another one bites the dust--110

[evilfij]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31849&item=2464829842

How about changing out the cooler lines!

Ron

[dave_lucas]

They have 3 110's that are toasty on their site

As well as several whopped 90's

http://www.maxcar.net/

[Jase]

I wonder if all 3 are cooked due to power steering hose failures?

LR changed my hoses under warranty and they did not route the return hose in the exact same fashion. They re-installed it angled a few more degrees toward the engine. The rubber section of the hose was rubbed by the serpentine belt and failed. I'm not sure of the belt setup on the 3.9 but I wonder if Rover techs were burning up the first Defenders they saw. 3/500 is high.

[mhansen]

There is a burned 110 at Bluff City Motors in Memphis that I saw a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe I'll buy a bigger fire extinguisher!!!!!!!!!

Does anyone know if the D-90's are burning up too?

[kellymoe]

When I had my 90 I burst a oil cooler line on while pulling a grade. Pulled over right away turned off the engine and did not open the hood so it would not get more O2 to feed the fire if there was one. Just alot of oil, no fire.

[pcarey]

Yeah, I still haven't mounted my extinguisher. I think I'll get to that right soon.

My brother has a '68 Mustang that has had 3 small fires from PS hoses. Seems they routed it too close to the engine as well.

pwc

[JimC]

I burst and oil cooler line last fall, and a small fire did start from oil squirting onto the mainfold. My wife was driving and fortunately she turned the motor off immediately - which both saved the engine and stopped squiting oil onto the manifold. The fire burned out very quickly, but not before scaring everyone else nearby.

[Tawayama]

Man, I tell you those engine fires are scary. I had my wife's LWB in Northern Utah over Christmas and it started an oil cooler leak right onto the exhaust manifold and cat. converter.

I knew I couldn't fix it right then, and I knew I didn't want to drive the truck, so I got a ride to where I had the CrewCab parked (also in Utah at the time), rented a flat-bed trailer, loaded the LWB onto it and towed it back to Vegas.

Hell of a trip, but I definitely didn't want to run the risk of burning it up on the freeway.

Those lines suck. I had new ones made by the Aeroquip dealer here in town. Bombproof and now are rebuildable.

:)

[TwisteD90]

I've heard that 2 94 D90's had the same problem where they caught on fire :(

So, is there anyone that offers SS hoses or something good in this market? I really don't want my 90 to catch on fire oneday.

[kellymoe]

Michael,
Did you use your original fittings? Or are they new lines and fittings?

[Tawayama]

Yousef,

When your trucks hoses get a little old/cracked/leaking, just take them off, find a local 'hoser' (shop specializing in hydraulic hoses), and have them make you new ones.

They'll be made out of better material, and will fit perfectly.

I wouldn't specifically go looking for SS hoses, if you have the existing hoses rebuilt you'll be fine.

Don't know of any SS hose manufacturers BTW, so I can't even point you in the general direction.

Cost me about $45 to have both hoses rebuilt.

[Doug]

I replaced the trans cooler hoses and power steering hoses, as a precaution, at about 90K miles. Will probably do so every 45K from now on. I've also heard of the hose fittings themselves giving it up. This doesn't just happen to Land Rovers.

I placed fire extinguishers on both sides of truck, secured to the roll cage so they are clearly visible inside and outside, and can even be accessed by breaking the windows if necessary.

Doug

[kellymoe]

Doug,

How was Frazier Park. Wish I could have made it.

[Doug]

Kevin,

Great trip. We had about 25 landies, and a surpise contingent of 5 or 6 tag-a-long Israeli jeepers (friends of one of SCLR's members). This was a novice trip, although we did manage to find the 'mysterious' Badlands Corridor 109 after the novice runs were completed!

About 10 of us ran the corridor up into Dry Canyon, lots of thick wet sand, boulders and rock fields, topped by a twisty narrow wash complete with a full size tree from the recent rains. A couple of the discos lost some of their plastic, and we pulled a couple up out of the wash in the end, about 5:30PM at that point.

All in all a good, fun day and good company. Hope to see you on the trails soon.

Doug

[evilfij]

"3/500 is high"

LOL, I would guess at least 10 times that number.

[Tawayama]

Kevin,

Sorry I missed your question.

They cut off the original outer sleeve of the original fitting, just used the threaded portion and the inner tube (IIRC...).

[kellymoe]

Mike,
Thanks I will have to look someone up local and have that done.

[TwisteD90]

I might just do that.
Thanks Michael :)

[pangaea]

Yousef,

Contact me offline. I just started doing business with a guy in Boulder who rebuilds starters, alternators, etc. Anyway, he builds some super bombproof hoses. I'll put you in touch with him, if you want to swap out your stuff...

[Doug]

Well it happened. Driving on the blvd, suddenly smoke comes gushing out the dash vents. Engines dies almost simultaneously. Stop, pull hood release, jump out, grab extinguihser, rush to hood (billowing smoke), open, 8 inch flames on passenger side coming up from bottom of header. Empty extinghisher -- still small flames at bottom of engine. Rush around get extinghisher #2 and spray from underneath. Out.

Won't be able to assess the cause til tomorrow, but it was engine oil -- all over the inside of the engine bay, under the hood, and the engine sump almost empty. I got the fire out in time to prevent body damage. There will be wiring and vacuum issues to solve, and that's all if I'm lucky. Pray to the Rover gods for me tonight.

Amen for knowing 1) the drill and 2) having TWO extinguishers.

More as news becomes available.

DW

[Joe P]

Doug,

Sorry to hear that. I will pray to the Rover God's for you. Time for me to get two fire extinguishers.

Joe

[wicks]

Glad you bought me that fire extinguisher!!! I think since it is a nice sized one it prolly has enough good karma in it to kill a similar fire?

[Doug]

That's a good one. Big, and it's haylon. My two replacements will be haylon. I only had to use maybe 1/4 of the 2nd one to snuff the final flames.

Girots Garage has some nice Haylons in the catalogue.....

[dmarchand]

Sorry to hear Doug. That is scary shit. I would recommend you upgrade to a 2.8 powerstroke...:cool:

And someone happens to be selling one on LRX:

HS 2.8 TGV diesel Engine New in Crate
HS 2.8 TGV diesel engine complete new in crate , I bought with the intention of swapping to a diesel, but times have changed($5600.00)
Jeromy Landers.
Beaumont, Texas, United States of America - 21 February 2004


Everybody loves a diesel 110 :grin

[Eric Siepmann]

That's the same guy who was trying to sell the 5.2 ECR interceptor engine. I wonder what happened? must have run of out cash for the swap.

$5,600? That's a tasty price for that engine. I don't think you can get a 4.6 for that.

EwS

[dmarchand]

Actually, $5600 is a bit high for that engine. I would expect it to be around $4600. However the exchange rates these days aren't favroable so maybe he was schlepped.

You can definitely get a 4.6 for less. You just have to ask around. The 4.6 price has dropped quite a bit lately, and the 4.0 price is down right dirt cheap.

[TDI Guy]

How Nice would that 2.8 be though in that 110 of yours!!:guns :guns

I just picked up a 2.0 Perkins Prima for a series truck the other day. This should be fun also.

[Eric Siepmann]

I always thought the deisels were more expensive. The turnkey itself is around 4500? That's not bad at all. I was researching the 2.8 yesterday and the kit from MD Engineering looks very promising. Choices choices choices.

Randy, what type of series are you running? I am thinking of taking the plunge.

EwS

[Tawayama]

Wow, what crappy luck.

Well, we all know we're on borrowed time with those lines. I just helped a friend of mine here in Vegas replace his high pressure power steering line yesterday. He popped the hood and turned the wheel back and forth so I could see which hose was leaking. There was a 1/4 inch hole rubbed into the line that oil was SPRAYING out onto the block and manifold.

It's just a matter of time before all Land Rovers catch fire because of those hoses.

BTW, he took it off, took it to the local Aeroquip dealer and had it rebuilt in 30 minutes with aeroquip fittings and line for $39.

Had it back in by lunch time.

Keep us updated on the engine fire saga Doug. Hopefully your quick thinking saved you some major work.

Yikes!

[Doug]

Thanks all. Here's the latest:

Allstate will pay 100% of damage, providing of course that they don't total it, which is doubtful since the fire was controlled. Rent car too, but only $20 a day.

The AC/Heat box is melted pretty badly. Lots of exposed wiring and melted vacuum lines. Firewall paint is gone at the footwell.

One of the oil cooler lines exploded. Just ordered up a set of braided ones from Rover Accessories, on sale for $215 a set. Charles said that all Defenders, and some Discos and RRs have the same fault and can blow up at anytime, especially if the truck has seen a lot of hot weather driving. I know this might be overpaying, but I just don't have the time (especially now) to run around and get custom ones made..

I think the engine is okay, but have to make sure.

More as it develops.

DW

[kellymoe]

Doug,

Saw your post on LRX forum. Sorry to hear about your truck. I would also agree with the gentleman on LRX not to open your hood during a fire. It does fuel the flames with more O2. I have put out hundreds of car fires in LA and we always attack from underneath until the bulk of the fire is out and then open the hood. If the fire reaches through the fire wall and burns the hood release I just use a pair of pliars or channel locks to grab the cable to release the hood. If that fails it is rotary saw time on the hood. Halon and dry chem extinguishers are great. Quick knock down, but do not eliminate the heat. In a perfect world on would knock down the bulk of the fire with halon or chem and follow it up quickly with a water extinguisher to cool the area. Thats in a perfect world. I know a pressurized water extinguisher is not practical but it is something to think about.
Will you still be doing the Nevada Trophy?

[kellymoe]

Doug,

From reading your previous posts it sounds like you kept the fire to a minimum by planing ahead and acting quickly. Having two extinguishers is a great idea. I always consider the worst case senerio and act with that in mind. When my oil line burst on the I-5 my first concern was my son who was in a child seat up front.
I did not have an extinguisher, I had just bought the D90 a few days before and had not bought an extinguisher for it. That wont happen again. Pulled over, engine off, left the hood down. I was lucky that it did not have time to ignite, just had to buy new oil lines and clean the engine.

My big question is if this is such a common problem why does LRNA not recall these lines?

[nickt]

On a related note, Kez on the LRE forum posted this link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3524070.stm

About 250,000 Land Rovers built at the company's Solihull plant have been recalled after defects were found.

Cheers,
Nick.

[Doug]

Still plan on competing in NVTR, Kevin! How could I miss that? ;)

Looks like the insurance will cover the cost of the repair, now I just need to get it organized and reliably completed.

Thanks for the advice -- didn't even think of the air flow caused by raising the hood or of cooling the area down after the fire. Life is a learning process...

Thanks for your thoughts all.

Doug

[castlerock4x4]

My d110 popped a oil cooler line last fall and I built a new one with a special high temp and pressure steel mesh core hose from a local hydraulic tracktor shop, much much more durable than the OEM crap... Used the original fittings which have dilated fitted ends, the most difficult part is finding the right shop that can crimp the hose end clamps... cost ~ $25.00 including the hose. One week after that, the other one let go too!. Rebuilt it also and since then no problems. The after market stuff and LR original cost is nothing short of a rape job.

[evilfij]

Yes, it is an astronomically high percentage of 110s. If you did not know of the issue and carry a fire extinguisher (only a rover owner could carry a fire extinguisher, EXPECT to use it, and still keep the vehicle LOL) yours would be another one on the list.

On a side note, I have never seen it on a D90, I am sure it has happened but I think the 110s have a different design.

Ron

[kellymoe]

s

[kellymoe]

Mine was a 94 D90. Dont no if this had anything to do with it but I bought the D90 out of a tow yard and it had sat there for over a year and half without running. I am sure the lines were cracked and weathered from sitting in the yard that long but I am also inclined to think they are just cheap ass lines.

[397D110]

WELL, my high pressure oil line let go about a month ago about 100 feet from my driveway. It emptied itself in 1 seconds the oil pressure dropped and the oil sprayed over the cats. losts of smoke no fire, replaced the lines, also replaced the master cylinder the rear brake lines the rusted thru, the clutch cylinders and the lines. Been a real fun 3 months. did not know of this problem. I will tell my customers.

[evilfij]

Very bad on the 110s Dale, have seen it on some older RRCs but there is something about the way they were routed on the 110 that makes them particualrly susceptable.

Ron

[Doug]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but don't forget that the 110s are the oldest Defender V8's in the USA. Age is the primary reason for failure of these lines.

UPDATE: Allstate is going to do a total repair on the truck, including a re-spray of the engine bay, and all new parts as needed. What they won't cover is the cost of the lines which caused the fire. Allstate claims the lines should have been replaced as part of routine maintenance. In fact, that's the truth, no? ;)

Doug

[c2sox]

Doug,

Are you changing the whole line or just the hoses?
Looks like I'll be changing my hoses now and then some.

Al

[Doug]

The lines -- the oil lines/hoses are short, run along the side of the engine. I've replaced my tranny cooler lines and hoses, and power steering hoses as well. The first fires I heard about were caused by these latter hoses, so that's what I upgraded. My mistake to not do all three types. My new steering hoses are not stainless braid, but they are an upgrade from stock. Tranny's are just LR stock replacements. Note that tranny and steering fluids ignite much easier than motor oil and burn faster and hotter.

Doug

[Doug]

Pulled the engine today. Interesting to see how the tranny tunnel took quite a bit of the fire -- makes sense since the fire was burning while the truck was in motion. Going to drop the tranny and see how much damage occurred in there....

[Eric Siepmann]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2469695271&category=31849

Good Advice Doug! This one is on fire sale becasue of a fire due power steering hose failure.

EwS

[dmarchand]

If you go to the seller's website, they have a total of three 110's that are crispy.

Go figure....

Doug, we'll call you Lil' Crispy from now on.

[Ragland]

Before you do a final settlement, you may want to see if any burn smell is caught within the HVAC system. I know you can't run the truck right now, but the material compositions burned in vehicle fire can leave a nasty residual odor.

[Buckon37s]

Is it just me or are the prices on that site ludicrusly (sp) high?

[Doug]

We're switching out the entire HVAC on the engine side. Parts will have to be shipped from the UK so this is going to take some time. Thus, looks like we'll be driving Jason's LWB in the NVTR this year along with Wick's 90.

BTW, April 1 is the deadline for early registration. There may be cash awards for 1st and 2nd this year!

Doug