Land Rover World

[mulesnx]

Land Rover World is starting a new web site and a forum here (http://www.landroverworld.org/forums/) Check it out and sign up early!

Also you can submit pics of your ride to pictures@landroverworld.org!

[chrisvonc]

I dont mind the announcement once here but I dont care for the multiple cross postings in the other sections as well. Once is enough.

[mulesnx]

sorry. You can delete any of the other posts...

[chrisvonc]

No problem Sam. The new forum looks nice.

[Buckon37s]

Did anyone else get this? Strange part is that I don't have my trucks picture on the internet except for 1 tech discussion. Kinda struck me as odd.


Dear Land Rover Owner,



We have spotted your Land Rover pictures on the internet and were wondering if you would like them to appear in the new Land Rover World Web Page. If you are interested in being published on our new web page, please send between 1 and 20 pictures to pictures@landroverworld.org. Be sure to include your name, your location, your vehicle, and a list of modifications if any.



If you have any questions, please email us at questions@landroverworld.org. Our new web page is not functional right now but will be up before the end of March. However, the bulletin board is fully functional as of today. Please sign up here if you are interested in being part in the fastest growing Land Rover community.



Thank you,



Land Rover World

[Mike Hippert]

Nope and there pics of my 90 scattered all over, you must be on someones mailing list.

[dmarchand]

Maybe Sam can answer some questions....

Honestly though. Do we really need another BBS? :stick

Between Pirate, D-90, D-ho-web, RoversNorth and the LR Enthusiast BBS's, I'm tapped.

[Tawayama]

I'm embarassed to admit that I fell for it. Signed up and everything.

I agree that there are probably too many BBS's. I don't visit RN. I lurk on D-web, I don't go to the D90 Yahoo group but once in a blue-moon. Pirate I spend WAY too much time on. I've unsubscribed to all of the LR mailing lists (except mendo-recce), so that has helped.

I just had a discussion today about how I monitor too many BBS's. You'd think I had nothing better to do.

There is one BBS that I recently found that I really like. Super small group of maybe 10 or so that basically are the core contributors, but their emphasis is on desert and vehicle dependant travel. They come from all makes of vehicles, so it's not so Rover-centric (a good thing IMO).

4wdtrips.net (www.4wdtrips.net/forum/)

You might want to poke in and wander around to see if it fits what you'd like to see. I know I'll probably spend much more time there than Pirate anymore. I am seeing my post count there go too high to admit.

Anyway, each board has it's own flavor for sure. Kind of good...kind of bad if you're trying to curtail your internet surfing.

[DJ Menasco]

It wasn't me! :sneaky Just kidding Dave. Seriously, aren't some pictures of your D90 on Pirate?

DJ

[chrisvonc]

I hear ya Michael, at one point I think I had 25+ Yahoo groups I was a member of or owned. Got it down to under 10 now and with the exception of daily digest from the D90 Yahoo group, I just check them via the web when I can.

[Buckon37s]

Seriously, aren't some pictures of your D90 on Pirate?

Yeah, I have one on pirate, that was the tech discussion I mentioned. I guess that must have been where this came from. I know a few boys over there that would be pissy if they post a pic over there and then get solicited like this. Doesn't bother me, just kinda odd.

[mulesnx]

Hi everyone...

I am suprised at how much fuss I have caused. A few of us are starting a website, out of our own pockets, and our own time. I have seen some cool pictures around the web of devoted Land Rover owners like myself. Yes, I have emailed them asking for pics of their rigs. Is this really spam? Sorry if that was nuisance, but we are just really excited about putting your pictures up on our website. Would it have helped if we sent each email with a little different context? Does it matter that we saved hours by copying and pasting?

Also, why are people saying I'm embarassed to admit that I fell for it. Signed up and everything ?

What exactly did you fall for? Was it signing up on one too many forums? Then don't post. Is it really that big of a deal? Is one more forum going hurt anyone?

Lastly, what is the big deal about using the name landroverworld.org? We are not selling a thing on our site, nor have any advertisements! We are reaping no benefits from the name other than the satisfaction of owning and being actively involved with our Land Rovers. I just don't get all of the fuss . . .

[Ragland]

Sounds like we have some candidates for a yet named, but financially exploitable, internet-forum-stress-disorder.

[Eric Siepmann]

Lastly, what is the big deal about using the name landroverworld.org?

I Guess I'll ask. Are you associated with Land Rover World, the magazine? If not, that may be something to consider. They may or may not take to kindly to a group associating with their brand, either willfully or not. My assumption is that your not intentionally trying to draw hits with the name and the potential that some may perceive a connection to the mag. That would be extremely foolhardy to say the least.

FWIW,

EwS

[Tawayama]

Originally posted by mulesnx
Is this really spam?

YES!!!! (although I myself didn't recieve said SPAM).

Originally posted by mulesnx
Also, why are people saying...

"I'm embarassed to admit that I fell for it. Signed up and everything"

What exactly did you fall for? Was it signing up on one too many forums? Then don't post. Is it really that big of a deal? Is one more forum going hurt anyone?

Actually, I don't think "people" are saying that, I think it was only one person so far. Me. Oh, and you'll notice my post count is at 1. It won't go higher. And yeah, 'one more forum' effectively dilutes where we go to meet and say hi to our LR bretheren. True, a free market society encourages people to go out on a limb and open their own place, so to speak. I hope those that go to your site enjoy it and find comraderie with others.

Originally posted by mulesnx
Lastly, what is the big deal about using the name landroverworld.org? We are not selling a thing on our site, nor have any advertisements! We are reaping no benefits from the name other than the satisfaction of owning and being actively involved with our Land Rovers. I just don't get all of the fuss . . .

Well, I think Eric pretty much hit the nail on the head. By you using an established industry trademark (i.e. LandRover World), you immediately draw a connection to the magazine and website which uses that name. This is exactly the reason why trademark laws exist.

IT DOES NOT MATTER that you are not selling anything nor have any advertisements. Trust me. Land Rover does NOT take kindly to it's logos, and names which they pay heavily to trademark and protect, being misused or used without consent. Our club in Portland/Seattle had to lobby LR to be able to use the 'zig-zag' portion of their logo. I can only imagine how quickly you'll get a letter from Land Rover corporate. Something along the line of 'Cease and Desist'.

I have no beef with you 'reaping the benefits and satisfaction of owning and being actively involved with your Land Rovers'. Quite the contrary. I support and encourage it. I just felt that the website is a bit misleading, and it really is something you ought to reconsider.

I'll sit back, grab some popcorn and watch how this all plays out. I won't be proactive or a 'whistle-blower' to LR. I know they have people that already do that.

Enjoy the spotlight while it lasts.

[mulesnx]

I think I will also sit back and continue what I am doing until Land Rover comes to me personally. When they do, and when they inform me on which law I am breaking and why and how I am breaking it, then I will happily comply. But until then, I wil "Enjoy the spotlight . . ."

Or I will wait for the spotlight . . . since I have not seen one yet, and since there are only a handful of people having fun on www.landroverworld.org.

Take care Mike.

[dmarchand]

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Sam?

[chrisvonc]

Sam, personally I see nothing wrong with anyone opening another enthusiast site and hope it works out for you. What some of the issues that people are having problems with are:

- It appears that you gathered email address from sites and then mass mailed out a standard email in a short amount of time to a huge amount of people.

- The email you sent out was worded with "sales pitch" type presentation. For example you end your email with "Please sign up here if you are interested in being part in the fastest growing Land Rover community." but yet the site had (and still doesn't last I checked) no working sections except the front page and the forum which only opened yesterday. There certainly is no basis or backing to make the statement that its the fastest growing site when in fact there is just about nothing there, so people pick up on that and start to think sales pitch.
(Did that make sense?)

- The name is mis-leading on a few levels. First and most notably, you have chosen a name that is globally associated with an highly established publication, "Land Rover World". I have to admit, when I first read your email, I assumed it was from them opening a new forum and didn't think anything of it until I started hearing of other people getting them as well.

- Secondly, concern is that Ford owns LANDROVERWORLD.COM so they already have ground to come after you. Its the same a Microsoft going after people with sites too close to their own name, and winning those in court amazingly. While LR has been pretty cool with enthusiast sites, who knows what Ford will do with site with too close of a trademark name. A good example of this would be to try and go register a domain with "Microsoft" or "Master-Card" in it. You'll have papers served to you practically before your domain name is resolving.

[Glenn_Guinto]

Originally posted by Tawayama
Trust me. Land Rover does NOT take kindly to it's logos, and names which they pay heavily to trademark and protect, being misused or used without consent.

I'm sure a lot of people here have bought from or came across Nathan from what was then Discount Rovers. What Michael said above is exactly the reason why he is now Discount British Parts. Just a testimony on how LR/Ford is protective of it's trademarks.

***Edit***

Oh and what Chris said above too.... :)

[Tawayama]

Remember the Thom McCann "Land Rover" boots? They didn't last long either.

[tbmcneill]

.... &, why, technically, "Rover Tracks" is no longer Rover Tracks, but, instead, RT Designs ... and had to do away with our oval logo.
T

[mulesnx]

Guys, I appreciate all of the comments. I have been considering changing the site name (and for sure the logo). Question: Ford owns www.landroverworld.com? Where is the site? It never shows up on my browser.

Chris, as far as mass emailing, I am not much good at that. I emailed every one individually, which took me quite a while. Anyone can check the properties and see where the emails came from and who they were sent to. I guess it is still spam, so I am sorry to anyone who received any emails. I think you are good guy, and have some very valid points. I just wonder why all of the hype over a enthusiast's web page.

Only time will tell if Land Rover busts me...

[chrisvonc]

Sam, you can always check domain availability or ownership by running a "WHOIS" search on Network Solutions page. WHOIS is a tool that tells you who owns a domain name. http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml

Remember, just because it is not an active website doesn't mean someone doesn't already owns it. Many companies will use only the .com extension but will register all the other available domain extensions and either do nothing with them or simply park them under the .com site providing they are available.

[Tawayama]

Originally posted by mulesnx
Guys, I appreciate all of the comments.

BULLSHIT.

You don't appreciate the comments. You come out being very defensive, take an 'I'll just sit back and wait' posture, and ban me w/out any explanation.

If you're going to ban me, then you ought to at least remove my profile and my singular (1) post.

[Eric Siepmann]

Sam,

You seem to be having trouble comprehending that large corporate entities can and do move quickly in defense of their brands.

Add to the fact that you foolishly admit your infringement of copyrights on a public BBS on the internet, the fact that you seem not to care that you are infringing on other's rights, and have a very foolish retort of I'll wait and see. Not a good image to project at all.

It's not time will tell, but when. I mean the more people you upset on the internet the greater chance of someone ratting you out. My perception is that you are very arrogant, foolish, and stupid. You feigned ignorance of copyright law is ridculous. And no defense.

I hope LRNA and the true Land Rover World, the publication, come knocking on your door sooner rather than later and shut you down.

EwS

[Tawayama]

Originally posted by Eric Siepmann
Add to the fact that you foolishly admit your infringement of copyrights on a public BBS on the internet, the fact that you seem not to care that you are infringing on other's rights, and have a very foolish retort of I'll wait and see. Not a good image to project at all.

Eric,

One of the reasons that this is particularly interesting to me is the fact that I have been involved in a 'legal discussion' with a nationally known company about copyright infringement of my own images.

Arrogance, denial and feigned ignorance have been their defense for nearly 2 years now. What they are starting to realize is that copyright and trademark laws actually do have teeth. This case, if awarded standard statutory fines, could rise to the $750,000 mark.

FWIW, in case mulesnx is monitoring this, federal judges are required by law to award $150,000 for EACH CASE of copyright infringement. Penalties are higher when willful negligence is involved.

A single case of copyright infringement could consist of each unique image placement. For example, if I had Land Rover's logo on a page of my website and was using it as my own work, that would call for statutory damages of $150,000. If I had it on EVERY page of my website, each page is considered an individual use.

Changing it a little, as in the case of LRW.org's logo, doesn't matter.

There are VERY strict interpretations of 'fair use', and his use is not one of them.

I'd watch it if I were him.

[Eric Siepmann]

Michael,

You've got my respect and admiration. I love photography and to be able to make a decent living doing it requires a level of creativity I do not have.

I hope you're succesful in your cases and that your settlement more than makes up for your losses. 750k? New rover if it was me.

My main peeve is that Sam is trying to play stupid. Well Stupid gets what it desevers in the end. Sam can tell the other homeless people in Utah that it wasn't drugs or mental affliction that made him homeless, but a stupid copyright infringement case gone bad.

EwS

[Kevin Baldwin]

As a contributor to LRW magazine, I'd just like to point out to you guys that despite its title, the landroverworld.org website has no connection whatsoever with Land Rover World magazine.

Kev

[Tawayama]

Eric,

Thanks for the kind words.

I share my example not to brag at how 'sucessful' I am (highly subjective BTW), but rather to point out that I actually DO know what I'm talking about.

This happens to me about twice a year. I'll see images of mine lifed from off of my site, or other sites I run, and they get put onto a third-parties site. Initially I always ask that they remove said images politely and in a cordial way. In NO case has my request been denied. Most people know that they are doing more than 'borrowing' images of mine, but I let it slide as a misunderstanding when they are humble and rectify the situation in a timely manner.

BUT, in this instance I am referring to, I open up a nationally distributed magazine, turn to the inside back cover and see a full-page 4-color ad using an image of mine. This is a company I have NEVER done work for, nor have I ever spoken to anyone in their marketing department.

I called the matter to their attention. They said I needed to prove that I owned the image and that they couldn't use it.

I explained that's not how it works, the told me to F-off.

So, two years and two sets of attorney's in two different states later they are finally starting to see the severity of the situation.

That's all the detail I want to go into, I don't want to air my dirty laundry here. Again, it's just to demonstrate that I have a history of studying and knowing the issues and laws involved very intimately.

If the owners/managers of Landroverworld.org think that copyright and trademark infringement go unnoticed, they are wrong. If they think they can ask for forgiveness and get off with a slap on the wrist and some personal embarassment, they are probably right.

My suggestion is to change the name and remove all trademarked and copyrighted images/logos off of their site immediately. Stick with their idea of having a BBS. The software they are using is good, the look of the site is nice, and it appears that there is indeed a market for yet another BBs.

To continue on their present course is reckless and negligent.

[pangaea]

Mike,

Of course the LandRoverWorld.org site looks nice, they appear to have borrowed heavily (read: jacked) some of the design straight from Land Rovers website. Heck, he didn't even bother to change the pixel size of them. Just "download to desktop" and call it your own.

That along with the logo, the confusing naming, the copyrighted images sure makes it all seem a bit dodgy.

And Sam, when Land Rover finds out, and it is a "when, not an "if", I wouldn't be suprised if they nailed your *ss to the wall. All in all you're breaking alot of copyright and intellectual property laws over there. If it we're me, I'd start from scratch on the design of the site and write the code yourself.

[pangaea]

From the landroverworld.org website:

[pangaea]

And now from the "real" Land Rover site:

[snuffer]

Hey Michael, pass the popcorn.

[Glenn_Guinto]

I have some here Randy... this is going to be a good one...lol

[Tawayama]

Chomp Chomp Chomp

(needs more butter)

[Eric Siepmann]

Hey pass some of that my way. And who's got the butter?

[Joe P]

A couple of comments -

First I feel like I was tricked. I didn't completely check out the site but I totally thought is belonged to LRW - the magazine. I also agree with most that there are too many forums online.

Secondly, another example of Ford coming after people is that Landrovers unlimited in Irvine, CA was forced to change it's name to West Coast Rovers.