300 TDi blowing coolant out of overflow bottle

[cdb]

Driving along a week or so ago the heater stopped putting out heat and then the temp gauge moved up quickly to 210 - 220 degrees. I would stop and cool it for few minutes a it might be fine (180 degrees) for a short time and then the temp gauge again jumped up to 220 degrees. But it might suddenly quickly drop to 180 degrees again.
Looking under the hood I could see coolant everywhere, but when I used my infrared temperature gauge on various hoses, the block, the heads, and the radiator the temperatures were all below 150 degrees and some were under 100 degrees.
Took it to a local mechanic and they replaced the thermostat since they were reading different temperatures on either side of it and also the overflow reservoir cap since it appeared to stick open. I picked it up tonight and it ran great for about 15 minutes and then the same thing - no heat from the heater, the temp gauge jumping to 220 to 250 and coolant everywhere. I had to use vise-grips to remove the overflow cap and coolant sprayed everywhere but it was lukewarm.
My thought is an air bubble. How do I burp 300 TDi radiator hoses?
Any other thoughts? Oh yes, the block and heads were 150 to 192 degrees and the radiator temperature ranged from the 60s up to about 118 degrees.

Clark

[junkyddog11]

Had one recently exibit the same symptoms (actually a 2.8TGV but the same thing sort of). Turned out to be a failed head gasket, pressurizing coolant at higher rpms and creating "air" pocket. No milky oil or anything just exhaust in the coolant.

[cdb]

Thanks Matt....

Is there any way to tell without using a "sniffer" if I have a blown head gasket when it is not showing in the oil or water?

Clark

[TDI Guy]

Does the coolant look contaminated? If the air was bled out of the system and now it has pressure, I would also go with the head gasket.. how many miles on it?

[cdb]

Randy, the motor has, supposedly, about 38,000 miles. They pressure checked it and discovered the pressure relief valve in the cap was stuck open and I assume they bled the system of air bubbles but they are closed until Wednesday. Luckily I'm towing it to RoverHybrids on Thursday for an A/C and Underdrive installation so I guess I can add this to Shane's job jar.
The more I think about it, the more a head gasket makes sense since it runs fine until the motor gets warm.

Clark

[Michael]

compression tests of cylinders will show a blown head gasket.

maybe completely drain the coolant and then check for contamination. the coolant in radiator and header tank may not show contamination due to lack of circulation, but the stuff out of the block will. Then do a full re-fill of new coolant if all was clean - have all top plugs/caps open and squeeze hoses a few times during the process. If like 2.8, will take over 10 liters. Run engine and immediately loosen plug on thermostat housing - let overflow until airbubbles gone then re-tighten.

[headdamage]

I had a similar situation with a 2.5na diesel and it got worse over a few weeks. In the end the engine would over heat on the temp gauge after just a few miles on the hwy but the water spurting out of the over flow was only warm. I ended up taking the water pump off out of frustration and discovered that the impeller had parted ways with the shaft. Replacing the water pump fixed the problem.

[cdb]

Andrew, that is interesting. We replaced the waterpump about 2,000 miles ago as a matter of course when Shane was setting up the 300 TDi conversion. Maybe we got a bad one.
I'm taking it South to Roverhybrids next week and he'll check the head gasket and water pump. Thanks for the advice.
Thanks Michael too for the diagnosis procedure and how to bleed the TDi hoses.

Clark

[andyrad]

Did we ever get a final diagnosis on this one? I overheated the engine a few weeks back with a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator, the only way to get some heat in the winter and I forgot to remove it when I went camping. Major coolant blasting out the overflow tank and now I have the same symptoms. I don't really want to start taking everything apart if I can pinpoint the problem. I've done the proper refill procedure and it took over 6 litres, and it still did it again. Higher rpms would bring it on faster.

[Overlander]

Get a sniffer kit. It's only like $50 from NAPA and can easily help rule in or out the head gasket, which is nice before throwing parts at a problem. There's a really good video showing how it's done on youtube on a 300 tdi.

I'm starting to accumulate all the handy diagnostic equipment. I'm so done with the inconsistency of different local mechanics coming up with their own theories of what's wrong, with no resolution. one fault, 3 mechanics, 3 different failing parts on your engine. Especially with these tdi's, they are so relatively simple to work on. you just don't need much specialty equipment, just a garage and a good machine shop!

[John_Karlsson]

I had similar symptoms with my 200Tdi. I bought a sniffer, but it gave negative results. What finally convinced me the head gasket had failed was the stream of bubbles bubbling up into the coolant reservoir.

[CDNRover]

2.5 Diesel Turbo did that as well.. The expansion tank was overflowing coolant. I did a test with some liquid (I don't know if it's the "sniffer" one that some lad mentioned earlier). It colors the coolant if exhaust gas gets in the coolant.. Finally got a new head gasket..

[junkyddog11]

Get a sniffer kit. It's only like $50 from NAPA and can easily help rule in or out the head gasket, which is nice before throwing parts at a problem. There's a really good video showing how it's done on youtube on a 300 tdi.

I'm starting to accumulate all the handy diagnostic equipment. I'm so done with the inconsistency of different local mechanics coming up with their own theories of what's wrong, with no resolution. one fault, 3 mechanics, 3 different failing parts on your engine. Especially with these tdi's, they are so relatively simple to work on. you just don't need much specialty equipment, just a garage and a good machine shop!

That's nice. There are plenty of good mechanics out there and they are no harder to find than a good machine shop.
Personally I am "so done" with fixing things that some owners have tried......generally with *good* advice form the internet......and failed, and not said anything about it and done nothing but cost themselves a pile of $$ and me a big fawkin waste of time.
That *sniffer* kit that NAPA sells will only give good results some of the time and I have had plenty of combustion gas leaks/ excessive coolant pressure (not necessarily head gaskets) that *sniffing* in this manner has not picked up.
I'd totally agree that these are simple things to work on and I strongly encourage owner participation. As a person who has 30plus years of working on engines/vehicles and well over 150k invested in *handy* equipment, not to mention the business that operates it, I do take offense at your take on mechanics.

[kevkon]

Put it in perspective, the collective knowlege base of this forum based on experience with a specific vehicle far exceeds that of 90% of the professional mechanics out there. Yet look at the range of answers to any given problem. Fault diagnosis is one of the toughest things a mechanic must do when there is no computer to do it for you.
On top of that, there are the realities of running a business. On my own vehicles, I can spend all of the time I want to without concern about the hourly rate.

[Overlander]

That's nice. There are plenty of good mechanics out there and they are no harder to find than a good machine shop.
Personally I am "so done" with fixing things that some owners have tried......generally with *good* advice form the internet......and failed, and not said anything about it and done nothing but cost themselves a pile of $$ and me a big fawkin waste of time.
That *sniffer* kit that NAPA sells will only give good results some of the time and I have had plenty of combustion gas leaks/ excessive coolant pressure (not necessarily head gaskets) that *sniffing* in this manner has not picked up.
I'd totally agree that these are simple things to work on and I strongly encourage owner participation. As a person who has 30plus years of working on engines/vehicles and well over 150k invested in *handy* equipment, not to mention the business that operates it, I do take offense at your take on mechanics.

Point well taken, and my apologies. I should have disclaimed that I was referring to chain auto shops (meineke, firestone, etc.) that have no experience with uncommon vehicles but have no problem guessing and charging me for the guess. Competent and experienced independent Rover shops are completely out of scope of what I meant, and I really wish there were some around here in Charlotte. I can't even find a good local shop that knows diesels well enough to work on one they haven't seen before. I just had a shop charge me $800 in labor to replace my turbo, only to have the new one fail again 5 months later. They didn't even troubleshoot what might have been the root cause of the failure. A little research on my part later, and a few calls to turbo specialists and the UK, and now I know that the shop that did my work didn't even do some basic things that would be expected for a turbo replacement.

[junkyddog11]

True, and you did have a point and I may have been a little touchy (for which I also apologize) after struggling all week with owner repairs. I really do encourage owner participation , and this site is a great resource......even to twats like me that think they know everything.:)
There is no heavy truck shop around that knows Internationals? That is the source for good support pretty much anywhere for these motors. They know diesels and they know turbos. They can generally get parts for 2.8's.

[jaherring]

Likely blown head gasket. Mine had one which only overpressurized when under boost - it's *difficult* to see happen in a test environment.

Because the sniffer/gas tester didn't find any problem with the head at idle I tried all kinds of things and wasted a lot of money/time before a better shop was able to diagnose the head gasket problem. Now it's got a new head gasket and no more overheating.

A stuck thermostat could cause an overpressure situation as well (as could a slipping impeller on the water pump), but if your temp is not overheating yet you are pressurizing the cooling system that much I'd say head gasket.