Defender Returns to North America Merged Threadfest

[D110XD]

Posted in german www.off-road-forum.de (http://www.off-road-forum.de):

It appears the rumors are true: The legendary Land Rover Defender will be re-introduced to the North American market in 2007 (as a 2008 model).

How different will it be? For starters, it will have the requisite air bags - a major cause for it being pulled back in 1997. It will have to be easier to assemble - the previous style was largely built by hand. And it will have a newer, more modern body design on a steel frame.

More good news: Short-wheelbase, long-wheelbase, and soft-top versions are in the works, although it is still unclear how many of these versions might be bound for North America.

The downside? No V-8's are projected. Gasoline engines will come from Ford: a direct-injection four with variable timing, a 3.0-liter Duratec V-6, and for the U.S. only, a 3.8-liter V-6. Peugeot will supply a 2.7-liter turbodiesel V-6 for Europe (though the in-the-know Rover enthusiast crowd here in the States has already started the grumbling about no TDi diesel - so perhaps their jawwing will not fall on deaf ears.

Land Rover's managing director, Matthew Taylor said, "The Defender is important. It is one of the few genuine auto icons. Our challenge now is to see how we can successfully take it forward and make it a 21st Century icon"

As far as being easier to assemble, Land Rover is moving to simplify it platforms from four to two. (60 percent of the new Discovery, for instance, is constructed by automation and it's rumored that Ford wants the same level of assembly automation in use for the new Defender.) As such, Automotive News reports that the next Defender will use Land Rover's new T5 platform architecture, the same body-on-chassis platform used for the new Discovery 3 / LR3 and upcoming Range Stormer or Range Rover Sport (the newest mini-Range Rover slated for upcoming release.)

Land Rover sells about 27,000 Defenders a year to the rest of the world. It's high time it set its sights on North America again, where the mighty Defender's legendary off-road prowess will be put to good use.




I hope, it will stay a Offroader and not become a SUV...


Michael

[JBurt]

I've got this awful suspicion it will look like a 2 door Montero.

[norros]

Excellent post... but... we've been hearing the same thing since...


In any case, we'll all see.

On a more 'reality' based note... we 'Americans' will be able to import some Defender's legally in 2008. I'm really thinking of doing that when the time comes.

Does anyone know what year they starting producing the Defender Pickup ? That's starting to look real tempting.

:)

Nicholas Orros

[rover4x4]

A high cap 110 will def be my next Defender, I am not sure when they started those but it seems there has always been a "pickup" of some description throughout the Land Rover Series/Defender lifespan

[norros]

High cap sounds killer.


I'm thinking of something a little smaller, kind of like this one (see pic)... without the RR wheels though.
I don't know what model this is... Did they just call it 'pickup' ? Anyone eh ?


N

[rover4x4]

I think thats the high cap??

Follow-up Post:

http://rebornco.com/Landrovers/2004defender110pu/04d110d.jpg

http://rebornco.com/defender110/d1103.jpg

My favorites

[souza]

FYI, that article is also on Atlantic British's website:

http://www.roverparts.com/Vehicle_Reviews_LR_Defender_2007.html

and similar info and the same pictures are on MotorTrend's site:

http://motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0407_sketchpad_landrover/

I look forward to seeing and hearing more about these new designs.

[norros]

Yeah, those articles and countless others... SS/DD.

---

In any case, Rover4x4 (what is your name ??), YES! that first pic is the one I want, and it's got the NAS style wheels as well (tornado/freestyle...whatever their name is). I don't like the external cage thing on it, but that's it. One day, I'm going to import one...
I'll have to do some research in a bit, or maybe someone can chime in who is fully 'versed' on the 'pickup'.

Cool Beanz.


Nicholas

[dchapman]

It's twin http://automobiles.honda.com/new_models/ridgeline_specs.asp

Follow-up Post:

Yeah, those articles and countless others... SS/DD.

---

In any case, Rover4x4 (what is your name ??), YES! that first pic is the one I want, and it's got the NAS style wheels as well (tornado/freestyle...whatever their name is). I don't like the external cage thing on it, but that's it. One day, I'm going to import one...
I'll have to do some research in a bit, or maybe someone can chime in who is fully 'versed' on the 'pickup'.

Cool Beanz.


Nicholas


I saw one for sale not long ago. It was green. May have been on LRX????? I'm thinking it was located in MA.

[rover4x4]

I am not sure how people are able to get those trucks over here. I think there are also some CKD's making thier way over. Anyways not trying to make this another how to get who has the hook up thread, only three more years till they are 'legal"

[dmarchand]

It's twin http://automobiles.honda.com/new_models/ridgeline_specs.asp

Follow-up Post:




I saw one for sale not long ago. It was green. May have been on LRX????? I'm thinking it was located in MA.


Yes, here it is.... :eek:
http://www.copleymotorcars.com/land_rover5_35.3vo685.html

[D110XD]

High cap sounds killer.


I'm thinking of something a little smaller, kind of like this one (see pic)... without the RR wheels though.
I don't know what model this is... Did they just call it 'pickup' ? Anyone eh ?


NHi!

This 110 is the standard "non-hi capacity pickup". Basically a normal 110 Hardtop/Softtop without the Hardtop. Just a LR "Truck Cab" mounted. This Model has been available from the beginning of the "Defender era".
You can mount this Truck Cab on every 88/109 or 90/110...If you've got a Station, you only need the Tailgate additionally.

I think the 110 Hi Capacity and the 127/130 CrewCab has been produced from the late 80s or from the middle of the 90s on. They have got an extra load bed instead of the standard "integrated" one mentioned above. They're exceptionally good for people who want a camper conversion...
http://www.safari-centre.com/Fahrzeugumbauten/fahrzeugumbauten.html
www.safari-centre.com (http://www.safari-centre.com/)

Michael

[norros]

Michael,


Great breakdown, and thanks for not getting pissed b/c your thread is getting HIJACKED !! LOL.
I really like the 'middle' 2 of the pics you posted.

I'm figuring by 2008, I can go to the UK or elsewhere, find a cheap 1983 Defender Pickup for say maybe $5k ?, then legally import it then.

Thanks.

David,

Yeah, that one is awesome... too rich for my blood though. What a beast !

:)

Nicholas Orros

[rover4x4]

I think the truck @ Copley is a joke I dont see how anyone could ask that much for a Defender. I say 40k at best.

[jabber]

High cap sounds killer.

I'm thinking of something a little smaller, kind of like this one (see pic)... without the RR wheels though.
I don't know what model this is... Did they just call it 'pickup' ? Anyone eh ?

N

That one looks like a standard 110 with a pick up cab. I thought the Hi-Cap had a different style bed to accommodate the heavier load.

[rover4x4]

it does have a differnt "box" configuration

[jabber]

I was thinking more like the photos in Mike Richter's post the middle two.... The second photo is a reg pickup and the third is the HiCap. Nicholas's post looks more like the second photo rather than the third.

[whistler110]

The 110 Truck cab, which is not the Hi-Cap, was available in 84. Here's one in Alberta, http://www.buysell.com/showad.asp?id=29072301.

They are not that uncommon and can be made using any 3 door 110 and and a truck cab.

[luizd90]

More picutres about new land rover defender t5

please

[Kev Baldwin]

Okay guys, this info comes from Land Rovers head of press in the UK who i happened to be talking to a few weeks ago.

Current Defender will switch a new engine in 2006 to get the model to comply with Euro emissions regs. This will be the Ford 'Puma' diesel engine.

New Defender should see the light of day in 2008. Expect it to be based on the LR3 platform so yes, that means independent suspension. No other clues other than that.

Current Defender production will crossover with new Defender production until at least 2010, which kinda suggests new Defender will not be a stripped down 'working' truck.

Kev

[wicks]

So they're going to do the Hummer vs. H2 thing. ;)

Sucks. Perhaps by 2010 they'll be able to make it fly and then it all won't matter.

[whistler110]

Or by 2010 the outcry will be enough that they won't dicontinue the old Defender. Ford has gone through this before when they tried to replace the Mustang with the probe.

The above photos of the Bronco I've seen from a Ford source but the Defenders I think were someones rendition using the Bronco layout. The Bronco was not a copy of the Defender as some have thought it is a modernization of the first generation Broncos similer to what has happened to the T-bird and Mustang. I actually hope they release the Bronco, it's about time Ford got back into the small off roader game again instead of trying to use the Defender.

[boshea]

I dredged those photos up a long time ago...found them on some random site in the UK...they were also posted on Motor Trend along with some video of a prototype. That article with Matt Taylor...is also a year old. So much can change in a year....like the focus of a company, which most of us have witnessed with the advent of the LR III.

Honestly...I really don't care anymore. As I mentioned earlier in one of my posts...the Defenders that we know and love will be a radical departure from anything that Ford decides to roll out on our side of the pond...

:crazy

No idea... I saw them on a couple sites here and there but dont remember where these came from.

[jabber]

Honestly...I really don't care anymore. As I mentioned earlier in one of my posts...the Defenders that we know and love will be a radical departure from anything that Ford decides to roll out on our side of the pond...
:crazy

I second that.... Just look at any "progression" made in the auto industry. Vehicles are getting more "comfy" and more electronics to confuse us. The Hummer is a perfect example. The H2 is shit compared to the H1, in my opinion.

Also, isn't it true at Billings, every year, they completely tear down and build up a Series vehicle in a day or two. Now that is AWESOME!

[Chris Cox]

That seems to be the trend of all vehicles. I am going to order a 2006 F-350 for the same reason. The F series was always meant to be a tough working line of trucks. Now they put coil springs on the front axle because people claimed the ride was too harsh. Hell, if the people used the truck loaded down, like it was intended to be, you couldn't get a better ride. I am just scared that Ford is really going to F-up the new F250/350 for 2007. As far as the H2 goes, it is just an overpriced 2500HD with an ugly body. H1's have been getting "plusher" every year also.

[rustydefender]

Is the British military dumping the defender all together now?

[scoloco]

Is the British military dumping the defender all together now?
Last I heard, MoD is a large factor in Defender still being in production. May be wrong on this tho'. I suspect that until they find an acceptible substitute, Defenders will continue to roll off the production line.
-scott

[norros]

Saw this beauty on eBay... It's a restored 1983 110 Pickup 3.5 v8...

Buy it now of $16,900... pretty neat, and it's in the U.S.

I still think waiting another few years and importing one for less is the route I'll go.

In any case, here's the linK:

http://ebay.carad.com/viewItem/viewAllPhotos.cfm?listing=1761177&template=48

and a pic...


N

[ALPHAMALE]

I've read the D-90 is comming back to the US. Does anyone know when it would be avaliable? Can one get on a wait list? If it is comming back does anyone know if it is going to be a similar style as the 97's or are the going to ruin the truck and copy what hummer did with the H2.

[dmarchand]

Please use the search function of this site first.

[ALPHAMALE]

no info found on search

[TwisteD90]

Yes the D90 is coming at the end of this year, if you searched that's what you would find.

[flippedrover]

Yes the D90 is coming at the end of this year, if you searched that's what you would find.
And Mike's truck will run for more that a week without breaking :tounge

[ALPHAMALE]

Thanks for the help guys ...I' suck at the internet!!

[Mike Hippert]

1 chit chat
2 already covered

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4577
http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2583
http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1262

[Rod Hayward]

Hey Jacques, with a name like ALPHAMALE, living in Ely, would it be a good guess that you're a musher?

I suck at the internet too! :)

Rod

[whitelandy]

Is there any current information on this topic? Those postings are from 04. I have not read anything from edmunds, motor trend, LR Headquaters, other publications, etc.

Sounds like we still have a few years till they come here, like 2007 or 2008 at the earliest.

[dmarchand]

It'll never happen.

Never.

Think about it. If it was an '07, you would see concept cars and masked models being tested (like the new and improved freelander). Or the new and improved land cruiser.

Nothing has been built. The only way I could see it "maybe" happening, is if Ford reintroduces the Bronco. Then they would just rebadge it, upscale it in the market and another basterdized rover would be born.

Not happening.


Ever.

And i'm an optimist.

[whitelandy]

agree

[OCD90]

Again, fresh from LRNA, there are NO plans to bring it here before the end of the decade. They'll be at cpapcity filling non-US orders for years, and it's not worth the effort getting it sanitized for the US.

[whitelandy]

Yousef,

Care to enlighten us?

[dmarchand]

It's sarcasm. Yousef tends to use it... :)

[norros]

I really think we need to have a 'page' dedicated to this topic right BEFORE they (they meaning 'newbies' who see a D90 on the highway, hear some garbled bullshit from their friends and think that 'they' will be more successful in importing one and come here for someone to TYPE OUT everything for them) create a username on the D90 Source, or at the very least a 'sticky'. :)

Just my opinion.

Nicholas

[dmarchand]

I really think we need to have a 'page' dedicated to this topic right BEFORE they (they meaning 'newbies' who see a D90 on the highway, hear some garbled bullshit from their friends and think that 'they' will be more successful in importing one and come here for someone to TYPE OUT everything for them) create a username on the D90 Source, or at the very least a 'sticky'. :)

Just my opinion.

Nicholas

Nah, it's more fun spreading rumors.

[Ragland]

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhh. Seeing this again reminds me of Bill Murray waking up everyday to Cher and Bono.

The dear Defender, as we know and love, is gone.

Just like that girl you should have called back in your last year of college but instead you drank too much, lost her number, and went to see some crappy band with the guys. The chance has past.

I'm sorry if you were only 15 back in '95, and one sat for six months at the local Land Rover dealer and dad said wait until next year.

Likewise, I'm sorry if you old enough to have off sent $10 to get a brochure explaining how it was possible to find a $44 jeep in a crate.

Motor Trend runs rumors like a grocery store tabloid. But no matter how much you hope, it is just as likely that Bat Boy, the Yetti, and an alien will suddenly appear at the Land Rover dealer three years from now. And they, too, will be waiting for the new Defender.

[Matt Taylor]

I used to love Bat Boy. I followed his story every week.

Whoever was writing that was having a good time...and was a genius.

F'ing bat boy, for chrissakes.

[scoloco]

I used to love Bat Boy. I followed his story every week.
Whoever was writing that was having a good time...and was a genius.


I have a batboy t-shirt! :pimp

[Ragland]

I spoke too soon. It appears Bat Boy has already learned the Defender won't be coming back.

[roverboy]

who the f is batboy? lololol

[Jimbo]

Guys
Forget it, the new "premium" strategy means that if it can't carry a $50K and above price tag LR wont sell it. Here in the UAE I had some of the guys tell me that us using 110's didn't "fit the corproate image we are trying to build"!! YA, serious LR3's and the new Supercharged RR is what it's all about, not lest we forget the Freelander but Defender NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not premium enough. That's when you know the average guy around here who has a RR probably has one or more D-90 for fun in the desert (ya he might have cash but doesn't feel like getting his face chewed off by the dealer each time he goes out to the desert "will that be a new bumper or just the skirt?"). Remember this is the premium Motor group now, we don't make LR's anymore this is a fashion statement. Gosh even around here where you might think they would make an effort their figures show the sales are flat: no wonder they only import the TD5 once a year - stocks run dry after 2 weeks actually most of the units are pre-sold for @$35K before they hit the shore.
Good luck getting anything guys.

[Matt Taylor]

I actually went to see "Bat Boy the Musical." I'm not much on musicals or plays and whatnot, but when I saw an ad in the paper describing a musical based on the tragic story of Batboy, I had to go check it out.

It was actually really good. Totally tongue-in- cheeck and hysterical. I thought I was the only one who thought the Batboy story was hysterical, but apparently a lot of people saw the humor in that, to the extent that they made a musical about his life.

My exgirlfriend finally got the joke at the musical -- she was constantly giving me shit about buying the Weekly World news every place we went before that. But I had to see where Batboy would be spotted next.

Follow-up Post:

I spoke too soon. It appears Bat Boy has already learned the Defender won't be coming back.

ROFLMAO

[Jimbo]

Batti Boys aka Ali G?

[Ragland]

Matt,

I heard that show, in the theater at Canal Place, was really good. We were walking toward the elevator and I about died when I saw the poster outside.

Couldn't you hear the dialogue when that guy at World News meets people for the first time.

"Oh, your a writer, how interesting. Maybe I've read some of your work."

"Well..."

[Matt Taylor]

Yup, that's where I saw it. I about died when I found out about it and had to go see it.

For anyone wondering what the hell we're talking about, The Weekly World News, a tabloid that makes the Inquirer look like the New York Times, ran a story that continued for months about a half boy, half bat that the authorities were trying to hunt down. They never could catch up to him, and he was spotted all over the country doing hilarious stuff. They always had pictures of him, but for some reason they couldn't get him. When they finally did catch him, the military sent him to the Middle East to help out and they got a great shot of him biting Osama Bin Laden on the neck from behind.

It might sound totally gay, but trust me, if you read it, you'd think it was hysterical. The thing took on a life of its own and got really popular. It was so ridiculous.

I'd be proud as hell if I were the writer of that. Whoever was behind it had a great sense of humor, and the situations they put Batboy in were brilliant.

I wish I had saved all those stories, but I have enough clutter with random rover parts -- I don't need a stockpile of weekly world news to keep track of.

Follow-up Post:

Here's an example, for anyone interested. Apparently, this happened after Batboy came back from the Middle East and escaped military custody.


BAT BOY STEALS CAR -- AND GOES ON THREE STATE JOY RIDE!
MISSING HALF-BAT, HALF-HUMAN STRIKES AGAIN!
DETROIT -- Bat Boy, the world's favorite winged freak, went on an incredible, death-defying joyride through Michigan, Indiana and Ohio after carjacking a brand new Mini Cooper -- and is still on the lam somewhere in America!

The brazen theft took place in the crowded parking lot of a Mini dealership. Eyewitnesses report that the Mini Cooper's owner had just accepted the keys to the vehicle when Bat Boy jumped out from behind some bushes, snatched the keys and sped away.

"The whole thing happened in a matter of seconds," says the car's horrified owner, who asked not to be identified. "The dealer had just handed me the keys when this monstrous creature appeared out of nowhere and tore off like a bat out of hell."

Police suspect that Bat Boy had been casing the dealership for hours, waiting for just the right moment to strike. Two employees gave chase, but Bat Boy quickly lost them in traffic.

Police say they are looking for a red Mini Cooper, last seen around Akron. A police spokesman says, "That little speed demon was heading East on Interstate 80. We urge all motorists to be on the lookout for this car, and to notify authorities if they see a Mini Cooper driven by a bat-like creature."

There were numerous sightings of Bat Boy following the theft, but police have been unable to locate him and he remains at large as of this writing.

"We know where Bat Boy has been during his little adventure -- we just don't know where he is now," notes FBI Special Agent Jack Trasker.

"We've been tracking his movements via reports of gas station drive-offs -- apparently Bat Boy is stealing gas when the tank runs low and drives away before police can respond."

Bat Boy learned how to drive while working with the U.S. military combating terrorism in Afghanistan.

Secret military files leaked to Weekly World News report that he stole at least two Jeeps and a tank during his stint there.

Since returning to the United States, Bat Boy's behavior has become increasingly erratic.

Three months ago he escaped from government custody and became a fugitive.

Police reports collected from stunned onlookers put Bat Boy in at least three different states. Sitings include:

* The Detroit Zoo, where he was believed to be looking for a quick snack.
* Drive-through of an Indiana donut shop. Several police officers taking a break in the shop gave chase, but Bat Boy managed to lose them in traffic.
* Interstate chase in Ohio. With cops in hot pursuit, Bat Boy whizzed down the Interstate at speeds in excess of 100 miles an hour.


Authorities are desperate to recapture Bat Boy, and have asked the nation's driving public to immediately report anything unusual. FBI and police scoured the tri-state area via car and helicopter, but they're no closer to capturing Bat Boy than they were three months ago.

"Hell, he could be a thousand miles from here by now," notes Agent Trasker, who has been on Bat Boy's tail since he escaped government custody.

"For someone so weird, he manages to hide himself pretty easily. With winter just around the corner, he'll probably head south.

"We already have task forces assembled in Georgia, North Carolina and Florida so when he shows up, we'll be ready."

In the meantime, the owner of the stolen Mini Cooper says he probably won't press charges should Bat Boy finally be captured.

"I hope Bat Boy learns his lesson and turns himself in," the man says. "I just want my Mini Cooper back."

Check out the witnesses photo's in the current (January 2003 Special) "Newsstand Issue" on sale now!

[shawnpalmer]

http://www.roverparts.com/Vehicle_Reviews_LR_Defender_2007.html

Kinda makes you sick , doesn't it?

[Buckon37s]

........again

[Mike Hippert]

REPOST! This is VERY old news and it has been cover way too much.

And Dave's gif is a very accurate display of what we all do when we see this. I think it should come up every time someone posts about 08 new Defenders in the US. And to be honest I am pretty sure that info is now inaccurate.

[flippedrover]

David I love that!!

[JimC]

Can someone with status and influence write AB and ask them to take that crap off the website so it stops being "discovered"?

[DJ Menasco]

........again


BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! That was pretty funny David!

[flippedrover]

Idea. How about a sticky with a huge !STOP POSTING ABOUT THE 2008 DEFENDER!!!!

[read]

Mike, I think it's time for a READ ME FIRST sticky.

[shawnpalmer]

Sorry about the post. I didn't know it was such old news. Next time I will search before posting. However, it is in the October 2005 Ed. of Land Rover World magazine with the same picture and it does say that they are, ..."finalising designs for the 2008 Defender." This led me to believe that this is what it is going to look like. Again, very sorry for not searching first.

[norros]

Well, this ISN'T old news ... Got this out of one of my LR Mags... OCTOBER 2005 Issue, pic from Land Rover.

:cry Hideous... Isn't it ?


N

[shawnpalmer]

That's exactly where I saw the article too. But watch out, nobody wants to discuss it around here. It's not an attractive vehicle at all. I wonder if it going to be made of aluminum still.

[Mike Hippert]

:angry What is that:question :cuss :pissed :rifle

Maybe they'll keep making the current modle for all of us nonyuppies.

[ronward]

I sure hope AB offers a chromed bike rack to go along with the '08 Defender.

[norros]

Mike,

'What is that' is right... If they go this route, it will definitely be the end of the Defender, the end of a truly magnificent era.

OH well, mine's not going anywhere. :)

It's funny, that's the only vehicle if I ever see it on the road, I'm going to pull up to them and say 'What in God's name were you thinking ?' ... LOL. I know EE will buy one... ;)

Muddy,

Yeah, they just get peeved when you don't use the search tool and take up server space. Oh well, don't worry about it at least you're a true enthusiast.... and that's what counts in my book.

Cheers,

Nicholas

[Trigger]

Oh look. They put round headlights back on the Disco. :rolleyes

Not one person could name what that was supposed to be when I showed them the pics. I got a lot of 'generic SUV' responses.

[PT94D90]

That's f'n ugly! :guns

[m.michaels]

Won't we have to wait until 2033 to legally import the 2008 Defender? See there really is a silver lining . . .

[Glenn_Guinto]

I kinda dig it if they didn't call it "The New Defender". Maybe if they called it an LR4 or something as long as they don't put the Defender name to shame. It will be a good alternative to the Yukon/Tahoe crowd and I bet would make some pretty decent profit for LR - hopefully enough to still produce a kick-ass, no-frills TRUCK like our Defenders.

I think it will be a cool people mover and dirt road safari every once in awhile. Just don't attempt to make it "The New Defender".

[Ragland]

LR will likely cede the commercial market soon. There really isn't much share left in agricultural, NGO, and military market vehicles. They might offer some stripper that the UN will drive more or less like we see highway department Suburbans. At this point, I don't think LR is generating the revenue necessary to justify a separate platform with a ladder frame and live axle arrangment.

The commercial market is the key. Once that goes, the vehicles become lifestyle props. Jeep was never the same once the M38A1 went out of production. Out went the PTO and in came the Ken Doll Beach Edition. It will be rather disappointing if LR chooses this route with the new Defender.

[whistler110]

If that is the direction that LR is heading then lets hope they do what they've done in the past and keep a "Defender Classic" in the line.

[sbfall96]

Curious... Do you think the return of the Defender model w/ the new 2008 USA sold Defenders will increase or decrease the market value of the 84-97 NAS Defenders?


http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR_Defender_2007.cfm

[oldscratchggf]

Oh god. Here we go again

[tkavan01]

Curious... Do you think the return of the Defender model w/ the new 2008 USA sold Defenders will increase or decrease the market value of the 84-97 NAS Defenders?


http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR_Defender_2007.cfm

those don't look quite as nice as the previous model, i don't think it will have too much of an affect

[Hans]

A few things will have to happen first.

1. The new ones will actually have to get built.
2. They would need to be an improvement on the current Defender.
3. They would have to be around a few years to the point they are less than the US Value of a Defender.

If they end up being kick-ass trucks that are a big improvement on the current version, it could reduce value a bit. If they are utter crap, then we may actually see an uptick in the value as the Brits suddenly loose their source of new vehicles and start holding on to them longer.

Personally, I don't see much of a change as the value of the NAS Defenders is based on more than just the lack of new production vehicles. There is a lot of history, ability and just plain coolness to them. Then throw the absurdly low number of US version trucks into the equation, and I honestly don't see the value going down long term. Maybe a slight hiccup when (IF) new ones come to the US, but prices will most likely keep going up.

-Hans

[Eric Siepmann]

And how is this a technical question?

[Davis]

First, this should be moved to Chit Chat.

Second, I would advise you to take a look at the Toyota Landcruiser and see if an 1984 good condition FJ40 has increased or decreased in value with all the "new" models of Land Cruisers over the years.

[JimC]

I wish AB would take that crap off of their worthless f'n website.

Thats how I really feel.

[Hans]

Atlantic British isn't worthless...... sometimes you can reference part numbers off their website to buy from other places that aren't ripping you off.

-Hans

[JimC]

I spoke too soon.

But I laugh my ass off when I read "Staking a claim for customization" in the Defender section. I wish they'd spend less time sitting around thinking of "marketing language" and more time doing something else like figuring out how to not charge 500 dollars for 50 bucks worth of stainless hardware.

[Mike Hippert]

Man, what is it with this subject! It's like a Fruit cake, it never goes away! I bet in 2010 we still get this question! LOL

Oh and I once bought a break line clamp from AB while I was at MAR, but I needed something to clamp off the rear breakline to get home as the Visegrips were holding something else on the 90 at the time :P

[kellymoe]

Looks like it might happen by 2008. I just googled "defender L317" and most current info says it will be produced off the LR3 chasis. It is code named L317. It sounds like it will not satisfy us defender owners who apreciate the Defender for it's simplicity and riggedness. I know the new one will never be what we hoped but I at least hope they stick to the utilitarian styling cues that set it apart from everything else. I hope it does well for LR and does not go the way of the Freelander.

[oldscratchggf]

Looks like it might happen by 2008. I just googled "defender L317" and most current info says it will be produced off the LR3 chasis. It is code named L317. It sounds like it will not satisfy us defender owners who apreciate the Defender for it's simplicity and riggedness. I know the new one will never be what we hoped but I at least hope they stick to the utilitarian styling cues that set it apart from everything else. I hope it does well for LR and does not go the way of the Freelander.


Erm, so I searched "Defender L317", and cannot for the life of me find a reputable/ even slightly respectable looking website that talks about it, or that even offers any info other than the fact that it is based on an LR3 platform..... So, i`ll believe it when i see it on the road

[kellymoe]

I never said anything about reputable or even respectable :) I was just passing on some info I found. It is the first time I have seen the "new" Defender given a code name which amounts to nothing. I dont know why people get so worked up about it, and I mean worked up about it coming or not coming. It seems folks get downright upset at the prospect of the Defender showing up or not showing up. Everyone has a friend of a friend who knows someone who works as a janitor at LR who says there is or is not a new Defender coming :rolleyes There is certainly no harm in talking about it. Lets all breath through or noses and count to 10 and then come out fighting :tounge

[woldd90]

Let's just pretend... In some amount of time it does show up on our shores...then what? Is it going to be a competition over who has the better, more respectable defender? Will it be like the jeeps, with the round headlighters against the more modern square headlighters? Will some of us trade our classic defenders in on the new one? In my book, that is not likely.

We all know that no matter what the new Defender looks like, it will be more like an LR3, computerized and managed, being more of a mall truck than an advernture truck. So, who cares?

LR would be stupid not to bring it back...especially seeing the rise in the off road movement. Toyota is bring in a new version of the FJ40... Ford is bringing back the new and improved Bronco, and even Jeep is equiping their trucks better.

It will not be the same... It may hurt our value slightly, but not many of us are willing to part with the truck. We may run into a few punks that will try and talk smack, 'cause they have the new and improved 90, but we'll know the reality.

Just like the LR3, some love it and some hate it. Who cares.

[kellymoe]

Let's just pretend... In some amount of time it does show up on our shores...then what? Is it going to be a competition over who has the better, more respectable defender? Will it be like the jeeps, with the round headlighters against the more modern square headlighters? Will some of us trade our classic defenders in on the new one? In my book, that is not likely.

We all know that no matter what the new Defender looks like, it will be more like an LR3, computerized and managed, being more of a mall truck than an advernture truck. So, who cares?

LR would be stupid not to bring it back...especially seeing the rise in the off road movement. Toyota is bring in a new version of the FJ40... Ford is bringing back the new and improved Bronco, and even Jeep is equiping their trucks better.

It will not be the same... It may hurt our value slightly, but not many of us are willing to part with the truck. We may run into a few punks that will try and talk smack, 'cause they have the new and improved 90, but we'll know the reality.

Just like the LR3, some love it and some hate it. Who cares.


Amen, brother :)

[Davis]

If they did bring it back, and I liked its style, I would consider getting one. I would get it for my daily driver (which currently is a 2000 DiscoII w/130,000miles). But my off roader would still be the D90, as it is whenever I need a dose of "cool". That is right, a dose of "cool". Everyone that has one has got to know what I meanj (and if you don't, I am sorry. Maybe you should see a Dr.). You just don't get that in most new cars--you would in any of your favorite cars like a convertible jag (e-type?) or 50's vette, but "current" favorite cars are not necessarily cool cars--you think they are becasue they are new and you have buyers goggles on. But they get old, it gets a dent, you don't continue washing it a couple times a week... And when they get old, only a few of them stay cool. You start to look for your next new car... Not true with a D90, at least not for me...

[Westiia]

There will not be a "new" defender untill 2010 at least in the Uk we get a faclift and new engine end of this year early next year. a 2.8 ford 4 cyl deisel 6 speed box and front facing rear seats and a slightly redesined bonet for pedestrian safty. This is all due to updated euro regulations

[Hans]

Hmmmm..... updated ford manufactured diesel and new tranny? Well, that definitely has potential to be good news for the US crowd if it's more available at a cheaper price than the current ones., any more info on the engine/tranny set?

-Hans

[D110XD]

My Information is, that this new engine will be a 2.4liter 4cylinder Ford Duratorq Common Rail Diesel Engine. It produces 137 hp and 375 Nm (277lbft?) of torque...:grin

[Hans]

But unless they boosted it up a bit for the Defender, the 2.4 Duratorq I'm coming up with the same numbers for the common-rail as well.

I'd also like to see the TD6 which has its own respectable numbers. 201hp and 325lb/ft of torque.

Either one would be great in a future US Defender

[D110XD]

Yes, this Disco 3 engine ist really great. But we'll first see it in this T5 Platform Defender in 2010...

I think, there will be a last classic Defender model available in North America, before this T5 thing shows up.

The Rest Of The World Spec. Defenders (Africa,...) with the classic 300tdi engine will be available in Germany until end of the year. A new Catalysator (?) is available, which brings this engine to EURO3 Standard!!!!

[xmod]

wouldn't it be funny if they call the new model the "D90"?? (when and if it gets produced)

however it turns out i'm sure it will be a nice grocery getter.

[scoloco]

Looks like it might happen by 2008. I just googled "defender L317" and most current info says it will be produced off the LR3 chasis. It is code named L317. It sounds like it will not satisfy us defender owners who apreciate the Defender for it's simplicity and riggedness. I know the new one will never be what we hoped but I at least hope they stick to the utilitarian styling cues that set it apart from everything else. I hope it does well for LR and does not go the way of the Freelander.
Bring out the new truck. Just GIVE IT A NEW NAME!
Its not going to be a defender, so dont bother trying to make it a defender.

[jvelador]

I agree that it won't be a true Defender, but to name it something stupid like an LR4 or LR7 makes about as much sense as George Foreman naming his SONS George Foreman Jr. and George Foreman III, IV, etc.

javier

[Ragland]

Main Entry: guardian
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: protector
Synonyms: alarm clock, angel, attendant, babysitter, bird dog, Cerberus, champion, conservator, cop, curator, custodian, defender, escort, guard, keeper, nurse, overseer, paladin, patrol, preserver, safeguard, sentinel, shepherd, sitter, sponsor, superintendent, supervisor, trustee, vigilante, warden, watchdog
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.


I did a quick look online using Roget's Thesaurus to help Land Rover a new name for the Defender replacement. Using "Defender" in terms of "Guardian" (and not, say, as a legal advocate), here are the various synonyms.

My favorite: "Custodian". The Land Rover Custodian. Let's be real, right. It will certainly be softer, all to better cosset its occupants. With Selec-Trac, Terrain, or whatever the hell that dial is called, the Custodian will ensure all occupants navigate unfamiliar terrain that can be scary, but seems so great in the brochure.

Defender is so Land Rover of yesterday. Can't you just hear those terrible radio ads with the fake British accent roll off "Custodian, the care-taker for your once a year weekend excursion".

[scoloco]

My favorite: "Custodian". The Land Rover Custodian. Let's be real, right. It will certainly be softer, all to better cosset its occupants. With Selec-Trac, Terrain, or whatever the hell that dial is called, the Custodian will ensure all occupants navigate unfamiliar terrain that can be scary, but seems so great in the brochure.

I like it!

[JBurt]

This is why Land Rover should let the D-90 source do its marketing.

I'm envisioning a TV ad (much like the new Japanese RR Sport ad) with the "Custodian" driving from the grocery store and hitting traffic. The soccer mom behind the wheel puts on some Land Rover driving/work gloves (they're optional equipment) and swerving around pot holes on the way home. She clips the last one and they cut to a shot of the eggs in a canvas grocery bag (always thinking of the environment) not moving at all, to show how the air suspension works. Then they say, "Custodian, keeping to the roots of Land Rover to protect you and your passengers in the jungle of your life." Then some dribble about how Land Rover partnered with Ford who partnered with Volvo who partnered with Jaguar who partnered with Mazda who partnered with Carol Shelby to make the best vehicle ever made blah blah blah...

[Hans]

Custodian? That's what we called the people who cleaned the hallways at my High School, not the image I'd like to picture. However, it may be appropriate for the new vehicle.

I'm not too worried though, I'm quite happy with the one I've got already.

-Hans

[Ragland]

Custodian? That's what we called the people who cleaned the hallways at my High School, not the image I'd like to picture. However, it may be appropriate for the new vehicle.

I'm not too worried though, I'm quite happy with the one I've got already.

-Hans


You may be going at it from the wrong perspective. Sure some janitors are known as custodians. However, a custodian is also one who looks after, or cares for, someone or something that needs oversight. Nothing severe mind you, certainly not "guarding" which might imply combative, perilous life or death scenarios. Rather, the custodian ensures proper guidance and form for those who will likely go astray otherwise unattended. Think garden shears for the roses as opposed to a chainsaw for the bush. A little nip, a little tuck and all is well again.

A Land Rover Custodian would help look after those foolhardy types daring enough to pull a "Wild Kingdom" in the neighboring development. All mechanics would be sufficiently complex as to discourage any modifications; just leave such concerns to the good engineers at Land Rover. The Custodian will see to it. Big tires? Come now, you really shouldn't bother with such things. Before long you might end up with grease under the nails, tobacco stained teeth, and poor diction.

[jordan0527]

Land Rover announced today that the Defender would continue production in its current form until at least 2010, with significant upgrades in safety for the 2007 model, possibly allowing for its return to the US. Check it out...from reputable Channel 4 in the UK:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=14547 (http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=14547)

This could get interesting...

[ECR]

A buddy of mine was recently inside the factory and saw the 2007 Defender. I posted a blog about it on our web site (that some conscrewed as a trick to get people to keep their current Defenders (not)). We would get plenty of work fixing old ones or tricking out new ones so what would be the motivation?? We were going just as strong in 1996 when Defenders where at the dealerships as we are in 2006 when they are not. People baffled me.
Anyway, I digress.
The 2007 Defener has been described in detail to me. It is not very different. From what I can gather it could possibly have a drivers air bag (SRS) sorted out as the dash is now much more Disco II like. The passenger side still looks to have no provisions for an air bag. ABS is already available on Defenders so some hurdles for US consumption have been crossed. The bugger is the motor.
There are no assembly lines or production plans for a gasoline engine for the Defender line. The entire line is being switched from Td5/ Tdi to a diesel from the Ford Transit van and that engine does not currently meet USA regs.
The LR3 is scheduled to come to the USA with a Puegot diesel, supposedly. Test mule LR3s have been spotted in USA trim in South America in testing. This is being done becuase the Rover and Ford diesels won't meet tests and output needs of US buyers. The Puegot diesel has not been fitted to the Defender.
So from what I know (not that I know it all) the Defender interior and some other minor aspects are being made ready to go upscale and get into new markets, but not enough changes have been made to reach US shores. In 2010-2015 sources say everything will be changed and a uni-body, IFS Defender will make it to the USA.
The biggest reason I do not believe a USA Defender will come to the USA in the next few years is the engine. Rover has nothing set up for a gas engine in a Defender, and US customers are not ready for diesel cars (I wish they were, but unlike the folks here on this board, the typical US buying public will not yet embrace diesel and the US government keeps making it harder and harder to sell diesels). In, ME, VT, MA etc Land Rover dealers would not be allowed to sell a new diesel LR3 or Defender. Yes the laws are that stupid.
I hope they come, but from what I have been told about from inside the factory about the 2007 model... I don't think so, not yet.

[noee]

I thought the Ford/Peugot diesel were the same, essentially a co-development project twinxt the two companies?

Moot really anyway as it seems you've hit the nail on the head: even with safety improvements and refinements, there is simply no motor that will get a ladder-frame, coil-sprung Defender to the states in the near-term.

[ECR]

There may be a Ford/ Pugeot connection. I never dug into it as it never really mattered to me perosnally. I don't want an LR3 and a diesel Defender didn't seem slated to come back so I didn't bother to resreach it.
If the Pugeot diesel in the diesel LR3 is the same as used in the Ford Transit van then they might be sharing the same engine and that would bring it one step closer to the USA.

[Ragland]

The Defender is a "halo" vehicle. That is, a car which provides excellent brand imaging and drives consumers to the showroom. More than a few people wandered into a LR dealer pining for a Defender but driving away in a Disco. After all, both went on the Camel trophy runs, right? Your local dealer still has some old videos tucked away. Now that LR has moved farther up and shifted more towards comfort, a new sort of halo will be needed. LR will need to reaffirm its offroad status.

I give the modified Defender a pretty good shot at coming to the US. An engine can be sourced once quantities are set. Recall, the NAS Defender offered specs never seen elsewhere, including the engine. PAG also includes Jaguar, which gave the Range Rover an engine. Were I a betting man, I'd take a wager on this showing up.

[ECR]

Do you think Land Rover currently cares about "off road status" in the US market??

LR3
Range Rover
Range Rover Sport
Keep in mind all these vehicles look sort of the same (brand imaging I think they call it) so where does the Defender fit in?

I'm not seeing a trend where they are pointing towards a rugged "truck" that most drivers of LR3s and RR Sports would complain about the ride, the noise, the leaks. I could be wrong, but in the USA market today with the Range Rover Sport, the BMW X5, the Audi Q7 and all... I think the Defender is dead to LRNA.

I hope Im wrong, but I think LRNA will take a look at the $$ and say it ain't worth it.
I'll be the first with a deposit down if they bring in a new one, but I can't see it happening.

It would be like Toyota bringing back a slightly modified 1979 FJ40. They didn't. They made a retro look something-or-other that has a brand image with a "real" FJ40... but they didn't bring back the "real" FJ40.
Neither will LRNA bring back the "real" Defender.

Here is an example...
Many times we get RR customers that want a Defender. They own and drive LR3s and RRs. They come to the shop and take a Defender for a spin. A good number of these people all come away with the same thing. "Oh my god that is loud and it rides so rough." They don't buy and they never think about a Defender again.
Do you really think that Ford hasn't done market research on stuff like that?

Its cup holders, power everything and all that BS for the US market guys.
I'll bet big money the Defender as we know and love it will never grace LRNA showroom floors again.

Also keep in mind we all knew the Defender was coming to the USA market for years in advance. The 1993 NAS 110 was no secret, nor was the 1994 NAS D90. We knew they were on the way for at least 2 years before they reached these shores.
Why would LRNA be being so quiet now if they desperately need the "halo" vehicle so badly?

Just my opinion.

[Hans]

Honestly, I am starting to think that nobody really cares about the off-road market anymore. Just look at the Jeep 'Compass', which is starndard front wheel drive and OPTIONAL awd...... definitely focused for rainy weather mall shopping. They have been slowly slipping toward road-tuned vehicles for years, and the Wrangler is all they have left which interests anybody that wants an off-road truck.

-Hans

[Ragland]

Let me elaborate. I'm not suggesting LRNA is desperate for a halo vehicle. Sales are tops historically, and the division is profitable for Ford. But there is room in the line for something which looks like it belongs on a trail. Land Rover can't afford to be knocked off the perch regarding off road capability. This is the wink-wink bargain with all the new products. In essence, "Sure it does everything like a car but we all know LR is the best off-road." Customers tolerated a lot with LR products - reputation and branding kept them from disappearing during the bad quality years.

As time moves on, LR is becoming separated from the reputation and branding. A new product will need to reclaim the heritage. Less than 9,000 Defenders ever made it here in the 90's, yet these cars still loom large over the brand. A couple hundred thousand cars later, and customers continue to buy Land Rovers in part because of what the Defender contributed to the branding. What other make has such a model? Possibly the Nissan Skyline for the rice-burner set, but that's another conversation.

While I agree that most would hate actually owning the Defender, they buy into LR, with its higher pricing and lower quality because of the mystique. No Freelander will ever generate that kind of buzz, and the Defender is still on the LRNA website. Land Rover is on a roll right now, and they're going to push the brand further. Unlike Jag, this division is actually profitable. Another vehicle line may yet be introduced. Throw in another 9,000 Defenders, and they could move 100,000 units of a rebadged car-based crossover without diluting the branding.

The Defender is like grain alcohol in the boat drinks. You can whip up some awfully big batches with just a bit.

[Hans]

Thats the thing about the Defender, they can't just ramp up production as quickly as they can with other vehicles. The design of the vehicle doesn't cooperate too well with more modern production methods and it is slower and more labor intensive to produce because they really can't automate the production I remember a couple articles that stated they are making as many Defenders as they can, and can't keep up with worldwide demand as it is. So why put all the development money into making it sellable in the USA again, if they already sell them as fast as they can make them.

The US is just going to have to wait for the next major redesign of the truck when they 'promised' it would be done to meet both EU and US standards as well as be able of more automated production.
Personally, I am still hoping they are going to do a nicely designed cross-brand of the new Bronco and new Defender when the time comes. They are both strong heritage designs for Ford and LR, with rabid fan bases, similar markets, and look pretty much the same already.

-Hans

[Krna]

Its funny that this message just popped up on MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12819384/

maybe there is a chance.... (although i doubt it, and wont be getting rid of my 90 anytime soon)

[Abrooks]

I saw LR3 test mules on 15 north of Vegas last week in full disguise. I wonder if they were the diesels?

Granted, I also saw a daihatsu charade being towed by a trash truck on the same stretch of highway, so I suppose anything is possible. The trash truck was far cleaner than the daihatsu.

[Flagg]

I am not getting rid of my D-90 regardless.......BUT what will the prices of these Defenders be if they do come to the US. I once heard that there would be a rugged one "the farm-truck", and one that had total luxury options......there would be far less rugged ones sent to the US.

But here is my question - If these do come to our shores.......what is the price of a current Defender.......Will ours drop significantly in price.........??????

Or will they ship over too few, at too high a price to really effect our resale too much??

Flagg

[ECR]

In my opinion prices would change very little in the middle and lower end.
A good solid D90 for say 28K would still be a nice buy when compared to a lets say 2007 Defender 90 at 40,000. The lower end 90s would still be the same value as well. Prices could even go up a bit as new cars generate interest in older cars.
The market that would suffer is the high end. Why would you then spend 55,000. on a low miles 1997 D90 when for less you could buy a brand new one.
The market will remain strong as the numbers will always be low.

These prices are just for fun out of my head. I have no data on what a new Defender might cost, but I know what my new 1997 D90SW cost me and with inflation I don't see LRNA selling a 2007 Defender for less than 40-45K.

But you don't have to worry... it ain't coming.
:)

[kellymoe]

IMO I think any Defender brought in will be good for Land Rover. LR knows where they came from and they know they need a off road icon even if it means putting out a Defender based on the LR3 platform. I do regrest that straight axles are going to be a thing of the past but a stripped down version of the LR3 wont be that bad. Have you seen the RRS or LR3 on a tough trail yet? Head to head in a pure stock form the RRS or LR3 will climb and better than a stock Defender, I have seen it with mine own two eyes. As much as I would like to think that my Defender is the cats ass it just cant compete off road with the new Land Rovers. Does that mean that I am going to run right out and buy one? Heck No. Not with all the electric stuff to go bad in the middle of nowhere, I didnt say they were more reliable off road or that they would not incure more body damage but they climb circles around Defenders until the computer breaks or the sills fall off :grin

A Defender based on a stripped down version of the LR3 without the heated seats and navigation and all that BS would be a pretty good off roader and I am sure aftermarket suspension and bumpers and all that crap would be right around the corner.

I look forward to a all new Defender, I already have an old one and I don't need a carbon copy of that, it would be nice to drive in the rain without getting my feet wet for once :)

Oh, I have to disagree with ECR, I do think they are coming back.

[Ragland]

If Defenders return, guys like Coppley will take a hit. People looking for a "like-new" vehicle will simply get the real thing - new.

As for the comment regarding the secrecy and mixed messages, I believe a lot of it can be attributed to the shaky automotive industry and the turnover in LR management. Since the time of the original NAS models, LR has had three owners and countless management turnovers. Parent company Ford is in the financial straits. Longtime LR suppliers, the ones who make the Defender possible, have suffered equally. Throw in confusion with the MoD and changing regs. It really is a different environment than in the early '90s. An all new Defender has been postponed with almost every arriving management team. But with the changing Euro regs, something had to be done this time.

[jordan0527]

The G Wagon was up to $81,000 for the final model in 2005. You think LRNA would sell a NAS 110 for anything less than $60? Of course it'll need to have a redesigned dash, navigation, auto transmission, airbags, and power everything. To protect the LRNA "brand integrity" they wouldn't have it any other way.

And I highly doubt they would ever bring the 90. Not in today's SUV climate, and not after the two-door Freelander basically flopped. Better chance (slim one at that) of having the 110 wagon and 110 four-door pickup, a la H2 SUT.

[cobb]

http://www.lrlmag.com/magazine.php?id=2&sID=34

Looks like an article coming out in the June 06 edition of The Landrover Lifestyle Magazine regarding timetable for Defenders return. I believe it makes sense, redesign of jeep, toyota landcruiser, hummer sales, landrover sales. Why not? Websites like this, current high resale value, parts, and after market show that there is a demand with fan base.

[Doug]

Aged UK Defenders are going to be importable in the near future. Mike S. >>> You guys can have a field day, like the heydays of RoversNorth in the 70s, importing and restoring Brit Defenders for the NA affeccianado (spelling) market, no?

Doug W.

[Ragland]

http://www.lrlmag.com/magazine.php?id=2&sID=34

Looks like an article coming out in the June 06 edition of The Landrover Lifestyle Magazine regarding timetable for Defenders return. I believe it makes sense, redesign of jeep, toyota landcruiser, hummer sales, landrover sales. Why not? Websites like this, current high resale value, parts, and after market show that there is a demand with fan base.


I think this truck is coming back. But as much as I am excited about it, I do feel this whole experience is a bit too much like Tattoo screaming "The Plane, the plane!"

And we should prepare for some let down factor. The new one will more than likely have an automatic and the brochure will no longer make reference to hosing out the interior.

[Flagg]

I agree...........I Believe that Land Rover will think of the US market if they bring it back.

The Average US buyer does not care about the off-road capabilities, and just loves the tough image. They want a comfortable car that they can look cool when they drive to work. I think a lot of the D-90s from 1994-1997 that came over here ended up in places like LA and never left pavement.......Land Rover will think about this - even if they bring it over in small numbers.

That said, I am sure the new one will be very good off road.......maybe better than ours - as long as all the new electronics do not fail.

BUT, I believe the new one will be carpeted, comfortable, automatic, GPS option, better heat and air conditioned, heated seats, etc, etc. I think they will follow the direction of the new G-Wagons. The new G's are not anywhere near as stripped down as the old - but look at the US buyers who buy them - even at their high prices.

I also do not think that they will bring the soft top D-90s back.......unless they make soft tops available for the rest of the world.........

Flagg

[Matt Taylor]

I'm with ECR. It ain't coming back. All you guys who say it is are relying on Land Rover using common sense. Your common sense is right on; I just don't think theirs is.

The fact is that the U.S. offroad segment is way too small to change justify a change in production methods. All it takes is for one Ford exec. to question why they would spend money to make a NAS Defender when they can not spend it and sell mall crawlers anyway.

But then again, I know shit about this stuff. I just haven't seen any indication that the new Land Rover ownership values the heritage of the brand. They sure took the coolness factor out of Jags.

[Hans]

One thing though is that the UK Spec Defender is going to need some updating soon as EU laws change. And if LR has to do significant updating to the design, then it only makes sense for them to make the new configuration fit both EU and US laws.

I can't see them modifying the current trucks only to fit US laws, but I can see them incorporating both into the design if they have to do the updates anyways.

-Hans

[jordan0527]

Here's another angle to this situation--

Suppose Land Rover updates the D-90 enough to satisfy US safety and emissions standards, but LRNA just decides not to import it. Couldn't they be brought in legally in the grey market?

LR still manufactures LHD Defenders for some countries, so it seems to me that with certain mods it should be possible.

[ECR]

Here's another angle to this situation--

Suppose Land Rover updates the D-90 enough to satisfy US safety and emissions standards, but LRNA just decides not to import it. Couldn't they be brought in legally in the grey market?

LR still manufactures LHD Defenders for some countries, so it seems to me that with certain mods it should be possible.


Not unless LRNA bring it in first. The DOT certifications come through a costly processes of crashing cars, etc. Only LRNA has the $$ to do that. Any other importation (much like importing and Fedralizing a 1993 110 today through an RI) comes from the data set by LRNA doing it first.
If they don't, you can't. (unless you put up the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to get them certified).

[Ragland]

Not unless LRNA bring it in first. The DOT certifications come through a costly processes of crashing cars, etc. Only LRNA has the $$ to do that. Any other importation (much like importing and Fedralizing a 1993 110 today through an RI) comes from the data set by LRNA doing it first.
If they don't, you can't. (unless you put up the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to get them certified).

Sort of like the guy who formed a company to import the G-Wagen during the late 90's. You must crash test the vehicle, necessitating the destruction of some cars (and not just one or two, either). He must have cringed when MB announced plans to bring it over.

[ECR]

Sort of like the guy who formed a company to import the G-Wagen during the late 90's. You must crash test the vehicle, necessitating the destruction of some cars (and not just one or two, either). He must have cringed when MB announced plans to bring it over.

Exactly... Europa was to company in AZ.
I spoke with him at length way back when about how he did it, what it took, etc. as I wanted to Fedralize Defenders. In the end... WAY too much money and BS.
A guy from Hunting Ridge Motors in NY claimed he was going to certify Defender 110s years ago (crash them and all), but it never came to be.

[1000kva]

I have talked to a salesman/person at the local dealership. She told me that they won't know until next year what the return date is possible 2008 more likley 2011

[hoser]

Is the rumor of re-introducing the 07 or 08 Defender back to the USA true, still an unconfirmed rumor or completely false? I'm in the market for a new vehicle and will hold off a couple of more years if this is possibly true!
:confused

[oldscratchggf]

you`re going to be holding off for years and years to come... if not forever

[Flagg]

I think the Defender has been rumored to come back to the states every year since it left. I will believe it when I see it...........

Flagg

[JSBriggs]

And I heard Ferris Beuler needs a new kidney.

Save Ferris!




-Jeff

[hoser]

I saw an article in some recent auto magazine that prompted me to ask. It said that the 08 may be reintroduced. This is why I asked. NOT the Christmas message I was hoping for, but much appreciated nontheless!!

Merry Christmas everyone (but if Santa has a better answer, please post!).
:)

[snuffer]

Search the previous posts on the subject. Lots has been said about it. If they ever come back they will be psuedo Defenders.

[MattGuyver_007]

The link below gives alot of information regarding the 2007 release of the Defender back in America. If you're after the offroad capabilities and unique look of the D90's already here then this ''new" Defender NAS model is not for you.

http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR_Defender_2007.cfm

[oldscratchggf]

The link below gives alot of information regarding the 2007 release of the Defender back in America. If you're after the offroad capabilities and unique look of the D90's already here then this ''new" Defender NAS model is not for you.

http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR_Defender_2007.cfm


I think that article has been up there since the D90 was fazed out in America back in `97

[lynchee]

The link below gives alot of information regarding the 2007 release of the Defender back in America. If you're after the offroad capabilities and unique look of the D90's already here then this ''new" Defender NAS model is not for you.

http://www.roverparts.com/VehicleReviews/LR_Defender_2007.cfmThat thing looks like a Jeep anyway. I wouldn't trade my 94 for a new one, I like it the way it is......a truck.
Merry Christmas

[1000kva]

Yuck, the thing looks like one of the new Dodges.

[Buckon37s]

If it was coming back in 07 wouldn't it have been released about 3 months ago?

[KevinNY]

Is there some way to automatically delete topics that have "new defender" in the title?:rolleyes

[hoser]

The article said it's "planned" on being released in 2007 as a 2008 (which is a long way of saying it's an 08 model since most new vehicles are released in the months prior to the new year, correct?).

[woldd90]

There is no way that the Defender is ever coming back in its existing form... Land Rover will finally get smart 10-12 years in the future, after another company buys them and wants to pump up their marketing and sales... The Defender will become the LR1 and it will be a cross between the Freelander and a Dodge Nitro. All Hype and No function.

[oldscratchggf]

The article said it's "planned" on being released in 2007 as a 2008 (which is a long way of saying it's an 08 model since most new vehicles are released in the months prior to the new year, correct?).

Just give up. If you really want a NEW Defender, get your name in now, maybe you can save up enough by the time ECR gets around to you

[tron]

I don't think that new style (from the Atlantic British site) would come about any time soon...the current model looks pretty much the same as the models in the US:

http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Vehicles/Defender/Defender_overview.htm

My guess is that Ford will probably bring back the bronco and put the same engine that is in the current 90 in the bronco. Depending on how sales of the Bronco do, I could see this as a test platform for bringing the 90 back to the US. However, this is all speculation I have formulated. I imagine that Land Rover has plenty of orders for the defender in the public and private sectors of countries where it meets the required standards and bringing it back to the US is not really a top priority. I, like the rest of you would be first in line if they came back but then again, it is just a car...it too will one day just be dust.

[rvrchuck]

Ford Bronco concept:

http://www.wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/automotive/Ford%20Bronco%20Concept%202004%201%20-%201024x768.jpg

[Flagg]

That actually looks pretty cool..............not that I am trading my D90!

[hoser]

Wish I had a D90 to trade!

[jimngo]

I'm impressed with that Bronco redesign but considering Ford's current financial state I don't see a big chance of it coming to market unless the FJ Cruiser and the H3 do really well. Still, Ford is missing a 'boutique' 4WD in their lineup.

[snosrfr]

i was chatting w/ a tech at flatirons rover last night and he said the defender is returning to the states in '08.

anyone have any info on this?

[gtg067i]

Doubtful due to crash regulations from what I understand...but I did see this.... gives some hope for another 6 years

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Land-Rover-Defender/225037/

[Stmpede]

I just placed orders at work for '08 models and none were Defenders. Last I heard it might come back in '10 but I haven't heard anything about an '08 model...I highly doubt that they have done enough design and testing of a new model, without anyone knowing, for it to be here in '08.

[steve mez]

ok this is what i heard last week and over the summer from two sources, one was the head land rover guy sales and director from Ireland and England, and the other was from a inside source from road and track, he old and part time now. but they both said that due to cost, emissions, and the DOT, the defender will most likely not make it to the USA ever again. but a range rover 2 door will be coming they say in 3 years. this is what land rover is got going for now...the defender they say does will for them and they dont want to try and go through all the issues to get the car in to the states, land rover is trying to be smart and careful with their future witch sucks... but hopefully the 2 door range rover will be cool but who know... illl keep talking to my guys and sources.
steve

[snosrfr]

Doubtful due to crash regulations from what I understand...but I did see this.... gives some hope for another 6 years

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Land-Rover-Defender/225037/


2013!!! by then everyone will be driving IT's. but i guess the good news for D90 owners is that their D's will be worth $80k...

[chrisvonc]

No chance of the current Defenders being here in '08. The current design, costs to make them NAS compliant and a whole slew of other stuff just wont be making it a reality for us. The closest chance we have is the redesign in 2010 of whatever they turn the next generation into, but it wont be a Defender we have now.

[Stmpede]

Yeah. I for one hope they don't bring it back. If they redesign it to make it US compliant it won't be the same, it'll just be a cheaper (maybe) LR3. Plus, I don't think it will make economic sense b/c it probably won't appeal to any of us in it's new form and if it did, they couldn't sell enough to be worth the tooling and design. If the new one was anything like this one I don't think the market will be there. Part of why people like this one so much is that they are rare. If you could just go into the dealer and order one in the color you want they would loose a lot of their appeal. Lastly...I like the way the market is trending on our trucks currently! :)

[kiefffff]

Why would you want a LR5 anyway.... keep em out of here.

[snuffer]

i was chatting w/ a tech at flatirons rover last night and he said the defender is returning to the states in '08.

anyone have any info on this?

Chatting? :cool:


I just put in an order for a new '08 Pink Panther with a 50 cal., smoke tubes, and run flat tires. The 50 makes it a little bit of a hassle unless you order a semi auto. But even the semi is out of the question in California.

[snosrfr]

Chatting? :cool:


I just put in an order for a new '08 Pink Panther with a 50 cal., smoke tubes, and run flat tires. The 50 makes it a little bit of a hassle unless you order a semi auto. But even the semi is out of the question in California.


perfectly legal if you have it covered... and if they give you any grief just tell them, it's for SPARTAAAAA!!!

[Seanh]

Isn't 08 the magic year? The 90/110( not Defender) was born in 83 and with the 25 year rule the ability to import a nice 90/110 with a 200 or 300TDI is just around the corner. F&^% a new Defender, we don't need it.

[TwisteD90]

LR better bring something worth a damn or I'll be driving a 4 door Rubicon soon.

Yo Randy, I got your membership app. and I dig the comment you put in there, it was funny.

[jordan0527]

And there it is, ladies and gentlemen! Another "NAS Defender Returning" thread. I was wondering when I would see one of these again. Even a little surprised that the ECR guys haven't weighed in already. I guess they gave up on this one-- it's the thread that never dies!

[ECR]

Even a little surprised that the ECR guys haven't weighed in already. I guess they gave up on this one-- it's the thread that never dies!

Let'm day dream if they want...
:) :) :) :)

[Rod Hayward]

i was chatting w/ a tech at flatirons rover last night and he said the defender is returning to the states in '08.

anyone have any info on this?
Heck, Chuck, I have a brand spankin' new '08 NAS defender sitting in my driveway right now. You gotta love that new car smell.

(keep it under your hat though, a lot of guys don't know that they are already here!)

Follow-up Post:

I went with the Zambezi silver ST. They're doing a SW too, but I'm a rag top man. I like how they come stock with lockers front and rear, too. Good idea. And the new turbo diesel ROCKS!! Who would think you could have that much power and still get 35 mpg? I'm having so many panties thrown at me now I leave the wipers on all the time.

Follow-up Post:

I was going to go with the new D-100 LE (it comes on portals) but $35,000? Do they think I'm nuts?!?!

[snuffer]

Isn't 08 the magic year? The 90/110( not Defender) was born in 83 and with the 25 year rule the ability to import a nice 90/110 with a 200 or 300TDI is just around the corner. F&^% a new Defender, we don't need it.


Seems like all of the old and even some of the newer Defenders you see in the Brithish LR magazines are ate up with rust.


Yousef, shame on you for saying Ru***on. Besides they don't even make it in Coniston Green. ;)

[paulb]

Whoa there trigger, the defender IS BACK! - I just ordered the Conneticut Green D100. The guy sent me a email and of course I jumped at it. It will be delivered in about 4 months and has a whole bunch of extras all housed arround the 6 liter TDI; including MP3 playa, chrome winch, gold digga wench, spinnas (removable for dirt), French leather seating (which I upgraded to 100% US made leatherette), and hydrolic side step downs. If you want one, just email Benjiman at www.newcars.nigeria.com/deals. Send him a bank draft and your SS #. At $55k I am getting a new truck that will be just as good as any NAS 110 on the road today! HAHA.

[portocar]

So many rumors and speculations...At one point it seemed like a high probability, now Ford is planning on selling Land Rover. This deal could change everything.

Does anyone here, know if the D-90 will be returning to America?

If so, where can I get more information?

[Grover]

I was at the the LR dealership yesterday and they stated that it "may" return, but "if" it does, it will be totally different than the Defender that we all know and love.


Cheers...

[97Ariesblu]

good if it does come back to the u.s. i would want it to be different so i wouldnt have to get a brand new one :)
if they sent em over as they are now in the UK that would be sick but other than that forget about it!

[dmarchand]

Don't waste your time. If it is to come in '08, we would be seeing spy photos and hearing preliminary press leaks about it.

[DJ Menasco]

Does anyone here, know if the D-90 will be returning to America?

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw a 2008 Defender at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.


If so, where can I get more information?

Try dialing 411. They should know.

[jordan0527]

Oh no, he's back! It's the thread that never dies!

[Trigger]

The forum needs some sort of posting filter. If you have less than 50 posts you can't use the words 'Defender' 'return' or 'US' in a thread title.

[hamiamham]

spoke to my friend at PAG; zero chance between now and 2012. slim after that. if and when ford was to sell PAG then that might change

[Hans]

Considering the major underhood and interior revamp they put into it for the UK market, none of which addresses the import issues bringing it to the USA, I'd also say it's at least 4-5 years out.

Bringing it to the US would require a major frame and body update to meet the new side impact, rollover and other impact standards. Lets not forget the new US diesel regulations, airbag differences from the EU, tire monitoring requirements and a few other things.

When LR talks about a new defender chassis and body, then we can start speculating.

[CaptMidnite]

Don't forget..Congress is considering mandatory stability control in a few years. BTW how would the proposed increased fuel economy regulations affect an indepedent Land Rover?

[Ragland]

I tell you folks, the signs are so obvious, you'd think Ford would have to put out a press release.


If you play backwards the second song on Paul McCartney's new cd, it distinctly says "Heather Mills really was a prostitute and the Land Rover Defender returns to the US this Fall"

Nostradamus writes, "After absence and anxiety befalls those of the new land, a defender will return."

Bat Boy was spotted at Eastnor Castle.

[Flagg]

I think they will bring the D-90 and D-110 in to the US next time they do a frame and body update. 4-5 years. Who ever owns Land Rover would be foolish not to use that tactic to bring people into their dealerships.

Seems to me like even if it does come back, most of us like our old ones :) The new one will not be the same car..........

Besides - what do you think the price would be? I think most of us will keep tinkering with our 20-25k Defenders..........rather then laying out 45k for a D-90, or 60k for a D-110. I bet they will really charge a lot for these models............because of their limited numbers and appeal.

Flagg

[waveridin1959]

Does it matter if they did bring it back? You think everyone still driving old Toyota FJ's is ready to give it up for a FJ Cruiser?

[97Ariesblu]

true about the cruiser but I wonder if they would just keep the same model like the d-90 and 110's in the UK and send those.. those are sick .. has anyone ever purchased one of those and spec-ed it out to fit U.S. standards and regs and brought it over ?? is that possible..prolly if you have the big $$$ ..
i like the way those new ones over there look witht the hood scoop on the hood .. and the silver color with tinted out windows looks awesome on the LR UK site

havnt i seen this thread before?? :) do a search before you post new thread

[Burke]

I was holding out hope for years that an updated and more civilized Defender would reach our shores. Do not get me wrong, I would never get rid of the '94, but it cannot keep up with my husbandly and fatherly duties now thirteen years after I bought it (it was the perfect college cruiser back then though) ;). I love driving a topless rugged "truck" though. That is why I finally jumped party lines and bought a '07 Wrangler four door. I drive around with my air bags, satalite radio, A/C, and child seat in the back imagining I am in the 90. Then on weekends, I break out the real thing and sneer at the guys in Jeeps :)

[GYM]

.. those are sick ..
For the benefit of those of us born before the Carter Administration..."sick" is a good thing, right?

[themaxx]

That is why I finally jumped party lines and bought a '07 Wrangler four door. I drive around with my air bags, satalite radio, A/C, and child seat in the back imagining I am in the 90. Then on weekends, I break out the real thing and sneer at the guys in Jeeps :) That's awesome!

For the benefit of those of us born before the Carter Administration..."sick" is a good thing, right? Urbandictionary.com

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sick

[JFD]

:hmm 2010, according to LR UK magazines :sneaky

[97Ariesblu]

sorry im reverting back to my teenage years by throwing around the word "sick" im just glad i didnt say dope .. haha

[tkavan01]

Does it matter if they did bring it back? You think everyone still driving old Toyota FJ's is ready to give it up for a FJ Cruiser?i'd trade my fj40 for a new fj, if the person on the other end of the trade paid me 30k...

[Fenderbender]

Like the dinosaurs, which are represented today by birds, the land-conquering vehicle like the Defender will be replaced by some mountain-bike frame mini powered by Mitsubishi and designed by Smart Car. No insults intended here, just an observation on the effect of dwindling resources and disappearing open country to drive in.

[huck1974]

Like the dinosaurs, which are represented today by birds, the land-conquering vehicle like the Defender will be replaced by some mountain-bike frame mini powered by Mitsubishi and designed by Smart Car. No insults intended here, just an observation on the effect of dwindling resources and disappearing open country to drive in.I feel dumb because I am actually replying to ask why you brought back crap with more crap. Therefore, I laid crap upon crap upon crap.

[Ragland]

Unlike the dinosaurs, threads referencing the return of the Defender will never die out.

[97Ariesblu]

stop this nonsense

[Ragland]

stop this nonsense


If the world succumbs to nuclear annihilation, there will only be roaches and an odd thread or two about when the Defender might return.

[proulx70]

OK folks, get ready! I was poking around on the Google Patent Search (working on some stuff for our favorite vehicle) and I found something VERY interesting.

There is a patent owned by Ford and an engineer in Great Britain for a rear roll cage with side curtain airbags built into it! It references that it's for off road vehicles such as a "those manufactured by Land Rover(TM)". Land Rover is the only brand specifically mentioned.

Check it out.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=PgWAAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=roll+cage+land+rover#PPA5,M1

Looks like it's coming back. Better not have and I-6 like I've heard rumored! But I've heard that Tata Motors is going to be much more hands-off than Ford.

P~

[JimC]

Oh perfect, they've engineered a way for a roll cage to cost even more than a NAS one!

[minorthreat]

Cool find, but I don't really care if the Defender comes back or not. I already have one. And I doubt I'll feel the love for the next incarnation. Time will tell.

[Eric Siepmann]

Still have to deal with the front airbags and getting everything approved by the Feds.

I don't think we'll see any in the near future, if not for the economy alone.

[LRNAD90]

OK folks, get ready! I was poking around on the Google Patent Search (working on some stuff for our favorite vehicle) and I found something VERY interesting.

There is a patent owned by Ford and an engineer in Great Britain for a rear roll cage with side curtain airbags built into it! It references that it's for off road vehicles such as a "those manufactured by Land Rover(TM)". Land Rover is the only brand specifically mentioned.

Check it out.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=PgWAAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=roll+cage+land+rover#PPA5,M1

Looks like it's coming back. Better not have and I-6 like I've heard rumored! But I've heard that Tata Motors is going to be much more hands-off than Ford.

P~

Cool Find, thanks for sharing! Though, like the others, I'm a bit concerned that if a 'Defender' ever reaches these shores again, it will bare little resemblance to the simple, durable Defender we know and love...

[ECR]

Cool Find, thanks for sharing! Though, like the others, I'm a bit concerned that if a 'Defender' ever reaches these shores again, it will bare little resemblance to the simple, durable Defender we know and love...


and as soon as they make the "new one" they'll start dropping even more "classic" Defender parts from production so even more parts will be NLA.


... but at least if it does come back we'll get to hear a big "I told you so!" from those people who have been saying it is coming back "soon" and waiting to buy one since 1998!!! :rofl :rofl

Follow-up Post:

FJ40 is to FJCruiser
as
Defender is to "new" Defender

[JSBriggs]

An exploding rollcage. What will they think of next?

-Jeff

[brn24whl]

FJ40 is to FJCruiser
as
Defender is to "new" Defender

That is such a great quote. I bet if it does come back it will be so true.

Eric

[Burke]

Wait! The Defender is coming back?????? :grin

[woldd90]

What are they going to call it... the LR1. How fun would a LR1 be with IFS and 6cyl, with 18" chrome wheels and a DVD player on the roof.

It would probably have a plastic roll cage like the 3 door Freelander.

Sorry, in a pissy mood today.

[Davis]

I can't see a market for it at all unless it would be done like the FJCruiser. Think about it--all of us would LOVE it, but only a few of us would buy it and everyone else would compare it to the other "SUV" similar trucks and it would probably lose. For the general public, Toyotas and Jeeps are much better sellers.

When Ford owned it, and they showed prototypes of the Bronco/D90, I really liked those designs--even better than the FJ Cruiser (which I like) and the 4-door Rubicon which I also like. I am for bringing it back, but I for one am not going to hold my breath...or my hope.

[Ragland]

Before the Ford sale, wasn't the fully redesigned Defender due in 2011 or 2013? This would be the one meeting all upcoming EU regs. If anything, it would be more likely that this future model would get the airbags. As it is, I believe the existing Defender won't meet either US or future EU specs.

If anything, the financial woes of Ford and the PAG likely saved us from some LR1 platform derivative "lifestyle" version they kept hinting at years back.

[tkavan01]

and as soon as they make the "new one" they'll start dropping even more "classic" Defender parts from production so even more parts will be NLA.


... but at least if it does come back we'll get to hear a big "I told you so!" from those people who have been saying it is coming back "soon" and waiting to buy one since 1998!!! :rofl :rofl

Follow-up Post:

FJ40 is to FJCruiser
as
Defender is to "new" Defender
the new fj makes me cry...

[snuffer]

FJ Cruiser....I heard it's going to be the new NATO replacement for the Defender. :question

[Overlander]

This thread is just pissing me off....

[evilfij]

I wonder what percentage of the cost of a "new" defender made in the UK is labour. At .75 cents an hour in India as opposed to $75 an hour in the UK, it might make sense to produce it there.

[tkavan01]

I wonder what percentage of the cost of a "new" defender made in the UK is labour. At .75 cents an hour in India as opposed to $75 an hour in the UK, it might make sense to produce it there.I'm not really for supporting the high wages of the UK(local it's not that much money) however i'm definitely against the slave labor conditions that would result in a factory paying only .75 an hour to it's employees...

[Stmpede]

Now its pissing me off too! I for one hope it never comes back...I just want to watch ours keep appreciating. In fact, I hope they make it illegal to import any european versions too! I like that they are nearly all true NAS right now and only a few have found ways to get newer ones in. If too many euro versions make it over it will start to decrease the price and the rarity of the ones that are here now. Admittedly it will take a lot of them to do that but still...

[ECR]

Most recent Autoweek had a blurb on Land Rover/Tata. It listed dates when design change projects would be put into production. Only mention of the Defender and any changes was for 2015 and it said that was an Autoweek "guess" with no real data, and that they likely saw Tata keeping a simple rugged 4x4 to continue or expand other world markets and not making the Defender into a "car" like most other utes (read between the lines and that means a simple truck that won't have all the BS on it needed for US EPA and DOT).
So for all those guys waiting for its return to the USA... keep waiting! :rofl

[Eric Siepmann]

Now its pissing me off too! I for one hope it never comes back...I just want to watch ours keep appreciating. In fact, I hope they make it illegal to import any european versions too! I like that they are nearly all true NAS right now and only a few have found ways to get newer ones in. If too many euro versions make it over it will start to decrease the price and the rarity of the ones that are here now. Admittedly it will take a lot of them to do that but still...

They are already importing 83 110s. Soon the first 90s will begin to come in. It's a truck, not a peice of art or an investment. Enjoy it and let the collectors worry about decreasing value. As far as appreciation, that is individual to the sale. With the economy as it is I doubt you'll see very many high 40k sales. Hell, 30k would be a good price for a well kept D IMO.

I say the more the merrier. Hopefully the after market will respond to the increased population.

[Stmpede]

Yeah, I know they're coming in now, I just hope there isn't a sudden flood of them. It may or may not be a piece of art to you, but there is no way around the fact that it is a ridiculously impractical vehicle for most US citizens. The only reason they are still worth what they are is that it has been nearly impossible to bring in more. There is not a high demand for defenders, there is a very low supply. An awful lot of Defenders are owned by wealthy business men who have no intention of taking them off road. They are a rich man's Jeep to many, and if they become abundant the appeal will wither, as will the value.

Granted, my opinions are skewed because I'm an Econ & Business Major and bought my 110 as an investment. I plan to get a 90 to keep after I sell the 110, but for now, I like where the market is at and I hope it will continue to rise. The way I see it, those of us in the know will always be able to find a deal somewhere, so we might as well have a market that allows us to get out even or ahead rather than lose like with most vehicles. Just my $.02

[GYM]

I just hope there isn't a sudden flood of them. The only reason they are still worth what they are is that it has been nearly impossible to bring in more. There is not a high demand for defenders, there is a very low supply. An awful lot of Defenders are owned by wealthy business men who have no intention of taking them off road. They are a rich man's Jeep to many, and if they become abundant the appeal will wither, as will the value.

Huh?
Why worry; Beeee happy.

[Eric Siepmann]

Yeah, I know they're coming in now, I just hope there isn't a sudden flood of them. It may or may not be a piece of art to you, but there is no way around the fact that it is a ridiculously impractical vehicle for most US citizens. The only reason they are still worth what they are is that it has been nearly impossible to bring in more. There is not a high demand for defenders, there is a very low supply. An awful lot of Defenders are owned by wealthy business men who have no intention of taking them off road. They are a rich man's Jeep to many, and if they become abundant the appeal will wither, as will the value.

Granted, my opinions are skewed because I'm an Econ & Business Major and bought my 110 as an investment. I plan to get a 90 to keep after I sell the 110, but for now, I like where the market is at and I hope it will continue to rise. The way I see it, those of us in the know will always be able to find a deal somewhere, so we might as well have a market that allows us to get out even or ahead rather than lose like with most vehicles. Just my $.02

You wacky econ majors with your investment "vehicles"! I'm a CPA. I'd sell the 110, buy a nice used 90 and invest the change. Bargains gallore in equities right now if you've got the balls.

Pray the dollar stays weak. If it strengthens, I can see a lot more coming in.

[jordan0527]

It's not like the Brits have been storing 1983 Defenders for 25 years just waiting to ship them over to the US. A 25 year old 110 or 90 from the UK would most likely be in such terrible shape that you'd need to invest thousands of dollars in it just to make it relatively roadworthy. Not to mention the risk of purchasing from someone in a foreign country, and shipping costs across the pond. Better off getting a younger used NAS that has most likely been someone's second vehicle and has less than 100000 miles on it. Unless you manage to purchase one belonging to the Queen herself...

[Maine 110]

Bringing the Defender back would be a huge marketing bonus for LRNA. Land Rover has lost clout in the market without offering a true offroad capable icon like the Defender. Look at what Jeep is doing with the JK Rubicon, offered in 2 and 4 doors ready to wheel, even in this crappy economy they are scarce if not hard to come by... why because they fit the image of a capable off road truck, and they live up to it. The JK brands the entire Jeep line as the "Trail Ready" line of SUVs. I am not trying to start some kind of Jeep vs LR argument, I am merely drawing a parallel here that shows how good the Defender would be for the Rover Line in this country. I am dumbfounded as to why the powers that be at LRNA and corporate have been asleep at the wheel for so long. I am not holding my breath though :rolleyes ... I would buy one, if they are anything like the new ones I've seen at dealerships in the Caribbean. Nice Clean examples of our beloved defenders with a diesel engine...

[dmarchand]

It's not like the Brits have been storing 1983 Defenders for 25 years just waiting to ship them over to the US. A 25 year old 110 or 90 from the UK would most likely be in such terrible shape that you'd need to invest thousands of dollars in it just to make it relatively roadworthy. Not to mention the risk of purchasing from someone in a foreign country, and shipping costs across the pond. Better off getting a younger used NAS that has most likely been someone's second vehicle and has less than 100000 miles on it. Unless you manage to purchase one belonging to the Queen herself...

The art of vin swapping and chassis stamping is prolific in the UK.

[Eric Siepmann]

It's not like the Brits have been storing 1983 Defenders for 25 years just waiting to ship them over to the US. A 25 year old 110 or 90 from the UK would most likely be in such terrible shape that you'd need to invest thousands of dollars in it just to make it relatively roadworthy. Not to mention the risk of purchasing from someone in a foreign country, and shipping costs across the pond. Better off getting a younger used NAS that has most likely been someone's second vehicle and has less than 100000 miles on it. Unless you manage to purchase one belonging to the Queen herself...

True, but the parts price and availability are there in the UK. So many old 110's around. All any Brit needs is a title that states 83 and bobs your uncle.

You also have outfits like Global Land Rovers or whomever that guy is posting here and on DWEB.

My guess is the people that really want a 110 and do not want to pay the NAS price will bring one in either refurbished or do it themselves. Call crazy uncle George and spend a bit.

Until this year there were absolutely no 110 scratch build thread. Now there are 2.

[Ragland]

True, but the parts price and availability are there in the UK. So many old 110's around. All any Brit needs is a title that states 83 and bobs your uncle.

You also have outfits like Global Land Rovers or whomever that guy is posting here and on DWEB.

My guess is the people that really want a 110 and do not want to pay the NAS price will bring one in either refurbished or do it themselves. Call crazy uncle George and spend a bit.

Until this year there were absolutely no 110 scratch build thread. Now there are 2.


IMO, there will be a lot of 110's coming in. After all, there are only 500 NAS units to go around. Many of those will also need substantial work, but the UK 110 won't have the high entry cost. Some will pay for the NAS premium, but many will not. Regardless, there just aren't that many going up for sale. From this year on, someone with $10k and up can go get a 110. Companies are starting to respond, and pretty soon inventory will build. Some may be junk, but there will be buyers. For the guy who wants to toy around with a LR for a few years, not the collector or the aficionado, this will be the easiest way into a 110.

[Eric Siepmann]

You'd think. But with all the talk over on DWEEB at the beginning of the year you'd think they would have sold their junk and bought a UK D110. But not many have done so. That is the most envious forum out there IMO.

I think there is a lot of talk right now. It's a pipe dream for me at this point. I'll start saving for one in the fall and do it right. New everything and hold onto it. 300tdi would be nice.

Web Fabricating is Fun though. My hat is off to the guys that actually do it.

[Ragland]

You'd think. But with all the talk over on DWEEB at the beginning of the year you'd think they would have sold their junk and bought a UK D110. But not many have done so. That is the most envious forum out there IMO.

I think there is a lot of talk right now. It's a pipe dream for me at this point. I'll start saving for one in the fall and do it right. New everything and hold onto it. 300tdi would be nice.

Web Fabricating is Fun though. My hat is off to the guys that actually do it.

Here's my take.

Those aren't necessarily the ones who will be buying up these trucks. Some will, of course. I imagine more than a few 110-on-a-budget/"every spare dollar goes to the car" types will, unfortunately, get burned.

My guess is that the predominance of these 110's will go to the sort of people who can buy and sell a $10-20-30k car without worrying about daily driver issues or financing. They will be special interest/hobby cars that will trade hands often and allow people to exercise some interest they have in owning a "real" LR.

Another significant portion of these likely will be imported with the idea they will rebuilt by various shops. Expect to see a lot of '83 110's with awful diamond plate work, odd-ball roll bar designs, and sketchy frame patch jobs. Most will be painted black, yellow, or some custom color.

[pendy]

AA is 83-84 VIN identification for defender. So there is no actual 1983 VIN#.. It takes historical documents along with the VIN# to make it correct.

HINT

[Stmpede]

My thinking is, the 110s are going for so much that you can import one that is relatively rough and rebuild it to like new. I personally have replaced an awful lot on my NAS 110 and if you can do the work yourself it is not nearly as expensive if you start with a cheap base and then you can build it exactly how you want it and have a like new vehicle.

I personally love the NAS trucks and would pay a little more to find one in decent shape and fix it up, but like someone else mentioned, there are only so many and I think there will be a decent market for EU trucks if they are here. I watch the 110 market pretty closely and even rough ones are going for around $40k, really nice ones are going as high as $150k. If you buy a rough truck from the EU for $10k you can spend $30k (either yourself or to a company) to rebuild it and it will be much nicer than the $40k NAS trucks currently being offered.

Eric...that is precisely my plan, sell the 110, buy a 90 and invest the rest! :grin

One day I'll probably have another 110, but not right now, I like the ST 90s a lot, and don't need the extra room at this point in my life.

[JimC]

Are you going to sell it at the dealership so you can exact a premium?

[Eric Siepmann]

My thinking is, the 110s are going for so much that you can import one that is relatively rough and rebuild it to like new. I personally have replaced an awful lot on my NAS 110 and if you can do the work yourself it is not nearly as expensive if you start with a cheap base and then you can build it exactly how you want it and have a like new vehicle.

I personally love the NAS trucks and would pay a little more to find one in decent shape and fix it up, but like someone else mentioned, there are only so many and I think there will be a decent market for EU trucks if they are here. I watch the 110 market pretty closely and even rough ones are going for around $40k, really nice ones are going as high as $150k. If you buy a rough truck from the EU for $10k you can spend $30k (either yourself or to a company) to rebuild it and it will be much nicer than the $40k NAS trucks currently being offered.

Eric...that is precisely my plan, sell the 110, buy a 90 and invest the rest! :grin

One day I'll probably have another 110, but not right now, I like the ST 90s a lot, and don't need the extra room at this point in my life.


Yeah. I am kinda bitter as the 110s always went for more and suited my lifestyle back in the day.

After looking at Timm Cooper builds on the net I think I want a 109 from him. Net net I'll be about the same as building a 110 anyway.

You need to brush up on your accounting. You forgot shipping, all sorts of misc. fees, transport et al. You could end up with much less than 30k to spend if you had to transport it from port any distance.

Start a 401k. Retire with your rover fleet early. and out west where there is no salt :)

[Eric Siepmann]

Couple more new 110s on the board. Kinda makes me want a real NAS 110.

EwS

[GYM]

As prices rise, and the limited number of NAS 110's continue to trade hands; I wonder how soon it will be before places like ECR start getting requests to restore 110 diesel conversions back to stock configuration.

[ECR]

As prices rise, and the limited number of NAS 110's continue to trade hands; I wonder how soon it will be before places like ECR start getting requests to restore 110 diesel conversions back to stock configuration.

Hence the reason why we save all these old parts do mods that can be easily undone (as in not cutting wiring, but making sub harnesses) that allow the truck to go back to stock without too much hassle. ;) ;)

Already we "down size" a lot of 110s. These days we take out more lift kits than we put in 110s. The trend you mention has already started IMO.

[Stmpede]

You need to brush up on your accounting. You forgot shipping, all sorts of misc. fees, transport et al. You could end up with much less than 30k to spend if you had to transport it from port any distance.
True, but shipping isn't all that much. You can ship a truck across the country for about $1,500 and as I said, an NAS for $40k still needs a lot, so you could restore one to better shape for that. I admit you very well may be over $40k to have it perfect, but you'd still have less in it than an NAS 110 in the same condition IMO.

[Jon_Winningham]

There are 24 pages to this thread. Sorry if this has already been posted, but it may be worth pointing out again.
Refer to the last two paragraphs.

http://www.drivesouth.co.nz/news/roadtests/5763/defender-an-endangered-species

Seems like the rest of the word is catching up to US safety levels. Tata will have to change the Defender in some way.

[fleabus]

Apologies in advance if this has already been posted elsewhere:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/land-rover-defender-2012.html

:sad

[lrnasd90]

Oh wow that is ugly. No matter what it is....

[themaxx]

It's a Ford Flex/Honda Element offspring...terrible.

[mgreenspan]

That's the dumbest "guess" at what it will look like. So good to be using the RRS platform. Good choice there.

------ Follow up post added May 1st, 2010 03:37 AM ------

that's sarcasm btw.

[JimC]

yeah, those "artists conceptions" in car mags always suck. I hate that "is this the next corvette?" crap.

[roverguy]

that is hideous... I really hope it never looks like that...

[roverguy]

This is a little better...

27234

[Cred]

Is that artist rendition an Amigo look-a-like?
Second version is better.

[Rugbier]

For a minute I thought I was watching a bad copy of the movie CARS

Go DJ.... Lightning McQueen can wait .... go ...............go............

[roverguy]

Just watched this video and the drawing almost looks like that ugly defender... Shit....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3FhhBbe0A&playnext_from=TL&videos=_zok47y7kaQ

[Willh]

Interesting video........Of course, the "Yank" seems to be the only one on the right track!! :clap


However, if Land Rover comes out with this orange thing, I don't think I'll ever buy another new Land Rover again:stick .............

[stu454]

Why does that orange motoring appliance make me think a Honda Element and a RR Phantom had a drunken tryst?

[Willh]

May I offer an example of an American 4x4 automotive manufacturer who has done an exceptional job at NOT SCREWING UP A GOOD THING. And it even looks good in Orange!!! (unlike that "thing" in my last post) :clap :toast :thumbs :party

To the Boys at Land Rover, if you're listening, there's NO NEED to "reinvent the wheel".

Then & Now: (see pics below)

[rijosho]

May I offer an example of an American 4x4 automotive manufacturer who has done an exceptional job at NOT SCREWING UP A GOOD THING. And it even looks good in Orange!!! (unlike that "thing" in my last post) :clap :toast :thumbs :party

Then & Now: (see pics below)


I must point to the 90s when Jeep did screw up the design with the square headlamps. Seemed like most manufacturers gave that a try for a few years (Jag XJs, Mustangs, Jeep/Chrysler, GM), then made a big point of marketing the hell out of going back to the design's roots. Mind you, this happened after "New Coke" too!

[Willh]

I must point to the 90s when Jeep did screw up the design with the square headlamps. Seemed like most manufacturers gave that a try for a few years (Jag XJs, Mustangs, Jeep/Chrysler, GM), then made a big point of marketing the hell out of going back to the design's roots. Mind you, this happened after "New Coke" too!

"Square Headlights"? Come on......I wouldn't exactly equate that with "screwing up the design". Cosmetically, it was about the only thing they changed. There's a difference between putting the square vs. round headlights in an overall design that hasn't changed since before Land Rover were even conceived, and that "abomination" of a concept above. Aside from the headlights, you could still tell that a YJ Wrangler was a Jeep and it still did what a Jeep was supposed to do. I'd gladly take a Defender with "square headlights" if the rest of the design wasn't screwed up. Just my $.02................

P.S.- Speaking of "squared headlamps", have you looked at either of those Defender concepts above?

[roverguy]

The first one doesnt look half bad... That orange thing is an abomination.

On another note... What does everyone think of the fact that Land Rover is coming out with a Front wheel drive Range Rover?

[dmarchand]

Dilutes the brand elitism but expands the potential we'll get some future product that resembles a Defender.

LR is crushing their sales goals with the 2010 lineup right now which is good.