EGR Valve help...

[bharris]

I took my defender in to have the "emmissions inspection" done (can't run it on a dyno here because the wheelbase is too short for anyone in Colorado apparently) and was told that my EGR valve had been removed. He told me where it was supposed to be (see picture) but what the shop manual shows doesn't make a lot of sense unless there are multiple hoses missing in which case... where the hell do they go?

can anyone tell me what parts I'll need for this?

-sometimes a shop manual is completely rubish...

[Chaucer]

Yeah that's where the EGR goes, where that blanking plate is. There are multiple hoses that basically recirculate the exhaust gasses back into the intake...you might need to get a bunch of hoses and install them for the inspection.

[artm]

So, you happened upon the only guy in CO who knows what a 300Tdi looks like? Or are all emissions techs that knowledgeable there? Man, what a bad state!

Here's the pages from the manual. You'll need a few things to reconstruct the system. What you should have done was unplug the system but leave it installed - just for these special occassions. :)

You can try telling the guy that this model doesn't have EGR but it sounds like this guy won't hear it even if true. You may be better off going to another station.

Don't tell me they actually test diesel emissions there - and on a passenger vehicle?

[bharris]

Don't tell me they actually test diesel emissions there - and on a passenger vehicle?yes they do... they can't test the d90 though because the wheelbase is too short for any of the testing stations in the state on an all-wheel drive vehicle... so they inspect it and one of the things on the check list is the EGR... mine is missing and looks like a pita to find all the parts and get it back in (don't need a working one though, just all the parts so it looks like it could work)

[JimC]

Go over to lr4x4.com - a guy was just recently pulling off an EGR system. I'm also blown away that the guy figured it out.

[aosias]

I don't know if you can do it or not since you have a diesel but I had my 90 tested on the dyno here in Denver. It was the Clean Air Colorado off Evans. Also, I registered a jeep in Summit County a while agao since they don't require emissions up there- if you know someone out of the front range who can let you "live" with them.

[bharris]

I don't know if you can do it or not since you have a diesel but I had my 90 tested on the dyno here in Denver. It was the Clean Air Colorado off Evans. Also, I registered a jeep in Summit County a while agao since they don't require emissions up there- if you know someone out of the front range who can let you "live" with them.Diesel emmission centers are different from the "Clean Air Coloroado" centers. The Diesel centers charge ~3x the ammount as well... but none of them can accomidate a short wheelbase all-wheel drive vehicle.

UGH!!

[junkyddog11]

I took my defender in to have the "emmissions inspection" done (can't run it on a dyno here because the wheelbase is too short for anyone in Colorado apparently) and was told that my EGR valve had been removed. He told me where it was supposed to be (see picture) but what the shop manual shows doesn't make a lot of sense unless there are multiple hoses missing in which case... where the hell do they go?

can anyone tell me what parts I'll need for this?

-sometimes a shop manual is completely rubish...

Just because it has the plate does not mean that it had EGR. Thats where EGR would be IF FITTED. ROW motors don't have it, and I'm not sure when it was first fitted. I have a 98 Disco motor that has (had) it and a 95 motor that doesn't (which would be the correct "age related" motor for your rig.....not that any of it is "correct for USA)....also have a 2005 motor that has no EGR.

To fit you would need the correct injection pump, all the electronics, the vacuum valves and all the hose parts and a pile of $$$$.

[bharris]

Just because it has the plate does not mean that it had EGR. Thats where EGR would be IF FITTED. ROW motors don't have it, and I'm not sure when it was first fitted. I have a 98 Disco motor that has (had) it and a 95 motor that doesn't (which would be the correct "age related" motor for your rig.....not that any of it is "correct for USA)....also have a 2005 motor that has no EGR.

To fit you would need the correct injection pump, all the electronics, the vacuum valves and all the hose parts and a pile of $$$$.The more I learn about this the more worried I'm becoming... not sure they'll pass it without an EGR...

What the inspector told me was that the only reason they allow these engines at all is because at one point LR certified the engines in the U.S. (maybe with the EGR?) but never marketed them. He also pulled up old records where he had actually inspected this truck personally soon after the conversion and found it had the EGR valve but the vacuum hose wasn't hooked up...

the valve has since been removed...

I'm worried now that it might not have ever had the rest of the system.

They don't even care if it works, it's just a visual inspection and they want to see the pieces there...

[artm]

Well, then there's your answer. If all he wants to see is the valve then you're out on the cheap. Did you ask him if that's all he wants to see? You say "all the pieces"...

I assume you checked and do not have the rest of the system present? So, he inspected it and only wanted to see the valve. Easy fix!

I always thought 1996 was the starting point fro these being fitted.

[bharris]

Well, then there's your answer. If all he wants to see is the valve then you're out on the cheap. Did you ask him if that's all he wants to see? You say "all the pieces"...

I assume you checked and do not have the rest of the system present? So, he inspected it and only wanted to see the valve. Easy fix!

I always thought 1996 was the starting point fro these being fitted.apparently he failed this truck in 2001 for having the valve but not having the vacuum hose hooked up... so it does need to all be there and _look_ like it would work...

if they weren't fitted before 1996 I may have an out... but since it's a retrofit I may get nailed...

anybody know where I might look to find out what certification LR ever did with one of these engines and when??

[artm]

Wait...was it passed last year? At a different place? Why not go back to that guy?

On another note...I can't imagine LR certifying this engine after 1996 or even close to that. Why, when they were already pulling the truck out of this market?

That would suggest a non-EGR model unless, of course, it was specifically called for for this country.

[bharris]

Wait...was it passed last year? At a different place? Why not go back to that guy?

On another note...I can't imagine LR certifying this engine after 1996 or even close to that. Why, when they were already pulling the truck out of this market?

That would suggest a non-EGR model unless, of course, it was specifically called for for this country.It looks like it hasn't actually been inspected since 2001, I'm afraid I may have poised the water by going to someone else to have it inspected... I'm not sure I dare take it in without having done _something_ to get the EGR system in place

[Andrew Vick]

Register it up here :) No testage.

[Buckon37s]

Try going to a different station. That guy takes his job too seriously. You'd be surprised what you can get away with.

[JimC]

I've heard the certification rumor for the Td5 and 300Tdi before. It would be a coup if these rumors were correct and enthusiasts could get their hands on the paperwork.

[junkyddog11]

I might have some of the bits hanging around here, but even putting it together for the visual... as in hooking up the vacuum system, will be a bitch.

I would think that being pre OBDII you wouldn't have to comply with this. The EGR wasn't fitted (to the best of my knowledge) until '96. You should only have to comply with the emmision regs age related to your vehicle.

[bharris]

Alright, so it sounds like the guy I bought the truck from has a few EGR bits hanging around that he's going to pass over to me so I can head that direction if I need too. I also found out who he's been getting the inspection done by so I may just try going somewhere else as I'm feeling like this engine shouldn't be required to have the EGR at all...

[artm]

Curious: when the inspector inputs your vehicle info/VIN does the system offer diesel as an option for this truck? I doubt it - it doesn't here in Mass. It must be inputted manually.

So, where is he getting the requirement for EGR? Unless it's a general requirement for all 1994 vehicles - which may be true since EGR has been around for years.

[Chaucer]

When I had my 300Tdi emissions test, I had the same issue (no EGR); but here they do the snap test and the tail pipe opacity test only. I guess I lucked out.

Please let us know how it goes so that others in your shoes can benefit from your experience and we all hope it is a positive one!

[bharris]

Re: where is the inspector getting the EGR requirement - what he tells me is that although never marketed here the engine was certified for use in the U.S. and supposedly that was one of the pieces that makes them usable here. He also said that people have been inporting an isuzu diesel and putting them in toyotas but they can never pass because the engines were never certified for U.S. use...

Most diesels here get a dyno run so existance or non-existance of an EGR is not relivant it just matters how much smoke you're producing, however, the apparently deadly combination of short wheelbase, all-time all-wheel drive, and diesel means that nobody can run a dyno on it (only people, apparently, that can do the all-wheel drive diesel has a minimum wheelbase requirement over 100 inches) so it's visual inspection only...

[artm]

"Deadly combination"...I'd say you're rather lucky all you need is a visual inspection.

For your immediate problem just go to another shop, assuming you're not flagged in the system.

Then get all the bits from the seller and slap them on. The hardest part would be the control on top of the pump, although if Matt's right about it being a different pump altogether then you'll have to get more creative to pass the visual test! I thought the pumps were identical just the top plate being different.

[Chaucer]

Hmm...that sounds very anecdotal. Everything I've seen states the engine was never certified by the EPA for road use (or any use for that matter).

[artm]

I agree. Why would LR bother to get certification for a diesel for use here when it would never fly at that time (it hardly flies now) and go against all their market research that a V8 is what sells in their vehicles?

[bharris]

I agree with that assessment as well... seems like a pile of...

just reporting what the inspector told me...

[outfield]

How about pulling the front drive line, locking the center diff and running it on the dyno in rear wheel drive only?

[bharris]

How about pulling the front drive line, locking the center diff and running it on the dyno in rear wheel drive only?that's a great idea...

if I can't get it through with a visual I'll try that...

[rgrrvr]

or just take a floor jack with you and jack up one end of the truck?? surprised they dont have one in the shop.

[tmore]

If anyone has the egr parts laying around let me know i would like to buy some . I figure I would rather be safe than sorry when I go for my state inspection..
Installed for the visual effect only of course.

[artm]

...and the panic begins!

[tmore]

I figure I would give it a shot before my Defender became a Park County ( no emissions test ) resident.

[junkyddog11]

"Then get all the bits from the seller and slap them on. The hardest part would be the control on top of the pump, although if Matt's right about it being a different pump altogether then you'll have to get more creative to pass the visual test! I thought the pumps were identical just the top plate being different.
I'm not 100% on the pump. It is a different part # and has some different linkage parts and the Discovery pump I was looking at is very different than the Defender (ROW) pump next to it.....that said, I think you may be able to get the control on the pump ok at least for visual inspection purposes.

[bharris]

I go the name of the guy that was doing the inspections on this truck (and passing it) previously and gave him a call to look at it again. He passed it without any problem at all :). I can't even describe what a relief that is for me. If anyone wants his contact information drop me a line or just contact the Broomfield testing center for your inspection...

-Brad

[artm]

Oh, no. Did you just spill the beans on this guy?! I suggest you contact the admin and fix this.