for winching, with a Batter
Manager system from Wrangler Power Products www.wranglernw.com or 800-962-2626.
I've had this system for about 6 months and so far no problems. And Atlantic
British is now selling a dual battery kit with Wrangler's Battery Manager system
as an option - so this may be what Ryan saw on the project truck in Land Rover
Owner Magazine.
The best feature of this system is that the 2nd battery is isolated when the key
is off, so if you leave your lights on it can't be discharged - and if you do
discharge the main battery, you can self-jumpstart yourself with a flick of the
(momentary) switch. Plus the two batteries can be combined for winching, or left
isolated so that if you completely draw down one battery while winching, you
still have one battery that's charged.
As to possible problems with different batteries installed in parallel (which is
how the two are connected with the Battery Manager if you flip the switch from
"Aux off" to "Dual on:" According to Harold Barre in "Managing 12 Volts" - a
book that I believe Clarke recommends - Doug is correct about the tendency of
the stronger battery attempting to charge the weaker when connected in parallel.
Or in the two batteries never getting a full charge. And he discusses various
methods of battery combining. And he points out that even two identical
batteries from the same manufactures can, over time, can develop differences -
one battery can get a dead cell, for example - that can result in differing
charging demands and create "a small circulating current" - that is, a current
from stronger battery to the weaker. But since the batteries are isolated when
the key is off (if using a constant duty solenoid as in the Wrangler system)
this can't happen when the vehicle is running.
He recommend a constant duty solenoid for battery combining and isolation as
having the advantages of simple selector switches without the disadvantages of
either - the selector switch can fry your alternator if you turn it to "off'
while the engine is running, and requires manual activation in any event, and
the isolators have a diode which results in a voltage drop and in the batteries
never receiving a full charge and with resulting sulfation of the plates.
I do notice that my main battery tends to show (via a two position voltmeter) a
lower voltage than the Blue Top - especially after sitting for a week or so,
with the small drains from the clock, radio memory, alarm, etc. What I do in
that case is drive awhile with the switch in the Aux off position to allow the
main batt. to fully charge, then I'll flip the switch to the Dual on position.
So far, so good. But I could be wrong, and may experience shorter battery life
than if I had two Red Tops.
Craig Reece
----------
From: The D-90 Source BBS - DJ Menasco
Subject: Dual Battery from Atlantic British
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 01:42 pm:
Sounds like you need some amps running through your machine? I suggest you give
Wrangle NW a call. They're located here in Portland Oregon and are the one's
that created that AB dual battery package. They also have a high amp alternator
for your D90 if you're interested. I bought my alt. from them (150amp) for about
~$300, I think. I personally believe its worth it seeing how the stock alt. for
a 95 D90 is about the same price.
Additionally, if you don't like the Wrangler Dual battery setup have a look at
Hellroaring setup (http://www.hellroaring.com/). This is also what I run
(BIC-75300A). I choose it over the AB setup because it's one modual, effecient,
and most of all its small. As you know there isn't a lot of room in that battery
box espiecally if you're running dual batteries. The owner/operator of
Hellroaring is a nice guy and is really good about answering questions concering
his products and others.
Anyway, should you give Wrangler a call be sure to ask for Stan Hackathorn and
just mention that you're looking for a nice dual battery system and/or high
output alternator. Here's a link to their website: (http://www.wranglernw.com/).
Here are the two pictures for you. The first clearly shows both yellow tops.
It's usually recommended that if you plan to run dual batteries that you use the
same model and age. I'd have a look at the Optima website (http://www.optimabatteries.com/faq.asp)
as I'm pretty sure they address this issue.
Both of the yellow tops fit nicely, but I did have to place some Viton matting
down to level the batteries and to aid stability. Additionally, I removed the
OEM battery mounts and installed my own. My mounts were rusted through and it
made them flimsy and unreliable. Every time mounts dislocated they would allow
the batteries to slide around and tear up the paint. I ultimately had to have
the box sanded down repainted due to overwhelming amounts of surface rust.
To the rear of the battery box you can see the Hellroaring isolator unit. It's
pretty small and I have direct access to it should I need to remove it and not
the batteries. It also left room for my bottle jack and other accessories too.
Although, I elected only to keep the bottle jack in there and stow my tools
under the passenger seat. As for the remote mount I initially have elected not
to use it simply because I knew I wouldn't have a use for it. However, I do plan
on purchasing it soon as the need for has come up. I think a great place to
install the switch, if you haven't already used them, is the original switch
panel located to the left of the steering column. I think you can remove the
Hellroaring switch and splice the wires to an original parts three way switch.
Hope these pictures help out. Don't hesitate to ask anymore questions.
Regards
DJ
--------------------------------------
From: The D-90 Source BBS - Bob Bingham
Subject: Dual Battery from Atlantic British
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 12:28 am:
ok, just finished doing the install of two new yellow tops using the AB kit
(Wrangler). I will say that the instructions SUCK ( they weren't instructions,
just a really rough diagram, a bunch of parts and a few little labels on some of
the wires (not all of them), but once you start rolling along, it all comes
together and pretty much everything is included and is not all that bad to
figure out. If you've done any wiring at all, it's pretty self explanatory... I
didn't blow anything up. I did have to make a new harness for the ground wire
from the isolator to the main battery. As it turns out, the way I chose to mount
the batteries and the isolator, the supplied wire was too short. The kit
includes a new battery mount bar with two little posts on it. It wasn't any
mention in the instructions, but this is where your supposed to mount the
isolator (duh!) meanwhile, I had already drilled a few holes north of the tire
chock location so went with that instead. I mounted the remote as you suggested
on the left side of the steering wheel.
Bob
----------
From: Brian Bonner[SMTP:enigma90@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] headlight upgrade
> Tip: if ever you're altenator isn't charging properly, check the tightness
> of that 1/2inch nut on the starter! (but not too tight as the solenoid
> plastic end cap will crack.)
Disconnect the ground from the battery first! Then use a wrench to hold the
inside nut then tighten the outer nut as even if you don't crack the housing
you can spin that bolt and break the wires attached inside.
----------
From: John Purnell [mailto:john@bignew.com]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Alternator Question
>While I am sorting out the electrical, I thought I would go
>ahead and do an alternator upgrade to better accommodate
>a winch and possibly extra lights.
>
>I am guessing that the original Lucas on there is about a 65-70 amp unit.
>Are there any options for a higher output unit? Can one adapt a 1-wire
>Delco alternator? I can do one of those at about 130 amps and that would be
>my first choice if possible.
try this for delco alt swap...
http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~jdh6/RRalternator.html
Ali, Ashfaq [mailto:aali@usg.com]
added:
The Delco upgrade is very straight forward
but I'm not sure if the one wire kind will work. I upgraded to a Delco
CS130 with a tach output. It does require the battery voltage to excite the
field. Going to a 130amp alternator would've been nice for me but the V
belt pulley system is inadequate for this high amp unit. Under heavy loads,
the belt can slip on the pulley. This is where a surpentine pulley is real
nice.
Anyway, if you want a detail writeup, email me off list and I'll send you a
word document with pics.
Cheers,
Ali
----------
From: Robert Dassler[SMTP:roadsiderob@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:11 AM
Subject: RE: [D90] used alternators?
Another thought--check with Premier Power Welders--They have a high output alternator that will fit a 94/95 D90 with minor mods to the upper adjuster bracket.
Marc-Andre Leger ma@mlink.net added:
I put in a Powerline alternator, just needed a bracquet that I had made... a
lot cheaper and more amps...
Rob Dassler
----------
From: Bruce R. Bonar[SMTP:brbonar@wenet.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Re: Premier Power Welder alternator
> My real goal is to find the PPW part number people are
> using. Bruce, is yours the 160A model ? Does it have a tach output ??
Yes, it's the 160 amp complete with welder. It does have an tach output but
since it has a different number of poles than the Marelli alternator the stock
tach won't provide an accurate reading. I installed a VDO programmable tach.
The VDO is much easier to see and is an easy install.
Does anyone else with a PPW get a very pronounced whine from the alternator?
Mine sounds like a jet taking off sometimes when it's under load. PPW says
this is "normal" due to the close tolerences of the windings.
Bruce
94 D90 "Spot"
Charles Morris[SMTP:d90@jps.net] added:
Bruce, I have heard about five or six of these on different types of
vehicles and the sound was the same on all. I mistook the first one for a
gear drive by mistake.
----------
From: Jamie Austin[SMTP:jamieaustin@fsbdial.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:36 AM
Subject: [D90] Twin altenators
To fit twin altenators to 300Tdi you need the following parts :
ERR 5870 Mounting brkt. altenator £74.56The most expensive bit is the actual altenator bracket (apart from the altenator itself) any standard LR altenator with 3 fixing points will fit. I used AC pulleys when I first installed the set-up,but they don't last very long at all,so I got the military part numbers which are listed,believe it or not,they are cheaper than the civilian Air Condonditioning parts! I installed a relay wired through position 2 on my ignition switch.The sense wire from the new altenator goes through the relay onto the new 2nd battery via the warning light.so when the ignition is switched on,the 2nd altenator becomes 'live' as it senses the voltage from the 2nd battery.a friend of mine did a twin altenator conversion on a V8 90,but wired the 2nd altenator sense wire straight to the ignition switch,so,eventhough the 2nd altenator charged OK,it was in fact sensing the amount of charge needed from the wrong battery.it worked but as you can imagine,in theory and practice,it was not a correct installation.
Also on defenders,the bottom right hand icon on the warning light panel on the dashboard shows either a battery with '24v' in it,or just a plain battery,this is what the military use on the FFR (fitted for radio) vehicles.so there is a ready made warning light on the dash.it's pretty neat!
Jamie Austin
'96 D110 Tdi
'92 D90 Tdi
'85 D90 V8i
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:43:55 -0500
From: daitken@sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com (Douglas Aitken)
Subject: Re: [D90] Battery Isolator
Rob: just to add to your confusion (or choice!) check:
http://www.4wdworld.com.au/dualbat.htm
http://www.guestco.com/guestco/switches.html
http://www.guestco.com/guestco/isolators.html
http://www.colehersee.com/battery.html
http://www.twinpower.com/
The last of these is kinda cute (but not of serious interest to us!) as it
combines two batteries and the selector/isolator circuits all built in!
I think most of the products do more or else the same thing, with wrangler
(http://www.wranglernw.com/)
and Painless (http://www.painlesswiring.com/index.htm) the most common (to
us off-roaders). But Guest and Cole-Hersee are the actual manufacturers of
some of the stuff these guys use. Just something to think about!
There is at least one person on the list (Chris Glaves:
http://www.cs.odu.edu/~glaves/chris/) has another similar setup to the
Hellroaring, but made in Australia.......
Choices, Choices!
Good Luck
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:19:19 -0600
From: Jeff Gauvin jeff.gauvin@lsil.com
Subject: Re: [D90] Battery Isolator!
At 01:50 PM 7/15/1999 +0000, you wrote:
>You probably know it but Optima company reconmends "NOT" using battery
>isolators with their batteries. Just put them together in paralell. If
>you insist on using an isolator with Optimas can you please provide me
>with the why?
Allow me -- some isolators use big diodes to provide the
isolation. Diodes have a voltage drop so the second battery
doesn't see the full charging voltage. Optimas don't like
this. On the other hand, other isolators (aka. combiners)
do not have any voltage drop and should not cause any
problems.
Why would you want to do this? So one battery can be used
to run accessories while the vehicle is not running w/o
running down your starting battery.
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90
----------
From: Clarke Williams[SMTP:clarkewilliams@halcyon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Split charge system
The difference in a fully charged battery and a battery that has been discharged over 50% is only 0.60 volts at 77F.
If you routinely allow a battery to discharge more than 50% and stay that way, you will murder the battery. It will have less than 10% of the life it would have had if properly charged.
It is your money. If you are happy with using a battery at less than half of its capacity, and then killing it because you never properly charge the battery, who am I to criticize.
Similarly, battery regulators should be multi-stage (preferably 3-stage) and properly temperature compensated if you expect to get full power and life from your batteries. This is especially critical on deep cycle applications such as an Overland vehicle. The difference between the proper absorption voltage for a battery at 77F (14.34 volts) and 104F (13.98 volts) and 0F (15.24 volts) is large. If the regulator is a typical automotive single stage regulator with no temperature compensation, you are both giving away large amounts of battery capacity as well as sharply reducing battery life.
----------
From: Clarke Williams[SMTP:clarkewilliams@halcyon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Split charge system [multipart mime alternative 5 lines deleted.]
Chris and all others looking for "Living On 12 Volts with Ample Power":
Get it directly from the Author, David Smead. I've told you guys before about
the stuff in "Living On 12 Volts with Ample Power" but ....
Anyway, the URL is http://www.amplepower.com
Ample's alternators are really good. Dave Smead's regulators are the best in
the business, especially for people trying to use 12 VDC power for
refrigeration and other heavy, long usage applications. Prices are good from
their sister company (link on the Ample Power page). The various information
on the website will keep you busy for several days. The 2 books Dave Smead has
written, "Living On 12 Volts with Ample Power" and "Wiring for 12 Volts" are
priceless and will keep you busy for months.
If you want to get the best batteries available, contact me off-list. The link
for these batteries is http://www.lifelinebatteries.com They
are a similar technology to Optima batteries, without the marketing hype. They
also offer larger sizes up to 210 amp hour 8D-size batteries (too large unless
you plan for an under-floor battery box).
Clarke
----------
From: TeriAnn Wakeman[SMTP:twakeman@cruzers.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Split charge system
I have the system that lots of people recommend against. A solinoid that
is activated when the key is on. It was cheap, it was quick, it was
going to be a temporary circuit.
When the key is off both batteries are on completely different circuits
except for a common frame ground. When the key is on both batteries are
in parallel and charged by my alternator. I have a voltmeter on the
instrument panel that shows that the circuit has just a hair under 15V
when the engine is running. The solinoid cost me under $15 and got the
second battery working in time for a long trip.
People say not to charge a deep cycle gel battery in parallel with a
regular lead acid becuase it will drastically reduce the life of the gel
cell deep cycle. I'm sure they are right but my gel cell deep cycle is
well into it's fourth year of keeping the rear camper electrics working
and as of last summer it could still power my refirgerator in 80+ F
degree weather for a good three days and of lately it can still keep my
12V electric blanket tosty warm all night and have electricity left over
to run the water pump & keep the fridge going.
I stopped arguing with what seems to work in spite of recommendations.
TeriAnn
Clarke Williams[SMTP:clarkewilliams@halcyon.com] adds:
TeriAnn,
Your system is IMO among the very best solutions. Simple, reliable.
Flooded chemistry batteries and gels have somewhat different "ideal" charging voltages. Given the limitations of almost all automotive regulators, these differences are the least of your worries. The lack of temperature compensation, single-stage charging, and other problems with internal regulators are far more grievous than the slight voltage difference between wet and gel.
Clarke
And others later added that a switch in the solenoid activation line would allow the batteries to be isolated with the key on, in case of wanting to winch with the engine running and still keep a starting battery in reserve. (ed.)
----------
From: Craig Reece[SMTP:craigreece@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:50 AM
Subject: Twin Optimas
......I have twin Optimas fitted, and there is a problem with the floor of the battery compartment that makes their installation slightly difficult. What I had to do was fit a piece of 3/4" plywood that fits into, and completely fills up, the well at the bottom of (part of) the battery compartment, resulting in a level floor. I was then able to mount two standard size Optimas (and they just came out with a smaller size for those who want to fit 3) side-by-side, with their long dimensions oriented left-right in the compartment.
I used Wrangler Power Products ((1-800-962-2616) dual Optima battery kit (and they sell Optimas also, although I bought them locally to save shipping costs) and their Battery Manager system - but they just came out with it for the D90, and apparently the D90 they used to prototype it had a flat floor in the battery compartment (this sounds dubious to me - I think they simply didn't notice it had the well) so they knew nothing about the problem we are having, and also intended for the batteries to be oriented end-to-end, which isn't possible, with the result that the connecting cables weren't long enough. They immediately fabricated correct cables and sent them out Next Day Air. But I would ask if they've made that a permanent fix to their kit.
Craig Reece
----------
From: Troy McNeill[SMTP:tbmcneill@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 9:22 PM
Subject: [D90] Re: another wiring question and a coil question-SOLVED
> Does anybody know which wires on the back of the ignition unit on the
> steering column go to what?.......which wires would I put together to
> start the truck......
FYI for whoever's interested:
brown wire -battery lead - position 2
red/white wire - to starter - position 1
white wire - to coil - position 3
orange/white wire - to ? - position 5
If you ever need to hot wire your truck-
put the battery wire (brown) and coil (white) wire together;
then touch the the starter wire (red/white) to the those until the
engine starts - then pull it away.
Now, you can at least get home-
Troy
----------
From: Gomes, David[SMTP:david.gomes@us.gambro.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: [D90] starter problems...
"....My question: what's the "Q" (cheapest) way to fix this? is it
just the ignition wire set? the ignition module? the coil?....."
You lost me there bud when you jumped from clicking starter to talking about
ign stuff. If the motor were turning but not firing, I'd say look to
ignition. If it's not turning, look to:
Connections
Cables
Solenoid
Starter
in that order.
Number one is to clean and re-torque all the cable connections. Clean cable
ends and attaching points with a slurry of baking soda and water. Lube them
with heavy grease or wax (like wax-based motorcycle chain lube best) before
re-assembling. Don't forget any connections you've added for power switches
or to the winch or charge splitter.
If this doesn't solve the problem, try jumpering directly from battery to
starter with a jumper cable. If that works, then replace the battery
cables. Stock ones are marginal at best anyway. Look into some good 00
welding cable replacements.
Sticky solenoids are also common. The piston in the solenoid is a close fit
to the bore and a surprisingly little crud will create enough resistance to
motion to keep the solenoid from closing the contacts that send juice to the
starter. If there's an external connection from the solenoid to the
starter, put a volt meter on it and see if it's getting energized when you
turn the key. If not, look to a sticky solenoid. If it is getting
energized, and all your connections and cables are in top condition, then
you have to look to the starter.
Best of luck,
-Dave G.
----------
From: Craig Reece[SMTP:craigreece@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] Starter
> ......I'm pretty mechanically inclined, so do you think that replacing the
> starter is something that I could handle? If so, where is the starter
> located, and how do I go about replacing it?......
Ehren,
The starter is low on the engine, at the rear of the engine, and on the
passenger side. It's protected by a heat shield, is a cylinder about 4" in
diameter x about 9" long, and has several wires, large and small, running to
it. I think you could pull it if you are mechanically inclined - you'll need
an allen-head, or hex-head driver, preferably 3/8" drive - which you'll use
with a 3/8" ratchet and an extension. (I'll go out and check the size for you
- off the top of my head I'd say 8mm.)
[Craig later confirmed it IS 8mm - Ed.]
I think it's possible that your starter is just not working because of the
dunking it got, and it could even be just the wires - the water could've set
up some corrosion at the connections, so I'd remove the heat shield to give
access to the wiring, then pull the wires one at a time (after first
disconnecting the negative cable at the battery) clean the connecting
terminals with spray electrical cleaner (you can get it at any auto parts
store or OSH) and sanding the larger lug-type terminals on the big cable from
the battery with sandpaper or emery cloth, or a wire brush. If there is a lot
of moisture in any of the terminals, us WD-40 to displace the moisture.
Replace the wires after first coating the terminals and the lugs with
silicone dielectric grease - which conducts electricity but prevents water
from corroding the terminals and connections. Then reconnect the battery and
try the starter again. I might work now.
If it still doesn't work, pull it and either take it to a local rebuilder you
can probably find in the yellow pages - it probably just needs a good
cleaning of the interior. If you are really feeling brave, take it apart
yourself - take careful notes of what goes where - best is to take a buncha
polaroid shots as you disassemble it. If it's all wet and funky inside, dry
it and clean it per the above instructions, put it back together and give it
a try.
Or buy a rebuilt or new one from one of the vendors at www.D-90.com -
Europarts, British Pacific or Rovers North.
I'll email you in a minute with the size of the allen-head driver.
Craig Reece
----------
From: Keith Armstrong[SMTP:karmstrong@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: Fw: Question or Comment from mean-green.com
[submitted to mean-green.com - Ed.]
> I just bought a starter for my '94 Land Rover Discovery from Great
> Basin Rovers. I know about the water ingress problem and the unit that i
> have does not have the vent holes sealed.
>
>Is this correct? Should I add external breather lines for this potentially
> wet application?
>
>Thanks -
Here's first response.....
If under water conditions exist, please use breathers. Thanks for your
inquiry.