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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 23:42:25 -0500
From: daitken@sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com (Douglas Aitken)
Subject: Re: [D90] I'm starting to upgrade suspension
At 09:18 PM 5/2/01 -0700, Ron wrote:
>I have 97 D90 SW completely stock. I do mostly light off-roading. I carry a
>roof rack with an mdo plywood as flooring. On trips my passengers include my
>wife and our two boys ages 9 and 2. When we do camping my roof rack is full
>with all kinds of gear and luggage plus two 5 gallon jerry cans(which I fill
>when we go in the trail). Inside, I carry our food, drinks and 6 gallons of
>water. I noticed the D90 suspension lower about an inch closer to the tires
>when fully loaded. By the way I also have running boards and 4 mud guards,
>stock bumper and LR bull bar. I plan to put a winch in the future. What
>suspension set-up is best for this kind of use? Thanks
For your type of usage, I would not do anything fancy. Just change out the
springs for OME and put in tougher shocks. As OME make shocks which
(presumably!) are valved to suit their springs, you could go the full OME
route. If you want to spend more money, you could try Bilstiens. For spring
type, you need to check how much you are loading the rig. Sounds like a
pretty full load, so prolly HD all round. But if you can make a calculation
of weight, give ARB a call and discuss with them: they will advise you the
best spring combo for your weight distribution (I am not going to risk any
recommendation, as OME have recently changed out all their springs and
there seems to be an ongoing discussion of what lifts what by how
much......) ;~)
Doug and Kim Aitken
'95 Red Defender 90 5-speed
'95 Aspen Silver Range Rover
ArtV70@aol.com adds:
I second that. I called them about two weeks ago (by Doug's suggestion as
well) and was very pleased with their willingness to discuss shop with a
novice. Chris Wood asked me very vehicle specific questions and then
discussed my options with me. He even went so far as to give me the number
of a fellow off-roader with a set up similar to the one I decided on. Really
great group of people.
BTW Doug, Rachel overheard me saying "spot on? " to myself and had to
translate. Thanks for the compliment! She always calls me a "cheeky bugger"
too - any clue what that is?
Art Vigil
'95 D90 #2620
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:44:36 -0700
From: Alan Ottley defender90@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [D90] New OME springs
I have 764's on the rear (I replaced the 762's because they were too stiff).
I have about a 2 inch lift. The 751's up front will soon be replaced with
764's too to see if I can get a more level stance on the old rov.
Alan
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From: John McMaster[SMTP:john@chiaroscuro.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: [D90] Anti sway bars
I have had longer (lifted about 2") stiffer OME springs on my 110 for nearly 2 years. It is much better handling on road and (after my first worried trial!) not any different off-road compared to factory ones.
john
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From: Richard Hills[SMTP:rhills@nmsu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] soft springs
> thinking of using range rover springs 150lbs/in fronts and 170 lbs/in for
> the rears.
I ran springs this soft early in my experimentation with the d90 suspension
(150 front - 170 rear). Way too soft - the front bottoms off-road, the
vehicle is very tipsy feeling on off cambers and front corner drop-offs, and
I had to constantly back down from obstacles due to near tip-over. This is
especially true if you have a lift. These obstacles are easily climbed with
stiffer springs and 4x4ing is much more secure feeling.
Rich Hills
Rich later added:
The stock springs (roughly 180 front and 225 in back or even 180 in back) work
well if you are not adding articulation or lifting your vehicle or hauls heavy
stuff. This is because the cg is lower, resulting in less moment arm between the
cg and the roll axis of the vehicle - resulting in less body roll. The stock
set-up has good articulation compared to other stock set-ups, but poor
articulation relative to what is needed for rock crawling. When articulation is
added through modifications to the shocks (either relocation or longer shocks),
then the extreme vehicle roll is now controlled more by the springs and less by
the limited motion of the shocks. 180 front and 225 back is a bit soft for hard
core stuff where you are near 30-35 degrees in off-camber and climbing very
steep but uneven rock ledges. One can go much stiffer in the springs, free up
the front suspension through a radius arm modification or 3-link, and still
easily ramp 1000. This leads to more control in those extreme rock crawling
situations. If you don't plan to do extreme stuff, don't plan to carry loads,
and don't lift the vehicle much over an inch, then stock front springs with a
bit softer rear springs (say 180-200 lbs) would work fine and would be more
comfortable (less back end kick) off road.
Rich
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From: gbrovers@aol.com[SMTP:gbrovers@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [D90] My D90 has a lean to one side...
Dave
Sided springs make some sense on RHD Rovers but are pointless on LHD
ones. OME's recomended procedure is to install the drivers side springs on
whatever side happens to the drivers side. The problem with this is that your
Rover will still lean - just to the opposite side! I started to match them up
for two reasons 1) as previously stated, its pointless on LHD Rovers. 2) I
got tired of getting phone calls from folks that had purchased them from me
and were complaining about how their Rover didn't sit level after
installation of their "new" suspension! I personally considered it a totally
legitimate complaint in spite of the fact that the factory allowable spring
height variation is 1 inch! (Thats not a misprint!). Somehow customers don't
find that particularly reassuring. Also you would be surprised at how many
people install new springs and then go out and measure them to make sure they
are level and telling them that the vehicle probably didn't sit level to
start with doesn't give them a warm fuzzy feeling either.
The difference in height between a DS and a PS spring is 10mm, so yes it
is quite possible that folks with identical springs i.e the same part #,
could have different height vehicles (but at least they will be level!).
Assuming I have stock I will send you whatever ones you want but not
surprisingly most folks want the slightly taller springs so I am sometimes
short of these. If you don't care or specify I usually send the PS springs in
an attempt to keep my inventory balanced. One advantage of the shorter
springs is you reduce the chances of incurring lift related problems such as
driveshaft vibrations and steering/braking issues related to changing the
castor angle.
One last point about OME stuff that no one mentioned - trim packers.
These are the urethane donuts that are installed on the top of the spring.
Most people think that they are an accessory to provide some additional lift
and can be used for that purpose. In reality they are what the name implies,
the were designed to allow you to "trim" the vehicle i.e. get it to sit
level! I find that matching springs in advance is a better way to insure that
you the customer is happy rather than using trim packers because it avoids
the added expense of purchasing them along with the cost of installing them
particulary if it is after the fact.
I don't mean to imply from any of this that there is any type of quality
issues with OME springs. Offering any type of aftermarket suspension is
tough. There are normal production variations in frames from the manufacturer
and also people "individualize" their rigs with other types of aftermarket
equipment, which can effect weight distribution on the suspension etc.
Bill
Great Basin Rovers
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From: Shane Ballensky[SMTP:roverme@sunset.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] How much lift do I have?
> I am hoping to get my new springs on tonight, and was wondering what I could
> measure to determine how much lift I have.
I measured my stock 94 d90. Length is from bottom of spring pad(the lip
that's just below the spring) to top of spring perch.
Rear 12 3/4"
front 11"
Shane
Dennis White[SMTP:dennis@whitebuilders.com] added:
Stock loaded spring height on a new 97SW is:
10-1/2" front,
12" rear
DW
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From: Robert Dassler[SMTP:roadsiderob@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] there's no such thing as a stupid question...
>Which end of the spring is up and which end is down? ie: one end of the
>spring has tighter coiling, while the other is more widely spaced.
Koly
The stock springs are installed with the tight coils to the top and whenever
we upgrade to OME, we put the tight coils to the top.
Rob
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:00:57 -0500
From: "Brian Bonner" d90@email.msn.com
Subject: [D90] OME springs
OK, just spent an hour on the phone talking to ARB again, and came up with the bottom line on their springs.
All the old numbers have been dropped. except interesting enough the 751's
Charles asked about MD front and rear springs.
As I said earlier there are no MD front springs, and never have been. Just
FRONT:
LD- 761's 30mm lift- for a stock D90 no bull bar or winch
HD- 751's 30mm lift- with ARB bumper and Winch
REAR:
LD-Dropped completely
MD-764's 45mm lift-with approx. 250lb load
HD-762's 45mm lift-with approx. 500lbs of load
VERY HD-763's 45mm lift-well over 500lbs of load(no real experience with
these springs. but linear rated to handle huge loads likely 1000lbs
All the springs went to larger diameter wire, and all but the 764's have gotten shorter in the rear springs by 40mm. Why? He does not know, but the medium duty is taller than the older MD's by 30mm free height and the load rating increased.
To answer Charles, you could surely use the MD 764's front and rear if you are going to have a Bumper and winch on the front. According to ARB most US applications who do not carry a constant load on road as well as offroad use the 751's front and 764 rear. Chris stated most people he wheels with that do expedition wheeling use the 764's rear because of the on road ride empty, and he has seen them load up a full roof rack and the back.
ARB they state are geared towards expedition wheeling and design their springs accordingly for heavy loads and ralley style driving. Rock crawlers are a very small percentage of wheelers so they do not cater to them.
Now as I said before and backed up by this phone call, ARB makes OME springs for SG with Greg's spec's. I think all the rock crawlers should consider buying springs from Greg at SG, this might bring down the cost. Wheelers like myself who do more expedition work than rock crawling will likely stick with OME
BTW whom ever stated the discrepancies in free height measurements between myself and Mr. Atkinson was correct. He received the passenger side free heights and myself the driver side which is 10mm higher. As for the load discrepancies I imagine someone was quoting lbs per square inch ratings on the springs and not load over GVW for the springs.
I hope this was helpful and does not offend anyone.
(ed. - This page on the DiscoWeb relates some of the old and new OME spring numbers. They are the same for D90s. )
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From: Dennis White[SMTP:dennis@whitebuilders.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Custom Spring Makers?
> Question: Does anyone in the group know someone who can make some custom
> springs? Preferably dual rate.
Mark Eisinger
Dendoff Springs Ltd
12045 Old Yale Road
Surrey, BC, Canada V3V 3X4
800 661 4205
FAX 604 580 3600
e-mail dendoff@axionet.com
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:16:28 -0500
From: Chris Velardi tchris@freewwweb.com
Subject: Re: [D90] Spring Retainers
Erik wrote:
> I run an OME HD setup and I just remover my sway bars, will this allow my
> wheel to drop to the point that I need spring retainers? If not when would
> I need spring ratainers?
Eric ,
You wont need "spring retainers " or cones or guides until you replace
your shocks with long travel shocks. Right now your socks will limit
your drop so the springs will stay in the stock retainers. With OME
heavy duty springs all around you should not need a spacer in front. To
much of a front list will throw off your steering camber. I personally
would rather have the nose level to down a hair than elevated above the
rear lift.
Chris "V"
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From: Jon Hudson[SMTP:dakar4x4@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: SG Spring Retainers
Check out :-
http://www.dakar4x4.freeserve.co.uk/mods/retainrs/retainrs.htmfor a DIY spring retainer!
Cheers & Happy Holidays everyone!
Jon
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From: Q[SMTP:q@d-90.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [D90] Spacers?
Sorry, I get so used to talking shop...
Rockware makes aluminum spacers that go under the lower spring perch that
come in any size you want for the rear in 1/4" increments.
In the front, you have to have a hole for the shock to fit through. Because
of the body of the shock, you cannot go with more than a 1/2" spacer. I
needed around 3/4" up front, so I solved the problem by going with an Old
Man Emu polyurethane spacer.
You can get these in 10mm and 5mm sizes and they go between the spring and
the perch either on the top or bottom. They have the added bonus of
quieting spring rattle, but will wear out and settle unlike the aluminum
spacers.
You can purchase the poly spacers from Rover Accessories, and the spacers
from (of course) Rockware. Both vendors can be found in the 'specials'
section of www.d-90.com
-Q
1995 Red Defender 90 #2069
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From: GerberBaby@aol.com[SMTP:GerberBaby@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [D90] Brit Pac Air Lift springbags
I have the air-lift set up British Pacific sells (inflatable air bladders
inside rear springs).
They do limit articulation somewhat, even when deflated. The recommendation
is never to fully deflate them, though, to prevent damage from getting
pinched between spring coils.
The bags are NOT easily removed. They are a fairly tight fit (I used a lot
of WD-40 to get mine in).
Trevor Tarr
'97 D90 ST