Stalling at idle (MY1994)
For those of you experiencing stalling/surging/ intermittent idle in your 1994 D-90's, let me be the first to tell you you are not the first. My truck spent the better part of 3 months with the "experts" last summer with this malady, and had over 2 grand in repairs done before the fix was found. Numerous others had this problem last summer, and we were all ready to go after LRNA. The problem was so bad, and the "experts" were so baffled, that when some engineers from Rover England came to LRNA headquarters in Lanham MD, they asked me to send my truck up as a special "problem vehicle".
Here's the fix: In Technical Information Bulletin #86/08/94/US, it is stated that the ignition module is located too close to the distributor as originally installed, and as such is susceptible to excessive heat and vibration, thus making it prone to sending bad infor to the coil. This is obviously exacerbated by off-roading and those hot summer days. The remedy is a newly designed ignition module and mount, right next to the coil. The part # for the kit is STC1856. I think it was a couple hundred bucks.
So, if you are the proud owner of a 94 D-90, you just might want to check and see if this retrofit has been done to your truck, because if you haven't suffered this failure, you may sooner than later. If you are stalling and surging, I'd definitely investigate this TIB.
Farvin
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From: Alan E. Foster[SMTP:alan.foster@vt.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] stumbling/hesitation/stalling
.......(extraneous info clipped - ed.).......
I'd suspect the fuel filter, and dist. cap/rotor. Townsend Wolfe has got a
great source on his web site, lists the cap as NAPA part# EP-78 and the
rotor as NAPA part# EP-72 ... you won't be able to detect a crack in the
cap, they're too small to find, and you can get a Purolator fuel filter
(F33144).
BUT ... is your truck a '94? If so, have you relocated the ignition
module? If not ... this may be/probably is your problem, or will have to
be addressed sooner than later. If you don't know if it's been relocated,
the stock location was between dist. and engine ... relocated is on ds
wing. If you wish to test it, the only way I know is, next time it dies,
pull the core wire and see if it'll spark to ground whilest someone cranks
... OR, there seems to be a common symtom of a dying ign module, that being
that you'll have a dead spot in your acceleration at 2800 RPMs. Relocation
kit is available, comes with everything you need, LR PN: STC1856. I hope
this helps ...
-Alan
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Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:02:25 -0500
From: "The Schimmings" damonkc@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: [D90] Hard starting when hot
I have a '95 D90 SW that had very similar symptoms. Actually, mine first
started while the engine was running. It would die while driving and had a
very difficult time starting again. After it cooled down a bit, would fire
up normally. Finally figured out it was the coil wire. The dealership said
they had a service order replacing them on the Disco's and put a new one on
for free (while under warranty).
Just a thought.
Damon
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:27:35 -0400
From: "Dirk Tischer" dirk@rust.net
Subject: Subject: Re: [D90] Surging/Stalling
I had similar problems on my D90. My 90 would surge up to around 2000 RPM
then stutter and stall at random intervals. It also would miss fire and
barely accelerate on occasion.
There were two problems. The first fix is the easiest. Check your plug
wires. Replacing them with good aftermarket wires shouldn't cost more then
$100.00 and may fix the problem.
I also had a problem in my ecu. Water had gotten in and the contacts were
dirty. The warranty report stated that they cleaned the contacts and put
the ECU in a plastic baggy... Whatever they did, it solved my surging
problems.
Good luck,
Dirk Tischer
___________________
Waterproofing:
I used to have the same missing/rough idle problems after deep water. I went to a multi-prong attack on the problem.
First off, I got a *big* tube of silicone grease/dielectric grease and applied it in big globs to the coil terminals to keep water off them and then applied rings of it around the top and bottom of the plug wires terminals on the dist cap. I also smeared a ring of it around the base of the cap on the outside only(I didn't take the cap off and run a bead around the base, I figured it needs to vent outward when hot, and it would just push bubbles through the silicone if needed and then the silicone grease would hopefully seal itself again, since it doesn't dry hard), especially on the side facing the fan. Every electric connector under the hood got a good dollop where the wires went in to it. I then used a spray product called wire drier on the top of the cap itself and the first couple of inches of wire. The plug-side of the plug wires got a dollop of silicone/dielectric too. After I was done with that, I took some Silicone Spray/Lube and sprayed the outside of the wires with it to help prevent wet-arcing.
So far that has been good in water up to just e my FI/Fuel Pump relays. If you have a 95 (?) the under seat box is nowhere near waterproof as a friend here found out.
My biggest problem is the fan, which rotates in the direction that it throws water right onto the dist cap. I've often wondered if I could make a small aluminum shield and sandwich it between the bolts of the alternator tensioning bracket. (Look at your fan-dist-alt bracket relationship and you'll see my idea) Another suggestion was to get longer leads and use a 2 liter soda bottle cut apart over the dist which I will try next time, in conjunction with all the goop.
If you do decide to drill (vent) your dist cap, I would run a light smear of silicone grease around the base and connect the drilled hole to a battery powered aquarium pump (from pet store) to give the distributor positive pressure. That's how they do it in various asian countries. I've seen petrol powered toyota pick ups crossing *deep* water. I would not run it to a common manifold vent for example as it may just "suck" water in...
--pat.
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Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:04:16 -0500
From: Bill Ritchie billnsandi@kingwoodcable.com
Subject: Re: [D90] D90 Wierdness on a 97 SW
I had a similar occurance of almost exactly the same symptoms twice in the
recent past. Both happened after power washing the engine bay after
wheeling. The first time after powerwashing my D90 was missing very badly
and had no power. I drove home about 200 miles at about 55 mph (max speed).
The next day the symptoms were gone. The second time, again after a
powerwash of the engine bay I noticed the same problems (missing, smoke, no
power, etc).
While trying to fix the problem I got a call on my cell phone from none
other than Alan Dobbs who correctly diagnosed the problem as a wet
connection in the ignition system. He directed me to the small white quick
connector just behind the plenum chamber and in front of the spark plug
coils on the back of the engine. I pulled apart the connection, shot it
with some contact cleaner/dryer (supplied by Geolander Doug) and
presto-chango the engine purred like it was new. Alan's D90 had a similar
problem in the past and used this fix with good results. Try it, very cheap
and could be a simple fix. If this fixes the problem you may want to coat
the contacts with some dielectric grease to semi-waterproof the connection.
If you have trouble finding the connector in question I can post a pict or
two on the extreme site.
Bill Ritchie
'97 AA Yellow D90 #2078 (DRS, 35's, Detroit, TT, 4.1's, and other stuff)
-----------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:13:41 -0700
From: Will Ferguson will@di.com
Subject: RE: [D90] Ignition
I was recently having some rough running problems that varied with the
temperature... worse the hotter it got. The interesting part was that it
also
really only happened in the higher RPMs. I checked all the connections
under
the hood, etc. etc, but it seems to have been the water resistant box I had
put
the ECU in was retaining too much heat and the computer was getting too hot.
So
now I run with the top of the box off. Much better.
I hope this helps, but if your computer isn't getting hot, I doubt it will.
Will Ferguson
94 D90
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From: Doug Aitken[SMTP:jdaitken@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] Re: submerged D90--finished
I think I may be able to solve this mistery! When I fitted my new plug
wires, I was real careful to put a dab of silicone grease on 'em. but I
found that doing this traps air, which is compressed when you push on the
boot. In my case, when the engine started warming up, the increased
pressure of the heated air popped the wires off. Could be that the wires
just popped themselves off? No blame to anyone!
My fix was to push the wires on again when the engine was hot (ouch!) so
any air trapped was hot: when the engine cooled, I checked and everything
was snug.....
Doug A
------------------------------
From: Richard Campbell [mailto:rcampbell13@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:22 AM
A land rover dealer come up with this idea to keep the ECU dry. It has seemed to
work. They used what appears to be a transmission fluid container and feed the
wires down through the top and sealed them. They then cut out the bottom to
allow the ECU to vent. This seems to keep the unit dry. It has worked very well
as long as I don't get about 6" of water in the cab.
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From: Robert Dassler[SMTP:roadsiderob@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] MSD Ignition
Rob says: "I have installed MSD ignition systems on several cars to cure this (ignition trouble with superchargers - ed.) problem."
Brad Brennan asks: "Is the MSD installation one that an OK for a beginner tinker can handle?"
Rob Replies:
The hardest part of the MSD ignition is the mounting of the components. There is very little room and I make (weld) custom brackets to mount the control unit. The actual wiring is very straightforward. You will need the optional bits to trigger the fuel injection. As with any addition like this that requires modifying the vehicle's wiring, proper connections are the difference between a reliable system and a problematic one. (see the General Wiring FAQ - ed.) Make sure all connections are crimped and soldered to insure that they will stand up to the conditions these cars live in. Make all of your connections as good or better than factory. I recommend the off road version of the MSD ignition as it is designed to handle more vibration and rough treatmaen than the standard version. Also, the MSD is configured so that with minor jumpering the system can be returned to stock if required for diagnostic purposes or if the MSD control unit fails. Most of their stuff is also CARB approved so that emissions compliance is not an issue.
Rick Larson asks: "Any chance you have part numbers handy?"
And Rob Replies: "Try www.msdignition.com for their web site and online catalog."
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From: John Weisenburger[SMTP:jweisenburger@futuresource.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 9:09 AM
Subject: Coil in Discos (also rotor buttons)
I have used a Beck Arnley cap and rotor before on my '95 Disco. The Beck
Arnley cap is blue, so it matched real nice with my red Magnecor wires.
:) The rotor went on with no problems. Here's the part numbers:
Cap: 174-6825
Rotor: 173-7875
These were available at Murray's (auto stores in Illinois, don't know if
they are elsewhere). I think the cap was about $15, and the rotor was
about $8.
John
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From: Thomas Joyner[SMTP:tjoyner@frontier.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: Coil for Rovers
FWIW, I went to the local Checker Auto and bought a generic coil
(actually Will Jansen posted a replacement/crossover p/n) and have been
running w/o problems for about 5000 miles now.
"If it is the same coil as my 3.5L Range Rover's...then you do not have
to buy the coil from the dealer... Te part number is either E520 or
EP520 Borg Warner ignition coil that you can get from Pep Boys or have
another parts store cross it. Check this first, because basically, a
coil is a coil...
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From: Doug Aitken[SMTP:jdaitken@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] New coil
At 11:09 AM 11/30/00 -0800, RB wrote:
>My stock coil started to leak and I did not want it to ruin the new 8.5mm
>wire so I replaced it with a Crane Cams unit recommended by a reputable
>Rover mechanic. Now it won't idle steady until it has sat for a bit. On
>take off it makes the truck jerk uncontrollably.
BTDT!
I tried a "hot" coil from another supplier and immediately had rough
running. The manufacturer suggested I load it with a ballast resistor.
But I went back to the good ol' stock bosch coil and the misfire went away!
PS: I'm running the Magnecor 8.5mm wires and they came with a termination
which fits perfectly in the stock coil.
Doug A
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From: Gomes, David
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [D90] spark plug recommendation
>".....Does anyone have any recommendations as to what spark plug
>would give the best performance?....."
On the recommendation of a friend I once tested the resistance of spark
plugs. I bought one set of Champions and one set of Bosch Platinums (not
the +4). I found that the brand new Champions had resistance values that
varied all over the map. I don't remember the numbers, so maybe it's time
to repeat the test and document it better. But the Bosch platinum plugs
were all within about 40 ohms of each other. I think the base value was
near 10k ohms. Champions would vary from like 4k to 30k ohms among the 8
new plugs I had. The bosch ones were from say, 9990 to 10030 ohms.
I put each set of plugs and the Bosch plugs gave a smoother idle. The
Champions weren't really rough, it was just that you noticed when the
vibrations WEREN'T there. You know what I mean?
I'd say take your ohm meter with you to the auto parts store, and check
whatever brand you decide on. I used the resistance reading as a general
indicator of the repeatability of each company's production process (I know,
lots of you think this is unfair, to each his own) and have never been let
down by Bosch platinum plugs. My buddy who recommended I test in the first
place also found NGK plugs to be very repeatable. Use a little anti-seize
on the threads when you put them in, no matter what brand you use!
-Dave G.
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From: Doug Boehme[SMTP:DBoehme@PA.navisys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:35 AM
Subject: RE: [D90] Magnecor
Magnecor's website has a deal on the LR wires. For size, they recommend
the 7mm unless you are going to an electronic ignition system like the
Jacobs system in which case they recommend the 8.5mm. (better
shielding)
Douglas J. Boehme
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From: Robert D. Leggiero[SMTP:rdl@nomurany.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Magnecor
The (Jacobs - NOT sure about Magnecor - Ed.) wires come with the spark plug boots already on and sealed, same
as yours. Each plug boot also had a dab of some kind of lubricant
in each boot. Actualy, what you get is 4 long wires with plug boots
on both ends of each wire. You cut them somewhere in the center and
add the distributer male connectors and boots. They give you a tube of
the stuff used to seal the wires. You put it on the wire when you slip
the boot on and then run a bead around the boot edge. When it dries,
it's just like the plug boot side.
On a 94, half the stock wires enter the distributer with a
straight boot. The other half have a 90 deg boot. The Jacobs
kit comes with all 90 deg boots. You can get straight boots, but
I desided to go with all 90 deg boots. It was safer to make the
wires myself than to try and guess what the lengths would be with
the slight change in routing that was required.
Rob
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From: Brian Bonner[SMTP:enigma90@mindspring.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: RRO: Checking ignition timing
Its a pain. Get yourself some, either carpenters crayon in yellow or welders chalk in white. rub the marker into the timing grooves and accross the timing plate. Then by hitting it from an angle you will be able to see them real well when the light hits them.
--------
From: Shane Ballensky [mailto:roverhybrids@neteze.com]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Idler pulley repair
>Long story not-so-short, if anyone has any tips and tricks for the job of
repairing the idler assemblies, let me know. When I find out what the bearing
numbers are I'll post them here, as well as the D90 and coiler lists.
I recently did this on a 300tdi. Both idler pulleys used the same bearing that I
got at my local auto parts store.
Though they may not be the same the part number for the bearing(s) I got is:
203-FF This is for federal mogul brand
the number on the bearing is:
62003C3 and the both the old bearing and the new one had this same number.
The bearing were retained in the pulley by C-clips. These were not the type were
you could use the regular snap ring pliers on the holes but had an angled end
that i just used a screw driver to pry and pop out.
I can't remember using the press to remove the bearing so it must have been
fairly easy to remove. Probably a socket and your favorite hammer.
One of the pulleys in my application(300 tdi remember!) had reverse threads, so
you may want to give yourself a gear test to see which way the pulley spins
before getting out the cheater bar.
>Shane <roverhybrids@neteze.com>