Alternative Powerplants- Chevy V-8

[Bill Jansz]

If your really like your Rover and plan to keep it for a long time, a conversion like this would pay for itself in a couple of years, all the while enjoying the benefits and pleasures of the Chevy. If your looking for and need extra Horsepower & Torque, reliability, longevity, low repair cost, replacement parts available at your local parts store today(not special order, next week). General Motors (Chevrolet) has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the years developing a variety of parts for their cars that were both tremendously reliable and manufactured at a reasonable cost, why not take advantage of that??

True enough, a performance built 4.6 motor is a great way to go for some extra horsepower. A very well built 4.6 'Stage 3' motor with a good camshaft, head porting/polishing, increased compression, performance chip and anything else you might want to do to it, still may only produce 275hp and 300ftlb torque(ie:RPI Stage 3, 4.6lt motor). Where as a warmed up Chevrolet 350 motor, can easily reach(without trying) 350hp/350ftlb torque, without spending alot of money on exotic modifications. With the Chevy motor, you can keep the compression ratio down at 9:1 and still ran regular unleaded gas, saving you alot of $$$ in the long run. Also the fact of reliablity, low maintenance, readily available parts are a built in PLUS for this conversion.

I have nothing against the Rover powerplant, but as a Rover mechanic, I sure replace alot of Rover engines each year. Don't take it the wrong way, I think Rover has an excellent vehicle. You couldn't have a better box frame, front & rear differentials or transfer case, but as far as the aluminum Buick V-8(era 1961-1968)motor, it's a little out-dated. A rule of thumb," MORE POWER=MORE CUBIC INCHES", no other way around this. Why not have the best that both worlds can offer, Englands' Land Rover and Americas' Chevrolet. Considering Rover already uses a Buick V-8, it really wouldn't be to far out of the norm to utilize a Chevrolet V-8 replacement powerplant and 700R4 transmission combo.

I've been a mechanic for 25 + years, working on British/Europeon cars, and can see there is room for improvements with some of there powerplant/drivetrain systems. Why not opt for a tried-and-true system, like a GM(Chevy) drivetrain, since they have worked out all the bugs and have limitless combinations of readily available parts at such reasonable prices. It seems that over the years I've heard the frustration expressed by so many Land Rover/Range Rover owners that their 3.5, 3.9, 4.0. 4.2, 4.6 (Buick GM) engine just doesn't have the power and torque that they'd like or need. All kinds of attempted solutions have been tried, and many times the fix has ended up causing more problems and expense that anyone bargained for.

The EFI system could either be a GM factory computer which is programmable with some aftermarket programmers, or you could opt for a Accel EFI system with Laptop programming. The later system is infinitely adjustable for any engine combination, and is the most user friendly system available. All newer EFI systems incorporate Knock sensors to control the ignition timing, this is to prevent serious detonation and pinging problems, whereas 1995 and earlier Rovers have no Knock sensors(no timing control). When using a GM EFI system, you can have the vehicle serviced at almost any repair shop across the country, very convenient.

This 350/700R4/LT230 is a real cool combo, it is a total turn-key package by itself. The Chevy motor / transmission conversion incorporates an adapter plate, that mates up to the LT230 T-case. With all these conversion options available, horsepower and torque ratings, I like to approach and adhere to a "driveline protection" philosophy. This of course, would be to minimize the possibility of breaking parts in the balance of running gear (axles, differentials, u-joints and etc.) setup. An upgrading of these parts may also be addressed, if desired.

Due to the fact that most conversions require a lengthy explanation, e-mail is not always the most thorough and expedient method of communication. You can reach me at 405-790-0167, for a one on one look at your conversion needs, just ask for Bill Jansz.

It all has to do with CHOICES, and thank goodness for these different options. I'm trying to give Rover owners a broader platform to choice something that will fit their personal needs, that's all. This Chevy conversion is not for everyone, it's for those who want an alternative solution.

Thanks again for your inquiry, Bill Jansz.

E-mail at alohabill@sbcglobal.net

[Mike Hippert]

Just curious whats the "average cost" I know it will differ greatly based on how warmed up the engine is but lets say a swap from a 94 D-90 3.9 to a 350 with like you said 350hp/350ft-lbs.

[WhiteD90]

Your points are interesting and some are valid, but you appear to start at an engine swap and by the end it is an engine, tranny, and adapter to LT-230(all of which you need for that kind of power). What about driveshaft lengths and if the rig sees offroad action diffs, axles, and CVs are a real issue considering the stock lump can easily break those parts. My point is being that it will be quite costly up front but after that engine repairs can be made inexpensively with widely available parts.

Tis

[Rovertracks]

There is a lot to this kind of "conversion". While the promise of a big engine is really exciting Jonathan makes good... no excellent points... The rest of the driveline will self destruct if not addressed at the beginning... Things like diffs,cv's and the rest will be problematic if left stock on a truck used hard... The additional costs of drivshafts and those pesky"installation issues" can drive you crazy! Plus up here we have to pass emission tests that scare a lot of folks away from this sort of thing.

Once those issues are addressed you can go play with minimal worry...

Would I do such a thing? Well last weekend the 4.6 went into the Wifes Disco and at the same time the Adaptor for said SBC/ZF Autobox was completed at the machine shop...

[TwisteD90]

Hmmm, why would someone tell him to remove a good thread? I was looking forward to see some good discussion as I'm looking for a new power plant.

[Doug]

Here's the original info Bill posted on a similar thread at www.sclr.org:

Anyone interested in a turnkey Chevy V-8 conversion?
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IP: Logged

<BillJ>
unregistered

posted February 14, 2004 12:04 AM
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Anyone interested ? Complete turnkey installation. You choose the Horsepower & Torque.
Sure the Chevy V-8 and 700R-4 transmission might be a little heavier, but that's not a problem for a 350hp/350ftlb torque motor. New front coil springs, with a proper lb. rating, will take care of the cast iron. If this is the only 'con' about the Chevy V-8 conversion, I can give you 20 'pros' on this conversion. If your looking for and need extra Horsepower & Torque, reliability, longevity, low repair cost, replacement parts available at your local parts store today(not special order, next week). General Motors (Chevrolet) has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the years developing a variety of parts for their cars that were both tremendously reliable and manufactured at a reasonable cost, why not take advantage of that??

The cost for this turnkey conversion, depends on all the different engine combinations ( engine size, fuel injection system, accessories, etc). A 'basic' turnkey conversion, starts at around $11,000.00, email for complete details of parts and labor involved. Compare this cost to a hyped up Rover 'Stroked' motor(motor only) between $10,000.00 to $13,000.00. With my Chevy motor/transmission conversion , you will get the most value for your money, there are so many 'new' parts used, it would be good for 100,000 + miles. Email info at alohabill@sbcglobal.net

[chrisvonc]

Bill emailed me and the content from his original post and it has been placed back here in this post.

This thread is being moved to the Vendors Loft where we can continue an intellegant conversation as it is not really a single classified and he is looking to gain some possible customers.

Thanks

[Bill Jansz]

Hello Guys,
I'm glad to see the thread was posted, and thanks to Doug Walker for inserting my info from SCLR club. Anything to discuss, feel free to contact me. I'm also inserting my reply to Chris, when I emailed him my original post.
I've been reading some past tech topics and enjoy the threads concerning some problems and solutions. I try to give my input and share my knowledge to help in anyway I can.

This insert will be a intro about where my minds eye dwells:
To the D90 source, re Chris:
I've been a mechanic for 29 years, working on British/Europeon cars, and can see there is room for improvements with some of there powerplant/drivetrain systems, and as a Rover tech I sure replace a lot of Rover engines each year, usually because of oiling or overheating problems. Please don't take it the wrong way, Rovers have kept me working for all these years, I think overall, Rover has an excellent vehicle.
My expertise has been with the overall use of the Chevy drivetrain, for swapping purposes, whether it's a Jaguar, Austin Healy, Carmen Ghia, Jeeps or Range Rover. All my conversion are complete, with all the sub-systems of the car working properly(cruise control, instrumentation, a/c, etc)the way it should function. Over the years with doing the swaps in so many different vehicles, I would like to give Land Rover owners a viable option for improvement and enjoyment for there vehicles. I've worked out a complete conversion system for Land Rovers (certain models at this time and always upgrading to meet demands with other models). I guess I never really considered myself a vendor, just a enthusiast / customizer with a mind that wont stop thinking about improving whats out there(ie:building a better mouse trap). I'm just one of those people who desire something out of the norm, but can't pick-up the phone to order it, because no one has produced what I want. Well there I go.., lets fabricate it, because that's what I want. We are only limited to our imagination and I guess our abilities, damn it for wanting. I've attached some photos for example what was in my mind, and wasn't produced by any company at that time and may still not be available. I like superchagers and I like fuel injection, the photos are of my minds desire back in 1994, a fabrication of supercharger with multi-point fuel injection(laptop programmable). It was a desire, it became a fabrication, it's now a reality in my 1978 Camaro(which actually started life as a 1978 Trans-am).
I guess, if I was not in the right forum on the D90 Source, please modify my classing according to club rules, as you see fit.
It's been a pleasure communicating with you, thanks, Bill Jansz.
PS. Chris if you'd like to talk some more, give a call on the phone 405-790-0167, I'm a great mechanic, but a lousy typist.

[gearco]

I think youse guys have forgotten a couple of motors that beat the crap out of the Chevy V8. the 4 litre BMW and Jaguar. The bellhousings of both motors fit the ZF 4HP 22 automatic transmission. And both are 4 valve per cylinder high torque fuel efficient motors. Wrecked Jags and BMWs make a good source for Rover conversions. Why not consider these?

[RoverC]

Well I will bet you cant source parts as cheap!
For tq look at any used LQ9 chevy engine and it will put out over 370lbs of tq stock. Play with the ECU via a diablo sport and that will go over 420 stock.
Not sure a zf4hp22 will handle all that, but a 24 may?
That engine can be had tuned for about $2800.00 total and includes everyting but a/c.
The LQ4 is similar but is a 5.3 instead of a 6.0 I think. The lq4 vortec 5.3 can get up to 25 mpg in a jeep on the highway. So 20 can be possible in a rover.
Me I went with a 4L80e GM's most HD auto and had it built by MonsterMotorsports to handle 900hp. the also mated it to the lt230 with an adaptor from Mark4x4 in aus. The t/c is an Ashcroft custom job with 1:1 high range and their newest design underdrive. Adding a disc brake instead of the drum.
Marks provided the motor mount adaptors too.
W/o an underdrive you can do it all for under $6k easy, alot less than buliding a rover or a diesel.
Now if Keith has that adaptor and you can use a zf.... that will make it super cheap. I have to adapt the D/s too. but its all time not expensive really.
When I started mine none of that existed and the engine I chose puts out 419+lbs of tq, so I wanted to be sure the tranny could stand it in the long run. I set out to overbuild it so I wont break anything.
As to breaking things, I ran my D90 w/ Supercharger and 35" SSRs and never have broken anything on any of my trips from FL to UT, CO, WY and back nor while wheeling there. Now with this setup its different and portal teks may be going in.

Follow-up Post:

Oh and by the way, there is a shop locally that will make the wiring harness for these engines a truly plug and play design. No trying to figure out what wire does what and where.
Sounds like a group buy of chevys is in order... John?

[Wakeboarder2MD]

B U M P


Just curious if anyone has actually done this sort of thing and how it turned out?

I am looking to buy a D90 for daily driving purposes and *mild* trail use... I realize these rover engines are all gonna be old & was wondering how possible it would be to do an economical swap to a chevy powerplant. How much it would cost, can you find people to do it locally - or do you have to ship it somewhere.

[RoverC]

Byron,
Mine is still in the works, but mine has taken on a life of its own!
Now has a 6.2L L92 engine putting out an estimated 450hp/490tq, with the new GM 6L80e (yes a 6 speed auto!)
Really if you look around, you can find parts relatively inexpensive to do a Rover engine rebuild.
What I would do is find a used block, do a good rebuild and leave it alone.
You can put in a chevy, IF you have the adapters for the motor mounts, tranny etc, but will take some fabbing.
Find a used 4.6 Rover engine and do a rebuild, then swap if need be.
My engine at 85k+ miles was immaculate (if only the shop had put oil in the engine!) when I took it apart.
Leave it stock and enjoy the hell out of it unless youre a real motorhead and love custom work (and have the time and $$ to do it)

Follow-up Post:

Oh by the way, IMHO, you should buy it for the other way around. Get an econo for daily driving and use this on the trail. Most dont like how they ride, handle, slow, brake etc, as they are a true work vehicle and NO luxury.
Hate to see you buy one and then have to resell it once you see they arent anything like a jeep

[Wakeboarder2MD]

Thanks for the info. As I had an Fj-40 for many years as my daily driver, a D90 would actually be a step up in terms of luxury. A/C, PS, etc. ;)

I plan on buying one, having it as a dd for the next 4-5 years, then 'retiring' her as a weekend & trail rider. When I am out of my residency (I'm a medical student). I hope the engine I'll get will last, then I'd probably look into throwing a TD5 or 300Tdi into it.

6-speed auto. Holy shiit! 450 hp!! Wow.







Byron,
Mine is still in the works, but mine has taken on a life of its own!
Now has a 6.2L L92 engine putting out an estimated 450hp/490tq, with the new GM 6L80e (yes a 6 speed auto!)
Really if you look around, you can find parts relatively inexpensive to do a Rover engine rebuild.
What I would do is find a used block, do a good rebuild and leave it alone.
You can put in a chevy, IF you have the adapters for the motor mounts, tranny etc, but will take some fabbing.
Find a used 4.6 Rover engine and do a rebuild, then swap if need be.
My engine at 85k+ miles was immaculate (if only the shop had put oil in the engine!) when I took it apart.
Leave it stock and enjoy the hell out of it unless youre a real motorhead and love custom work (and have the time and $$ to do it)

Follow-up Post:

Oh by the way, IMHO, you should buy it for the other way around. Get an econo for daily driving and use this on the trail. Most dont like how they ride, handle, slow, brake etc, as they are a true work vehicle and NO luxury.
Hate to see you buy one and then have to resell it once you see they arent anything like a jeep

[rovertrader]

Well, our adaptor is due any day. We sourced a Chevy to ZF adaptor through AA from Australia ( Scotty's), with a twist. The Chevy 4.3 V-6 is the same bellhousing as a 350( different adaptors- be specific when ordering). While not the power and torque of the 350- nor the weight, it is very close to a 4.6 in terms of output- in stock form. We are hoping for 20+ mpg on reg petrol. Rover Automotive is doing the work as kind of a joint venture of sorts, as if this is succesful, it is a tremendous option for all the Defenders, as well as Discos, RRC, etc. It is very popular in other markets, and should blend in well w/ the rest of the drivetrain w/o overloading it. Lastly, the cost should be greatly lower than the Tdi route, as a friend just completed his at a cost over $15k- just for parts.....although that does include a ZF diesel autobox, plumbing, etc.

[RoverC]

I agree about the tr5/tdi engine being way too expensive, unless you are planning to drive it 10k miles a year for 20 years.
Swapping in that smaller chevy would be a much smarter idea.
Sure you can get 28+mpg off roading, but the cost of the swap will negate any gas savings for a loooong time.

I am one of the few I know who actually drives my D90 from FL to WY, CO, UT, MT and back over and over.
For that I need a more powerful engine than a tdi, since I am loaded down and want to run 75-80 mph most of the way. I know they put out allot of tq, but I"m not confident my truck at 4500+lbs, into a headwind, uphill in the mountains would be able to maintain 70mph with any of the tiny diesels. With my 4.0 supercharged it was barely ok for me.

Here the cost of diesel is almost .75 per gallon more than reg fuel as well.

[mattarm]

Cliff,

Was your D90 up for sale recently? After reading you post, I remembered seeing a web page with a white 90 built up with a SBC and I want to say if was for sale. I am really trying to chase down that page to re read the specs and check out the photos, not so much in the market for a new vehicle.
Thanks,
Matt

[RoverC]

Matt,
Let me know if you find it. I would like to see the specs too!
But mine is a 1997 BRG ST.
Matt at RW had always talked about putting in a SBC, dont know if it was his?
I can send pics if anyone wants.
How do you post pics here?

[mattarm]

Cliff,
I would love to see pics of what you have going on. I did finally find what I was looking for, only it is no longer there, so to speak as the link is no good. http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10798&highlight=350.

Matt

[pendy]

I think you guys are thinking of James Pierces old truck. It sold. Can't remember who ended up with it.
Vortec chev V-8 to NV 4500 trans to LT 230. He did a good job with it.

JP

[RoverC]

Maybe you could email him direct? Or Pendy seemed to know the truck as well.

Follow-up Post:

what timing....

Follow-up Post:

Here is a pic of my old setup before I swapped the 4 speed for a 6 speed auto

Its a built 4L80/85e (for sale by the way, pass the word)
Ashcroft built LT230 w/ 1:1 high range and no electronics
Ashcroft new design (as of '06) crawler box
Marks 4x4 (Australia) adapters.

I will take some of the new setup, which is the same except a 6L80e, and a custom adapter (part Marks, part mine)

[tkavan01]

Maybe you could email him direct? Or Pendy seemed to know the truck as well.

Follow-up Post:

what timing....

Follow-up Post:

Here is a pic of my old setup before I swapped the 4 speed for a 6 speed auto

Its a built 4L80/85e (for sale by the way, pass the word)
Ashcroft built LT230 w/ 1:1 high range and no electronics
Ashcroft new design (as of '06) crawler box
Marks 4x4 (Australia) adapters.

I will take some of the new setup, which is the same except a 6L80e, and a custom adapter (part Marks, part mine)so what was your final setup, did you ever finish it? my d's engine is just about to kick it...

Did you deal directly with mark's? i've tried to send them a few emails but never got a response...

I'm trying to decide lt1 or 4.3 vortec, and whether to do a tranny swap too...

[Stmpede]

If you're considering the LT1 why not just go for the LS1 or LS6...:grin

You can find a complete used LS1s with the harness and ecu pretty darn cheap out of a camaro/firechicken.

[GYM]

LS6 as in 454 ?
Squeezing a fat block into a D-90 would be an interesting sight to behold...

[RoverC]

Its all in, just not finished.

It is the all aluminum L92 6.2L out of the 2007 Escalade ESV that has variable valve timing.
Tranny is the 6L80e 6 speed auto. Has the same 4 gears as the ZF that our trucks came w/ but an added lower 1st of 4.07, and a 6th of .63.
Adapter is a part of the Marks kit and a custom mating plate as the 6L has a MUCH larger bolt pattern than the 4L80e.
Mated that to the new Ashcroft t/c w/ 1:1 high range and their new underdrive.
The t/c sits back about 1-2" from stock, so a plate to move the shifter forward has to be made. Pretty simple and straightforward there.

Engine stock is about 403hp, 417 tq. W/ headers, no cats and an ECU tune, comes out around 450hp, 490tq. I didnt do the tune to get more power, you just have to do that if you remove the cats and add headers etc anyway. Just a byproduct. I was more than happy w/ a 400 hp engine.

The Tq is 300+ at 2000 rpm and builds fast. Pretty flat curve from 2500-5500 rpm. Should pull strong. (4.07 1st gear x 3.321 low range x 2.69 underdrive x 4.16 gearing = 151.25 possible final drive, not accounting for the doubling effect of the auto box) That gives me allot of choices.

This engine has the tall truck intake and looks to clear the hood. Puts out more low rpm tq compared to the other LS engine designs.

You can get an ECU that will allow different fuel settings (83/87/93 octane) or adjust sensitivity to the gas pedal like the RR's do when you put it in low to avoid wheel spin. Id like that feature, but my GM ECU has built in cruise control which they dont offer yet. Might as well use it! Once they do, I will switch.

Nice thing here is the engine is totally stock! A gazillion parts for them anywhere from junkyards to any parts store.

Escalades at 6500 lbs get a tad over 20 mpg highway with this engine at 70mph. So being 2500 lbs lighter I hope to achieve the same or better. I have more wind resistance, but alot less wt. Time will tell.

Marks motor mount adapters dont fit the Gen IV engine mounts, so you have to get Gen I adapters like they use when putting these engines into a early A body. I may send the mounts to someone like Roverhybrids so they can duplicate them as no one makes them anywhere in the world to bolt right up! (Have to do some bartering there ;-) )

Also have to use the high mount A/c bracket from Kwikperformance.com to clear the frame.
Need to use the vette alt/ps bracket w/ spacers to clear the steering box.

Exhaust Im not sure about yet, but JBA block hugger shorty's should clear.

Pan is damn deep on this engine, but looks to clear, If not its an easy swap to one of the other 3-4 style pans to get more clearance.

This is all if you are using the engines w/ VVT. A normal LS1/LS2/LS3/LS6 etc w/o VVT has a shorter water pump and may fit differently. I think those brackets are still needed anyway to clear. Just different spacing and different pullys.

I got all my stuff directly from Marks in Aus, but had a buddy go by there and buy it, then ship it. Even after paying him $100 for his time it was about 1/2 of what AA wanted for the same stuff! And by the way, it seems Marks may not stock some items, they MAKE them when you order them. so there is a lag time.

If they know youre in the USA, they try to defer you to AA, who I found was totally in the dark about the parts, how and if they fit etc. They just sell them. Ask them a question, they contact Marks.

Next up is adding the Disc brake parking brake conversion and the Howe PS pump. Im using the stock 165 amp alt that came w/ the engine for now.

Then getting the radiator made like John F's and adjusting the clearance to the front of the engine.

Follow-up Post:

By the way, they and maybe roverhybrids make a chevy to ZF adapter.
So if you went with the 4.3 you could keep the ZF box (I have one for sale w/ the LT230Q t/c out of my '97 D90 for sale by the way)

Knowing Id be putting out 400+ hp I asked Ashcroft about his thoughts on a ZF holding up even if he made a 22/24 hybrid like he does, and his response was "doubtful". Thus I went w/ the chevy autobox, 1st the 4L80/85e (for sale now) and then the 6 speed when it came out last year.

[tkavan01]

Follow-up Post:

By the way, they and maybe roverhybrids make a chevy to ZF adapter.
So if you went with the 4.3 you could keep the ZF box (I have one for sale w/ the LT230Q t/c out of my '97 D90 for sale by the way)

Knowing Id be putting out 400+ hp I asked Ashcroft about his thoughts on a ZF holding up even if he made a 22/24 hybrid like he does, and his response was "doubtful". Thus I went w/ the chevy autobox, 1st the 4L80/85e (for sale now) and then the 6 speed when it came out last year.i don't have a zf, so that won't do me much good, i was praying someone would have made an nv4500 to lt230 converter, that would make a great tough drive train without axle swapping...

The reason for an lt1 over a ls1 or the such is i can get a 94 lt1 out of a camaro no problem and if ever there are issues with engine swapping i don't have to keep the obd2 equipment of a newer motor, plus the i've already done a 94 lt1 swap into my fj40, so i'm familiar with the available vendors for the parts...

any chance your friend might be interested in making some more cash?

Any other vendors for adapter parts?

[RoverC]

Sounds like Pendy knows that James Pierce did just that but with a Vortec engine. Not sure who he is, but maybe someone can track him down and see who made his?
Shame these guys do all this work then sell the truck!

If I can find a good fabricator like Rovertracks (meant RT when I said RH) who can duplicate the adapter motor mounts, I will send them to them. They would then have both Gen 1 mounts all the way through Gen IV.

[tkavan01]

Sounds like Pendy knows that James Pierce did just that but with a Vortec engine. Not sure who he is, but maybe someone can track him down and see who made his?
Shame these guys do all this work then sell the truck!

If I can find a good fabricator like Rovertracks (meant RT when I said RH) who can duplicate the adapter motor mounts, I will send them to them. They would then have both Gen 1 mounts all the way through Gen IV.i see it over an d over again on every forum i frequent, someone goes into a huge build up project, has it all laid out, blows a huge wad of cash, loses interest or ability to keep the vehicle as soon as they are done...

anyone with knowledge of a nv4500 to lt230 adapter?

[pendy]

Yes

Keep searching you will find it. If I spoon feed you what have you gained?

[tkavan01]

Yes

Keep searching you will find it. If I spoon feed you what have you gained?so your saying the best idea is to buy a th400 adapter from marks and get someone to modify it to fit an nv4500?

[RoverC]

No, I "think" he meant search the threads and web for the answer. Not sure why... being funny I suppose

[tkavan01]

No, I "think" he meant search the threads and web for the answer. Not sure why... being funny I supposei've searched, I could list off the first 30 hits from google no one really seems to have an answer a few custom solutions using mark's stuff...

Rover hybrids has some pictures posted of a conversion, but they don't have much of a description with them, i'm just amazed with the fact that no one just makes it...

[Shane@EVS]

I have an adapter that i made using ideas from James and Ryan S. You can see some pics on the 4BT build on my website:
http://www.roverhybrids.com/VA_4BT_D90.html

The end result was expensive, more than most can justify..........

[pendy]

Not enough of a market.

I could sell you the stuff to do this and ship it this week. But my guess is you won't pay my price. You are just out beating on doors looking for the inexpensive option. But maybe I'm wrong.

Whats the color of your money?

People have been trying to make this happen for 10 plus years. Everyone who has, ran into financial obstacles preventing it from being reproduceable on a economies to scale approach. So what ever you end up with will be a one off.

Keith K - rovertrx did boast to me in an alocohol induced moment that he was involved in the latest attempt to make kits for this available. Prolly with Advance Adapt I would guess.

To my knowledge all mods like this have been a progression. Many of us involved have seen the problems encountered. If memory serves me correctly I think Shane followed the best path yet with his latest conception. If he broached the input of the LT 230 to take the NV output shaft. Thats the path I would like to see this idea take if it actually happens. On a large scale.


Someone give this guy Clark from Canadas phone number! LOL

[tkavan01]

Not enough of a market.

I could sell you the stuff to do this and ship it this week. But my guess is you won't pay my price. You are just out beating on doors looking for the inexpensive option. But maybe I'm wrong.

Whats the color of your money?

People have been trying to make this happen for 10 plus years. Everyone who has, ran into financial obstacles preventing it from being reproduceable on a economies to scale approach. So what ever you end up with will be a one off.

Keith K - rovertrx did boast to me in an alocohol induced moment that he was involved in the latest attempt to make kits for this available. Prolly with Advance Adapt I would guess.

To my knowledge all mods like this have been a progression. Many of us involved have seen the problems encountered. If memory serves me correctly I think Shane followed the best path yet with his latest conception. If he broached the input of the LT 230 to take the NV output shaft. Thats the path I would like to see this idea take if it actually happens. On a large scale.


Someone give this guy Clark from Canadas phone number! LOL
that wouldn't be obw would it? no thanks...

From what i read it seamed like modifying the input would make it too weak...

[pendy]

No the Clark I am refering to is way further back then BOW SC

[tkavan01]

No the Clark I am refering to is way further back then BOW SCguess i'm just to young...


roverhybrids:

i came across the page you linked in my search, but the description was lacking for me half technical knowledge skill level...

[RoverC]

Actually swapping in the engine isnt all that big a deal.
Marks makes motor mount adapters for the Gen 1 & 2 engines.
They also make adapters for chevy trans to lt230's.
So if you go that route it all bolts right in, albeit overall length is longer so modifying your drivesaft lengths are required.

I have located one person who has bolted in an LS Gen III engine into 2 different Defenders in the UK.
I will see if he can duplicate the motor mount adapters he fabbed.
He actually got the engine from Turn Key, here in the USA which is where I was getting my original LS engine from. Small world.
Need to know what headers he is using as it cleared the frame with NO issues!
He is running a LS1 w/ 4L80e, which is the exact setup I started with! He took it to Aus for some competition and it performed flawlessly. Said something about spinning his 35" Simex Tires at 30mph on tarmac (he has a 1.4:1 lt230 though)
There is another person that did similar in South Africa.
Hard to believe these guys have done it before anyone here, as they order the engines and trannys from builders here in the USA.

Now if he can provide the mounts, and RT makes a ZF adapter, then the auto guys should have a pretty easy swap. Maybe RT can then make it all.

As to the NV trans, sounds like RT may have that in the works too?

Some one should actually take the Marks kit and duplicate it as AA is useless and Marks never seems to answer their email or phone!

[tkavan01]

http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_53350.htm this is what i'm thinking about, keeping the r380 transmission trying to get mark's to send me an adapter... you might think with the crap economy maybe he'd be willing to work with me?

[RoverC]

Trevor,
Just my opinion, but check places like Schramm for engines out of wrecked vehicles with low miles.
For example, I got my 2007 L92 complete with all accessories (alt, PS, ac) plus wiring, ecu, 6 speed auto, w/ GM transfer case for less that they want for just that engine alone!
Plus mine had only 27 miles on it!
Took a bit of looking, but well worth the wait.
LS1's LS2's etc have been around long enough so that you should be able to find some great deals.

What I like about the L92 besides the VVT is that it was designed as a truck engine and designed to last a good 250k+ miles. I only drive my daily driver just shy of 11K miles a year so this engine should be good for what, 28 years, if I drive it 9k miles a year taking trips from FL to CO etc.

I recontacted the guy in Aus that sent me my parts, I will let you know what he says about Marks.

Also, no one seems to make the correct motor mounts.
Hopefully this guy in the UK will write back. I can adapt the Marks Gen I mounts if need be, but it would be great if someone in the USA had both.

If I can get ahold of them, maybe someone like Keith at RT can duplicate them so they are available.

[tkavan01]

Trevor,
Just my opinion, but check places like Schramm for engines out of wrecked vehicles with low miles.
For example, I got my 2007 L92 complete with all accessories (alt, PS, ac) plus wiring, ecu, 6 speed auto, w/ GM transfer case for less that they want for just that engine alone!
Plus mine had only 27 miles on it!
Took a bit of looking, but well worth the wait.
LS1's LS2's etc have been around long enough so that you should be able to find some great deals.

What I like about the L92 besides the VVT is that it was designed as a truck engine and designed to last a good 250k+ miles. I only drive my daily driver just shy of 11K miles a year so this engine should be good for what, 28 years, if I drive it 9k miles a year taking trips from FL to CO etc.

I recontacted the guy in Aus that sent me my parts, I will let you know what he says about Marks.

Also, no one seems to make the correct motor mounts.
Hopefully this guy in the UK will write back. I can adapt the Marks Gen I mounts if need be, but it would be great if someone in the USA had both.

If I can get ahold of them, maybe someone like Keith at RT can duplicate them so they are available.
i've been looking at motors online and seems like the cheap ones get snapped up real quick and put back on the market for a premium... What i like about the turn key motor is the 5 wire setup! no dealing with all the jazz of a new harness and everything... we'll see though, i'm gonna keep watching for something to pop up

[RoverC]

Once you have the $$ you want to spend, contact a place like Schramm and tell them what you are looking for. Maybe once they get it they can call you first, or call them weekly, daily whatever to let them know youre looking.

Also, 5 wire does NOT mean that will hook right into your facotry LR wiring harness and power all your gagues, etc.

You will still need new MM adapters, radiator, and those brackets for the alt and PS wont work as the alt sits right where the steering box is. May also have to use the LS3 oil pan.

Its alot more than just getting the engine. Why spend the $$ then have to replace some of it anyway?

Follow-up Post:

and the guy in Aus wrote back and said he will follow up after Jan 6th when he returns

[crown14]

Escalades at 6500 lbs get a tad over 20 mpg highway with this engine at 70mphNot quite, ours certianly dosent.

[RoverC]

Is yours a 2007 ESV w/ the 6.2 & VVT?
I had asked on the Cadillac boards and that was what I was told by a few different people

[Webbsite]

Well, its been almost a year since this was updated.

How well did it work? Or did all that extra power cause problems with the diffs/shafts etc.

Who made the extra adaptor to mate the Marks adaptor to the 6L80E? Is it available to purchase or is there a published design?

I would really like to put this setup into a Rover based buggy and don't want to re-invent the adaptors etc if they are available.

Regards,

Roger

[ezzzzzzz]

I know this is an old thread. I keep hearing about these huge engines going into Land Rovers over here in the USA. Talk is cheap. I want to know what vehicles are getting the transplants AND I want to see the pictures. Certainly, anyone that has actually pulled this off has taken photos along the way. One big problem here in the states is the steering box on the leftside of the vehicle since the engine is offset to that side. Second is the narrow frame rails leaving little room for exhaust on the left side. Even if you've managed to work around these problems there is the exhorbant costs involved of mass producing parts. Most conversions I've seen (and done) involved a lot more metal work than the average Rover owner is going to be inclined to pursue. I've fitted a LS1/4L60E/flipped Dana300 and Ford hi-pinion 9" axles into my 71 88" on a shortened 90" coiler chassis. It was no easy task and much fab work was required. It is a one-off project. I can provide photos to any interested party. This same engine will NOT fit into a north american Disco or Rangie without work that could never be sold in a box as a conversion kit. Also, it's easier to pull teeth from a hen than get parts from Mark's in Australia. They, and most of their 'dealers', the most non-responsive people I've ever dealt with. Advance Adapters here in the states is absolutely clueless about the products from Mark's. They only list three kits for Toyota conversions. :cool:

[GYM]

I keep hearing about these huge engines going into Land Rovers over here in the USA. Talk is cheap. I want to know what vehicles are getting the transplants AND I want to see the pictures. :cool:


Take a look in the Misc Pictures section on this site. Old pics of a Defender with an SBC.

[RoverC]

I actually have the Marks kit, and a modified version to fit the 6L80/90e. Soon to be modded a bit more to fit the 6L90e (different adapter shaft needed is all)

Thorley headers will fit, the 326's

What you need is a motor mount that fits the engine in the right location. You are right the steering box is in the way, so you have to run a different set of pulleys. A few in the UK have put LS engines into their defenders, but they are all fabricators and just say "set the engine in and fab a set". Yeah

I have a set of the Marks chevy V8 adapters, but they fit pre LS engines. I may be persuaded to part with them if someone wanted to duplicate them.

As to the Marks parts, there is a place in S Africa (starts with a P) that also makes the same, and might be even better material. Marks doesnt stock any of the parts, they makes them when you order, so plan on 6+ mos to get them. I knew someone local and they went by and got them for me. Even the Africa co that makes (or made them 3 years ago) was pretty slow to respond. AA is not only useless, but they mark up the costs 100% from what I paid.

My project was derailed due to personal/family/financial problems but will be back on track soon I hope.

Current setup is:

L92 Chevy V8 6.2L with VVT (variable valve timing) no displacement on demand
Stock was 403hp/417tq (at 2500rpm) w/ the stock truck intake
Thorley headers (claim to add 28hp and 44tq) seeing if the 336 will fit to as they are tri-y design
CTS-v supercharger w/ upgraded intercooler (est 630hp) This is what a stock CTS-v puts out with the pulley upgrade and no intercooler upgrade nor headers etc., just the ECU flash

6L80e 6 speed auto (has the exact same gears as our ZFhp22 but add a 4.08 low and a .67 6th) to be replaced with a built 6L90e (they are 3/4" longer)

Mated to the t/c with a Marks 4x4 kit, and totally new spacer as the 6l is much larger in the bolt pattern compared to the other GM trannys. Its actually a bit lighter and is smaller than say a 4l80e. The adapter shaft fit perfectly, but using a 6l90 will require a larger output spline adapter.

Ashcroft built Lt230 w/ 1:1 high range, stock low

Ashcoft underdrive

Just need to have mounts made.

The t/c sits back some so you have to use a DII t/c shifter and I am planning to use a powerglide manual shifter in the factory 5 speed shifter location. These trans have PRNDM. So when you go to M you either have paddle shifter or TU/TD like on a RR. I will have the latter on the steering wheel. There are detents on the trans but I cant get anyone to verify they will put it into a different gear if used. If you have a console or cubby you could use a G8 or similar shifter.

You have to use either the stock GM or a MAST ECU as the trans needs to talk to the computer to shift similar to our ZF autos do. Id like a MAST ecu, but they are pricey. What I like about them is that you can have varied fuel quality/octane settings and even lessen the pedal sensitivity (these use electric gas pedals like the Td5 on). So like some of the newer rovers you could greatly increase the amount of pedal needed to get going say when you went to low or if it were snowy out and you didnt need/want the power. Downside is they dont have cruise like the factory one, nor tow/haul mode which uses engine braking somehow. Both of those might come in handy, and I want the cruise. Maybe Mast will add it someday.

I have the truck oil pan, but will probably replace it with the shallower one. Clearance "might" be an issue, but mainly due to the drain plug sitting right on top of the diff/u joint. The other GM pans have the drain on the other side. I could move the engine back more and even higher, but I am trying to keep my stock hood and where I want the trans to sit.

And no I dont plan on running rover axles. Most all of this was done years ago, just got blindsided and now trying to get back on track.

Unfortunately I dont have any real pics, could take some of it sitting in the truck I suppose. Just not the type who documents and takes pics of this stuff.

If someone made the engine mounts and the trans adapter it wouldnt be all that hard to do an LS engine with a 4 speed trans. The 6 is a whole other beast. Pulleys can be swapped from other GM and some older like mid 90's cars even. Mine has VVT so that also was an issue as the pulleys stick out farther than most.
So with a set of headers, mounts, t/c adapter and the right t/c shifter many rover guys could swap it in.

[RoverC]

I also remember that someone was making a zf to chevy bellhousing replacement or adapter awhile back, which would eliminate the need for the Marks kit. Cant remember who was doing that. I would think a mild 350hp LS engine wouldnt kill a 22 but a 24 might be better.

I just go to extremes it seems and like to overbuild when possible.
With my setup and strong axles, the only possible weak point is the t/c which is pretty stout.
Im not drag racing the thing anyway and never broke even a stock axle after many years of offroading even with 35" SSR's.

Too bad no one local is a rover person/fabricator who can help out.
I will probably have to take it to a racecar place and see if they can make the engine mount adapters.

[o2batsea]

Cliff this is looking very tasty. I like the idea of the aluminum GM engine. What's the issue with the mounts? Are you saying the ones that are on the engine need to be changed or the ones on the frame?
Whats the difference between the 6L80 and the 6L90?
Is the VVT an optional thing or is it required for the engine to operate? I mean could you run this all with a Megasquirt instead of the GM ECU?

[RoverC]

You just need mounts that bolt to the engine block and position the engine where it needs to be. The Marks ones are pretty close, but use the old 3 bolt pattern and newer engines are 4 bolt. They claimed they were what I needed, but they werent.

The VVT is only on certain engines like the L92 which I bought as I got a steal on it, the trans, t/c, wiring, ecu, etc with only 27 miles on it. VVT allows a broad tq curve and thus why they use it in the Escalade, some Hummers, the big Danali etc. Other engines like the LS1,2,3 dont have VVT. The VVT is actuated by a cam phaser and oil pressure I think, not by the ECU. Have no knowledge of a megasquirt, but there are plenty of normal aftermarket ECU's that will run an LS engine that doesnt use VVT, that maybe one of them?

Its only an issue if you run a 6l80/90 as only the GM and Mast ecu's that I know of will interface and allow it to shift correctly. In these trannys the ecu is inside the oil pan so you cant replace it. And you need the right way to shift it.

The 80 is pretty stout, can handle something like 490lbs of engine tq. It does fine in a 6000lb Escalade ESV and allows it to tow as well. The 90 is the same, but 3/4" longer, has heavier duty thicker gears and is used in applications like the CTS-v which puts out 538hp/tq stock and some other HD trucks. Supposed to have a beefier torque converter too. Since my 80 is new I am swapping it and a few dollars for a built 90. They make a heavier duty clutches for them. Of course this is for guys who drag race and allows it to live so I think mine will do just fine. Magnusen makes a SC kit that bumps the hp/tq in the ESV to the same as the CTS-v range of 550 and the trans seem to handle that. So a D90 weighing much less with a built 6L90 should have no issues.

If I were running a car intake, hood clearance wouldnt be an issue like the truck intake did. I could leave the SC off and change the hood to the new style, but I really like the old style better. Will all depend on once the mounts are made and everything is bolted up. The car intake is super low, the SC is mid and the truck intake sits the highest.

I still need to have a radiator with fans made before I do, and get an X brake installed then it can be all bolted up.

If you do a web search for a D90 with corvette engine it shows a guy in the UK who bought an LS1(?) from Turnkey and installed it into a D90 he then took to Australia and competed with. I emailed him some time back and he said he never had any problems. He was using the car intake and probably was putting out 400+ hp. He was the one who let me know what headers fit.

[D90DRC]

What about a Ford Cobra Motor?

[RoverC]

Well I dont know the tq of that motor, but most stick to Chevy as there are some adapters out there. I do know there was a lady who had a ford in her 109, but thats the only one Ive ever seen personally.

You really dont want/need high hp, just allot of tq, thus why many go diesel

I just find those engines run out of power for highway use.

And the ease and cheap cost of the newer chevy engines makes it a good choice too IMHO

[airbornrover]

Some of the people over in the UK have been trying out LS engines with some success it seems.

[RoverC]

with the plentiful supply, the better cooling over the old gen III designs, all aluminum and stock putting out 400+hp/417tq @ 2500 rpm, as well as designed to last 100k+ miles easily, its really the best choice.
I personally wouldnt go LS 1,2, or 3, rather L92 or similar as they are truck engines. Externally the same, but the L92 and the LS3 have the same heads and flow the best.

Hope to have some Gen IV motor mounts in the next month or so fabbed up. Odd no one makes them. I guess they just make them as they fit the engine. Even mine may not work for anyone else as mine will be spaced to fit a certain oil pan, Thorley headers, 6speed trans etc. Someone putting a Chevy in and using a 5 speed manual or the stock auto may not be spaced right.

[willismatt25]

I know this is an old thread. I keep hearing about these huge engines going into Land Rovers over here in the USA. Talk is cheap. I want to know what vehicles are getting the transplants AND I want to see the pictures. Certainly, anyone that has actually pulled this off has taken photos along the way. One big problem here in the states is the steering box on the leftside of the vehicle since the engine is offset to that side. Second is the narrow frame rails leaving little room for exhaust on the left side. Even if you've managed to work around these problems there is the exhorbant costs involved of mass producing parts. Most conversions I've seen (and done) involved a lot more metal work than the average Rover owner is going to be inclined to pursue. I've fitted a LS1/4L60E/flipped Dana300 and Ford hi-pinion 9" axles into my 71 88" on a shortened 90" coiler chassis. It was no easy task and much fab work was required. It is a one-off project. I can provide photos to any interested party. This same engine will NOT fit into a north american Disco or Rangie without work that could never be sold in a box as a conversion kit. Also, it's easier to pull teeth from a hen than get parts from Mark's in Australia. They, and most of their 'dealers', the most non-responsive people I've ever dealt with. Advance Adapters here in the states is absolutely clueless about the products from Mark's. They only list three kits for Toyota conversions. :cool:
Here are some pics of a D-90 with LS2

[RoverC]

Do you know whose that is? How to contact them or the specs?
The few odd things are that the engine looks centered in the engine compartment. How they did that and used a LR t/c is making me wonder. Maybe they used a different one? What trans?
They also arent running a/c.
The didnt have to cut the mounts and weld, but to each his own