83 110 coversion to soft top with cage.

[mountainviewrover]

just bought a rhd 83 110. i will be converting it to a softtop/opentop for summer driving. i will have a full rollcage. hopefully down the road i will convert the 3.5l to 4.2 and make it automatic. more to come as i gain progress.

[rmuller]

As they say... "This Thread Is Worthless Without Pictures!!" .. so post em up!

[EWR]

Why would you put a 4.2 in?....
So, you're trying to do a East Coast Rover "Beach Runner"? type of truck?....have any pics?
Will you be converting to LHD?

:)

[mountainviewrover]

yes, i want to do something very similar. i love the looks of that beach runner! mike and the guys at east coast rovers put out some great looking rigs. i know i can't afford one, so.... i will be keeping this truck right handed. i would do the engine swap primarily because of the fuel injection. i have asked mike about a couple cage pieces hopefully he can give me some advise on those. but will post some pictures when i get a little further along with it.

[EWR]

Sounds interesting,....if possible though, I would stay away from the 4.2,...but that's just my .02 :)
As far as getting help from Mike at ECR,.....well, I would venture to guess that those trucks have quite a bit of custom fabrication, and I doubt he or anyone that might work there would be so forthcoming with just "handing over" information on how it's done. But, good luck and get those pictures rolling,.....

[mountainviewrover]

carey, we are all friends here. mike is a nice guy. i am not asking for secret plans or anything just advise on some mount brackets. i will post the pictures after the cage in installed. pretty chilly up in rockport this tme of year. nice area. what's that local micro brew? ship yard?

[EWR]

Hey Mark, I wasn't implying an "unfriendly" atmosphere,...just thinking out loud :)
Local brew, I believe there are a few actually, I've only been here for a few months so still getting the lay of land. Good Luck with the build.

[D90DRC]

Mike at ECR is on this site frequently Id let him speak for himself. He generally is very forthcoming on advice...

[mountainviewrover]

i hope to here from him soon. mike are you out there??

[EWR]

Yeah, but I'd bet money I might know what he's thinking. ;)

[JimC]

I think most of the needed info can be extracted from the BR110 pix. Its straightforward in conception if complex in execution. The only unknowns from my standpoint are the attachment points holding the hoop to the B-pillar and how the C-Pillar integrates to the underbody structure.

[mountainviewrover]

jim, i have looked at the pictures but can make out the attchments. the bar that connects to the t-supports. that is where i want to make a strong connection with some sor of bracket. i am almost to that point and would love some expert advise. the truck is for me as a summer truck. the kids keep us busy all the time. just some added safety. so mike, if you are out there.....can you help me out??

[cgalpin]

This is what I want to do too, except I am even too cheap to go with a full cage :) I'd love to see pics as you progress though.

In the beach runner writeup Mike clearly shows the roll cage bars all connect to give the strength. i am sure making the brackets to connect the t-support to the rest of the cage is trivial and the least of your worries.

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/BeachRunner.html
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/BR110/BR11019.jpg
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/BR110/BR11020.jpg

The big cost are all the NAS roll cage bits!

[mountainviewrover]

well, i got some of it done last night. your second picture with the big green arrow is the area i am talking about. i would like to see that bracket used. i would like that bar solid because my kids and friends are going to want to hang on it.

[cgalpin]

pictures?

[mountainviewrover]

some pics with rear tire carrier, tailgate, rear cage section.

[JimC]

I can't tell if the BR 110 has the front-rear horizontal rail connected to the B-pillar hoop. I always assumed it wasnt there, but on closer inspection it seems it might have one. it seems odd that the B-pillar would be sufficient to support itself since it has to carr the rear doors. The only picture with a clue is the one from above during the fitting of the custom top - in that pic it looks like the rails are connected. It would seem like the best solution would be a tube section coming off the horizontal bar. Not having a t-piece in front of me, I would be thinking about something that would slot down into it - how about a close up of the top of the t-piece?

How are you dealing with the oval profile of the B-pillar hoop? Did you find some oval-section tubing? (I think there is such a thing). Another alternative would be to bend standad tube into the correct arc, then send it to Just Dashes to be built out and covered with textured vinyl to match the rest of the cage.

If you have any sack at all you'll paint this G4 orange, but it would look good in Bonatti grey also. I would even cheer for Borrego Yellow.

Did you have to shorten the cantrails? And also, what are you doing to the part of the cage that the (now) C-pillar hoop sits on? The seatbelt retractors mount to this normally, but it doesnt look like it would directly fit as it did in the 90.

[themaxx]

Is it possible to find another roll cage (expensive, I know), have it attached to the opposite side of the B pillar?

The part in yellow is what I'm referring to.

[JimC]

Problem is its wider than the upright and then you'd have to make the doors seal somehow.

[mountainviewrover]

pillar

[cgalpin]

If you mean the whole bar then yes you'll need to bend one up.

Damn you guys are killing me.. I'm about ready to go searching for a D90 roll cage (but need to work!).

charles

[JimC]

Yeah, I'm thinking thats perfect for something to slot down into - then cross drill it and do a nice job of bolting it up.

I see it like in the pix - 3 main parts:

1) a bracket that is l-shaped, slots down into the channel, and bolts to the "ears"
2) a tube that is welded to the horizontal rail but bolts to the bracket
3) the top hoop that perhaps also bolts to the "ears" and perhaps has a locating peg that runs down the center of the channel as well. The end might be slightly cut off to accomodate the bracket, since you just dont know how it fits until you make a part.

[ECR]

image

[JimC]

Aw, look at that. Mike really is a great American!

Now lets all call him a prick for not coming over to our places and installing the system for free.

Oops, I forgot my smiley, I get in trouble when I forget my smiley :grin

[cgalpin]

Bravo Mike!

I must say, there might even be a [small] market for this part....

charles

[ECR]

Bravo Mike!

I must say, there might even be a [small] market for this part....

charles


Yeah... right... like I would ever offer anything for sale or charge for anything on this site... :)

[mountainviewrover]

thanks mike!

[Overlander]

That 110 is going to be sweet when it's done....and I am LOVING that garage!

[mountainviewrover]

i hope i can wrap it up in time for spring/summer. i just got some prices from pendy on an automatic conversion kit. installed the windshield cage section yesturday. that went alot smoother than i thought. bolted right up to the bulkhead and fits like a glove. i am still concerned about the pillar cross bar. mike at ecr was gracious to send me the image of the br110 but it's hard to make out. pretty dark pic. i have an idea in mind that i believe will work. i will keep you guys posted on progress.

[130Tdi]

nice work Mark ! Looks very cool. Are you going to have a top made or run topless ?

[mountainviewrover]

I Think I Will Fit A Bikini Or Surrey. I Don't Want To Fork Out The Big$$ For A Badger Custom.

[cgalpin]

Surrey is the way to go. You can make one easily out of two old tickford or bestops. I made one for my D90 from a bestop and it looks great.

charles

[JimC]

You could also cut up and resize a fiberglass top if you wanted to ensure you had a winter top for it. It seems like it would just entail lenghtening the top and shortening the side panels.

What would a beach runner top from badger cost anyway? do you know?

[rmuller]

Surrey is the way to go. You can make one easily out of two old tickford or bestops. I made one for my D90 from a bestop and it looks great.

charlesGot pics/more info on how to do this? I got an old bestop that I want to turn into a Surrey

[cgalpin]

I'm not sure I have any specific pictures, but I'll see what I can dig up. Basically I cut off the windows and sewed on additional straps for the sides. I screwed in some male snap on connectors to the side bars to have the same functionality as the rear. Everything else remains the same.

charles

[cgalpin]

I looked but don't have any pictures. Don't expect to have it fitted for a few months either. Sorry.

Mark, what year D90 did the cage come from, a 95? I see you have the internal horizontal pieces which my '94 doesn't have.

charles

[mountainviewrover]

the cage came from a 94 st. i like the extra support from those horizontal pieces. more progress to come. couldn't work on it last night.

[mountainviewrover]

side runners are being fabbed and should be installed early next week. i just need to make a template for the pillar bar. i am glad that i have a steel company 1/10th of a mile from me! drove it around the building today for the first time. she's cold blooded but seems to handle surprisingly very well. more to come soon.

[mountainviewrover]

just sized up my 2-surrey tops. just need to cut the extra out of the middle and have it stiched together. boy i think it will look really good with that surrey once that is on. getting pretty excited on how it's going to turn out. looking for some disco1 alloys. if anyone has any......

[cgalpin]

Mark, did you get my email a few days ago? Just wondering as the last three emails I sent through the site yeilded no responses - not sure if there is a problem or no-one wants to reply to me :)

I'm very excited for you too, as this is something I want to do as well.

Re alloys, just a warning that I borrowed some D90 alloys while cleaning up my steelies, and the front hubs bottomed out on the alloys before seating properly so I couldn't use them. Don't know if Disco alloys are deeper, but beware. Probably nothing a dremel wouldn't solve though.

charles

[mountainviewrover]

charles, all the research that i have done points to disco series 1 wheels will work. but, you will most likely lose the center cap. the deep dish style is what i want to go with. did you send the email what is on my signature at the bottom of every posts. it should go thru and i do check my email daily. i don't use the yahoo acct any longer so that one was turned off. thanks

[cgalpin]

Ok, sounds like It might have gone to the wrong address then - I used whatever the site has on record (you don't get to see it).

I don't know about the deep dish rims, so do let us know how that works out. I'd still try test fit one on the front before buying.

charles

[130Tdi]

Mark,

Charles came out this weekend and we tried one of the "deep dish" on the rear hub. It does fit, you just loose the center cap as you indicated. Charles then tried it with a 30mm spacer I had lying around and that pushed it way too far out.

[mountainviewrover]

doug, thanks for the info. bidding on some right now on ebay. i'll post picks when i install them.

[cgalpin]

Just FYI, it's the fronts on my truck that bottomed out (the rears fit fine too).

If your front hubs do not stick out further than the rear then you will be ok, but if they do, then I do not believe the deep dish rims are any deeper where it matters.

Good meeting you this weekend Doug!

charles

[cgalpin]

First Mark, we need an update! How is it going? More pics please!

Second, here are some pictures I took to try describe the hub depth issue for alloys. It shows how my front hubs stick out about 0.5 inch more than the rears. The alloys fit on the rear, not the front. I suggest measuring yours.

http://lhsw.com/gallery/janeyWheels

hth
charles

[JimC]

All you need is longer wheel studs to fix the problem right?

[aricea]

Longer studs with the spacer rings might do the trick. If you've got the same hub clearance issue, another option (obviously) is going to non-LR wheels. I bought these 17" Pirelli alloys from George at RDS a few years back. They've got a more generous hub opening than the LR ones...

Good luck. Your project is looking good!

[cgalpin]

No Jim, as Aric says it's the hub opening size that needs to be bigger (well, deeper).

I'm willing to bet this has been solved 10 times over in the UK with aftermarket rims like the Pirelli's mentioned above.

Good looking truck Aric!

charles

[JSBriggs]

mike at ecr was gracious to send me the image of the br110 but it's hard to make out. pretty dark pic. i have an idea in mind that i believe will work. i will keep you guys posted on progress.

Try this.



As for the older style axles, there are enough RRC and Disco's out there that it would be easy enough to get one.

-Jeff

[mountainviewrover]

jeff, thanks. now i can see it. did you just lighten his image?
side runners are installed now they fit like a glove and look factory correct. i have been trying to finish the wife's wrangler 95% done with her truck. jumped over to a disco i just bought. lifted it 2" and put 265's with steelies on. got a good deal on that truck. good winter driver. i hope to work on the 110 some more this week. hope those deep dish alloys show up soon. more to come.

[cgalpin]

Mark, how's the conversion going? We need more pics!

[mountainviewrover]

put a hitch and rear steps on. fabbed up the bar to connect the t-supports yesturday. not installed yet but the bar is made and it will work and look great once i design and install the mounting brackets. cutting the second bracket design today. i will post some more pictures soon. i bought some used tuffy boxes for the rear. still waiting for the alloys i bought. think i am going to put 285's mtrs on them. i could use some running boards for this truck. it sits really high! wonder if i could trade my d90 running boards to someone for 110 boards? more to come soon.

Follow-up Post:

picture of new bar that will be installed.

[JimC]

RDS had some of the "tomb radier" style running boards a while back. Those are the kind that are a single thicker tube, sit up tighter to the sill, and have chequer plate on top. I think they'd be a good look on a ST 110.

Is Chris at Badger making you a top?

Follow-up Post:

Oh, do you think you should paint the b-pillar above the door caps black? That way it would match the door tops. Just a thought.

[mountainviewrover]

wow jim, you must be a mind reader. i was just telling someone that i wanted to paint the b-pillars to match the rest of the cage.

i have 2 surrey tops that i am going to have stitched together once i get to that point.

[cgalpin]

Looking good Mark!

[cgalpin]

Hey Mark, did you run into any issues with the spare tire carrier mounting brackets interfering with the rear tail light positions?

thanks
charles

[mountainviewrover]

no, that tail light was fine where it was. but, i did moved them down to where the reverse and red fog lights were. and i am using my rear work light as a reverse light. i had to move those down because of how the corner cage brackets mounted. doug's alloys look good on his 110. i can't wait until mine get here. i like that look alot better.

[mountainviewrover]

deep dish alloys mounted. the look makes a world of difference. kind of strange i put alloys on the 110 and steelies on the disco. more pics to come.

[cgalpin]

Yes more pictures!

Mark, do you have your roll bar mounted yet? Have any close ups of the top of the B pillars?

I visited a friend with a tube bender this weekend to shoot some ideas off him for doing a "cheap" topless setup. The current plan is a simple hoop between the two pillars, and some internal bracing of the pillars. One thing that occurred to me was that the ears at the top of the pillar are going to look pretty darn weird.

I'd like to see how yours ends up looking, even though yours has all the other cage bits.

[mountainviewrover]

Charles,

We Just Got A Bunch Of Snow. I Will Get Some Shots Out When I Can. I Haven't Put The B-pillar Bar On Yet But It's Made. Moe To Come Soon. Still Looking For 6-7 Alloy Lugs.

[mountainviewrover]

Still Have Some Work To Do. It Was Nice Today So I Thought I Would Pull Her Out And Take A Couple Pictures.

Follow-up Post:

The Pillar Bar Was Fabbed Using A Cj Cage That I Extended About 8" Longer. The Surrey Top Is On There So I Can See Where I Need To Cut And Stitch To Make It Fit. I Will Have To Make The A Longer Snap Rail So I Can Fasten It. I Did Some Patch Work On The Frame Where There Was Weak Spots, Almost Done With That. I Need To Install The 2 Front Flares. Secure The Tuffy Boxes. I Cut Out A Hole In The Bottom Of The Left Side For Deep Storage. The Little Jump Seats Need To Installed With Belts........the List Goes On But It Ought To Fun This Summer.

Still Looking For A Few More Lug Nuts?!!

[JimC]

Right on!

[cgalpin]

Awesome! More pics without the top please!

[Grover]

Looks great!!!

[themaxx]

I'm digging your beach runner! Saw this on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-Defender-110-Canvas-Top-with-windows_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ013QQi temZ230227522316QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW), not sure if it would fit though.

[cgalpin]

I don't think so. That's more suited to what I'm trying to do, although I'd still need the hoops and they do not appear to be cheap either.

[JimC]

I think the beach runner is the superior concept, but this arrangement from a supplier in the UK seems to be a "one stop" solution to make an acceptable 110 SW soft top without going the full-NAS route. It might be the best answer for Janey. Certainly less fabrication. Scroll all the way to the bottom:

http://www.allwheeltrim.co.uk/LR-Mohair.html#Mohair

ECR has worked on one of these trucks, and its shows the drawbacks of the system:

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/100.html

[130Tdi]

Quite a transformation from the truck Gavin sold you. Looks great !


Jim C since you have a link for everything- I'm looking for a tonneau (sp?) cover for the bed of a 110 pickup.
I can't seem to find any ready made and ready to ship- trying to get the truck out of the uk next week. I want to cover some goodies lying in the bed ,second row doors, late style rear top sides etc...

[cgalpin]

Damn my memory is shot. I have seen both those pages before and forgotten about them.

I like that top, and is essentially what I'd need if I ever wanted a full soft top, but I'll see how things go with my current "CB runner" plans. I've got $76 invested in tubing for the B pillar hoop (shipped), and about a grand into the back door conversion. To make a surrey top, I need 2 old bestops, make some hoops for the rear support and get the channel for the top of the windshield (and maybe some nas style windshield trim).

Doug, good idea on the tonneau cover to make customs a breeze. Worst case, have someone box them up into a big box so at least stuff isn't sliding around.

charles

[JimC]

There's a tonneau at the bottom of this page for the 110 "low-cap" - but I don't see anything but a tilt for the hi cap. I assume you're bringing in a hi cap? I've never seen a hi cap tonneau.

[130Tdi]

Thanks Jim,

I had seen that- looks like they sell bows for a cover but the cover pictured is for a 100" inch hybrid.
I sent them an email asking about a full size cover for a 110 utility with a pickup cab.

There are numerous Ifor Williams tops for Hi-Caps on ebay for short money. Unfortunately every hi-cap I have found looks like it's been beaten to death so this is a 110 regular/commercial/utility.

[JimC]

I meant the bottom of this page:

http://www.allwheeltrim.co.uk/defender.html#Defender

There's one for the soft cab, and another entry for just the cover. I dont know what fixings are required...

[130Tdi]

outstanding- Thanks Jim !

[Bozman]

Get the blue one!!

[JimC]

Blue looks great with all colors of Rovers - especially Bonatti Grey and Bronze Green!

[mountainviewrover]

These Are For You Charles.

[cgalpin]

Happy Monday!

thanks,
charles

[JimC]

It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

You really do need those lug nuts don't you?

[evilfij]

How many lugnuts do you need?

[JimC]

I think he needs 3...

Also, I think I still need lugs for the alloys I got from you with Yeastie.

[evilfij]

JimC,

I gave you a box of them for yeastie. It went in the back of the yellow truck. What you are remembering is that you owe me a set of the steelie lugnuts we were supposed to swap out :-)

Ron

[mountainviewrover]

6 Lugs Still Needed. Ron, Do You Have Some?

[evilfij]

Let me look under the bed. I think I have a set that is about 18 or so I can part with some from that.

Be in touch tomorrow.

[cgalpin]

Damn that makes me want to go that route... holding back the desire though!

Quick question for you Mark - if you drew a line across the B pillar at the height of the "ears", what the length from that to the top of the roll bar on that?

Also, does anyone know if an old school hoop set stand the same height as the nas cage or are they appreciably different?

thanks
charles

[JimC]

JimC,

I gave you a box of them for yeastie. It went in the back of the yellow truck. What you are remembering is that you owe me a set of the steelie lugnuts we were supposed to swap out :-)

Ron

Yeah, you're right!

[mountainviewrover]

Charles, I Cant Really Give You An Exact Measurement. I Didn't Use The Ears In This Application. The Ears Are Acutally Now Under The New Bar Mounting Plate. It Is Pretty Close In Relation To The Factory C-pillar Height.

That Sounds Good Ron. Let Me Know. 6 Is What I Need.

[Gventure]

These Are For You Charles.
Dang - I sure wish I had a 110 to turn into the piece you've made! Mark, that is awesome - great work.

Regards,

Gavin

[mountainviewrover]

gavin, i've done a few things to it since it was delivered. make me an offer and it could be yours again. i still am holding on to all the pieces i took off. just in case.

[evilfij]

shoot me an email.

evilfij at yahoo

[cgalpin]

Thanks Mark. I'll just measure the C pillar height on my D90 then. Even though I don't have a cage, I want to make my single hoop the appropriate height.

thanks
charles

[mountainviewrover]

any pics of your"s???

Follow-up Post:

ron, my email got kicked back. maybe it thought it was spam. send me a pm instead. thanks

[mountainviewrover]

Ron,

Did You Find Any Lugs Under The Bed?

[JSBriggs]

Mark,
Instead of installing the flares on the front, have you considered removing the ones from the rear?

I actually like the look and clearance without the flares.

-Jeff

[JimC]

Still have to do something about the gap between the fender and inner fender if you do that. The flare ties it all together

[mountainviewrover]

jeff, i would have to agree with jim. the fronts flares will go back on soon.

[mountainviewrover]

more pics

[130Tdi]

Mark,

Looks like at least a 2 inch lift. What did you use ? Spacers or springs ?

[themaxx]

Mark, that looks really nice. Other than a full top and lugs, what else is there to do?

[ECR]

In looking at the photos I assume you built this to be a surrey/bikini top only??

The placement of the roll bar by the rear door won't leave you any room for a seal or gutter kit.
Just trying to get my head around it. :) :)

[mountainviewrover]

ade, the only other thing i really need besides what you mentioned is a tune-up and fluids.

doug, i bought the 110 from gavin just how it is. it has new bilsteins and new lr springs. no spacers.

mike(fidel), it's strickly just a summer truck for me. i'll run the bikini until september then park it.

i want to go automatic but i am going to wait until next year.

[cgalpin]

Mike, did you guys shorten the cage then on your Beach Runners?

[ECR]

Yes, the cage is shortened and the tub cappings are a blend of the 110 and the 90 ones so that we can still run the shoulder inertia seat belts for the middle seat passengers (and have them in the right place for the "over the shoulder" use), and all the cage points are tied into the frame with tube/ brackets.

Thats cool if it just gets a surrey, it'll be a lot of fun. :) :)
I was just wondering... lots of different ways to skin a cat.

[cgalpin]

the tub cappings are a blend of the 110 and the 90 ones so that we can still run the shoulder inertia seat belts for the middle seat passengers (and have them in the right place for the "over the shoulder" use)

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but what do you mean by "the tub cappings" - I'm having trouble visualizing it and how it relates to the seatbelts.

[JimC]

I assume since the 110 retractors mount to the window pillar and the 90 soft top belts mount to the portion of the cage below the capping, that ECR modifies the rear capping of the 110 to have the "wide spot" like on the fore section of the 90 capping where the 2" hole goes through it.