VDO Speedometer Parts/Installation/Problems Merged Threads

[redrover]

I just bought a egauges progamable vdo speedo. I have a 97 d90 and am looking for someone who has installed in a 97. The wiring is complete jibberish to me. My mannual does not help and neither does searching. THANKS JP

[chrisvonc]

JP, not sure what you need help with but here are a couple referances for VDO that came up in the searches:
http://www.d-90.com/tech/speedometer_replacement.html
http://www.d-90.com/discus/messages/16/1022.html
http://www.d-90.com/discus/messages/16/2063.html
http://www.d-90.com/discus/messages/16/2405.html
http://www.d-90.com/faq/Interior/IntInstruments.html#Speedo

[RyanS]

JP,

Did you get all the info you needed? If not, I've installed a programmable VDO in my 110 and could possibly help you out. The wiring is pretty straightfoward, and I think the only difference between our trucks is that I don't have a VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor). BTW, the sender I used in my transfer case is PN YBE100540 (the AMR # indicated in one of the links is obsolete).

[TDI Guy]

ryan, how did you do it? I have a sensor in my t-case and it has a 3 wire connection. what do i do?


Randy

[RyanS]

Randy,

There are basically three things that need to be wired on the VDO: 1) Lights - use existing speedo light circuit, and wire the two VDO lamps in series, 2) Power - use ignition switched power tp pin 4 and grd to pin 3, and 3) Speed Sensor. The speed sensor is potentially the most confusing part. I have the YBE100540 sender in my T-case, and it's a 2-wire sensor. So I ran shielded cable from it to the speedo, pins 7 & 8 (no intermediate VSS since I don't have any electronics in my truck). If you have a Hall effect 3-wire sensor, then split the white wire to speedo pins 6 & 8, black wire to pin 3, and red wire to pin 2.

Now you need to calibrate the speedo. If you drive around without calibrating it, you may think it's not working but the calibration is just way off. For my sender, I set the Pulse setting to 7650 (this works for my setup: 3.54 final drive, 1.22 transfer case, 35" tires). Use a GPS or mile markers to tweak it in.

Hope that helps.

[TDI Guy]

cool thanks. my t-case is out of a 2000 defender and it has a 3pin sender that is actually a vdo part. it must be the hall sender then.

[redrover]

Hi Randy, What color are your wires coming out of sender. if I have a 97 , wouldnt all wires running into my ome speedo get used on new speedo? My old speedo has 6 wires running into it--yellow, thin blk, blk/red , thicker blk , white , red. I assume one red is switched from ignition. And maybe one blk is a ground. My problem is I have no clue what or where my sender is. I installed my lt230rc gears solo, but other than disconnecting multiplugs, I dont remember the plug set up. I looked under and around case , but cant get a good view of all wiring. Any ideas appreciated. JP

[TDI Guy]

I have no clue what the plug colors are. I just see that the plug has a 3 pin connector for a plug to go in it.

[RyanS]

Been meaning to get back to this.

Randy - It does sound like you've got a Hall Effect sender. These generally have three leads in this order: Power, Gnd, Output. I don't know if Land Rover follows any color coding conventions, but if you find a schematic for it, that would be the easiest way to sort it out. Otherwise you can do some continuity tests and verify the pin assignments (I think it should react like a transistor with Base, Collector, Emitter pins). Otherwise, it might be easier just to go to the YBE100540 sender, if they're interchangeable, which is inductive, and simpler to deal with (only 2 wires and no power required).

JP - I think you can use your existing speedo wiring. I haven't seen a schematic, but here's my guesses based on the wires you identified and other schematics I've seen:

Yellow = VSS
Thin Black = Gnd
Black/Red = VSS
Thick Black = Gnd
White = Ign Switched Power
Red = Lamp Switched Power

You can easily verify ignition switched power and lamped switched power by using a voltmeter to see if they're hot when you switch the ign or lamps On. You can easily verify Grounds by checking continuity to ground. So all that leaves are the VSS signals. AFAIK, the YBE100540 sender that I'm using is also used in the '97 Defenders. If so, then it's an inductive sensor that just uses two wires and provides an open/closed circuit depending upon sensor rotational position. So this can easily be tested by placing a continuity meter on the two suspected VSS wires, and see if the signal goes high and low as the truck moves. If you actually have a 3-wire Hall Effect sensor, then you'll have to sort it out like Randy.

[JCRover4x4]

RedRover,
You can use the speed sensor output from the ECU for the gauges signal input. I've been having problems wiring it into a 95 D90, but it is easy on your 97 D90.
Feel free to call me @ 303-918-3876
Jeff C.
JC's Rover & 4x4
jcrover4x4@comcast.net

P.S. I live just south of Denver, if your close I can help you out.

[TDI Guy]

I will take a pic of my sender and post it for you to see. I think the pins are marked +, - and o....

[mgrgpg]

To anyone who has a '94 with VDO Programmable Speedo:

I am having trouble getting the speedo to work right. I have it installed correctly per the directions, and have the cables routed with an adapter to the transducer on the frame. When I go through the programming, all works well, and the odometer is right on mile after mile on the highway. The problem is that the speedometer needle is bouncing around. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mark

[DJ Menasco]

I noticed this post a while ago but wasn't sure of the answer until I found another source of information to corroborate my initial thoughts. Anyway, for what its worth I found this:

>If there's no noise accompanying the bouncing it's likely that your speedometer cable has been kinked. >The only cure for that is a new cable.
>
>"Bouncing" can also be caused by the speedometer head drying out. When a speedometer is assembled >or repaired, they usually put a drop of oil on the bearings. If this oil gets old and gummy or collects a lot >of dust it will cause the bouncing you describe.


Hope this helps.

DJ

[Red90]

He is talking about an electronic speedo. I'd say it is buggered. Probably best to ask VDO............

[dsticht]

Mark...the problem most likely lies before the vdo adapter. the speedo cable is sticky or kinked or the pulse counter at the end of cable is dirty inside causing erratic pulse counts. the total counts per mile might add up correctly but the short term counts vary causing the speedo to jump around. that's what happened to mine. i replaced the unit. Dave

[TDI Guy]

ok, here is the sender that is in my truck and the wire. I believe this would be from a TD5 truck. the wires are, white/green, black, black/red... any ideas what type of sensor it is orhow to hook it up?

Randy

[DJ Menasco]

Randy

Have a look at this link, page 12, right hand side, the 12V option: (http://www.lowtension.com/performance%20kit.pdf). Is your sensor the Hall Effect with an Open Collector circuit? Sorry, but I could only tell that the sensor was made by VDO, however, it really looks like it.

Regardless, the white/green line is probably the sensor output, black is ground, and the red/black is the sensor hot lead. With some 0.250" blue spade terminals & adhesive lined 3/16" heat-shrink

1. Attach a hot lead from the battery to terminal #4. Make sure this line is fused appropriately.
You should splice into another hot lead in your dash that is already fused and functions with the
lamps. I spliced into my fuel gauge hot lead.

2. Next attach the red/black to terminal #2. This is the sensors power lead.

3. Butt-splice the white/green line to terminals #6 & #8.

4. Finally, complete the circuit and ground the system (both the gauge and the sensor) by piggy-
backing the solid black wire from the sensor & main ground line to terminal #3, e.g. you should
have one black wire running from the sensor to terminal #3 AND another black wire (supplied by
you) running from terminal #3 to a ground source.

At this point the speedo should be good-to-go and you can should calibrate it. Hope this helps.

DJ

[RyanS]

DJ beat me to it. His instructions are correct except I looked at a TD5 electrical schematic, and the wire color coding is:

WG = Power
B = Ground
BR = Sensor Output

So follow DJ's instructions except connect WG (Power) to pin #2 and BR (Sensor Output) splits to pins 6 and 8.

[DJ Menasco]

Nice Ryan! My "color coding" would have had Randy pretty frustrated at the end of the day! By the way, where did you locate the TD5 electrical schematic?

DJ

[RyanS]

i have it on the Rave CD. Hopefully it's better than my LR manual where I've found several errors relative to what's actually wired in my truck.

[mgrgpg]

Thanks for the help....Sent the Speedo to North Hollywood Speedometer Shop. They checked it out, and the speedo worked fine. It turned out to be that the transducer box was dirty, and the lower speedo cable was worn. We replaced the cable, cleaned and greased everything, now it works great.

[DJ Menasco]

They should be! Here's the link http://www.egauges.com/

DJ

[TDI Guy]

Does anyone have the VDO speedo part # that is needed? Also, what VDO fuel guage workes? THey make a few different ones in the Vision series?


RAndy

[RyanS]

Randy - VDO Speedo I used was PN 437-155.

[John_Karlsson]

I am trying to install a VDO Vision speedometer in my D90/RR hybrid with LT77 and LT230. I have the VDO speedo and the AMR1253 sender mentioned in the speedometer coversion tech article. The sender looks as if it should replace the mechanical speedo cable, though I haven't yet confirmed that.

The VDO instructions show a Hall effect sensor with three contacts. The AMR1253 has only two contacts. Any tips on wiring?

[TDI Guy]

John, yes it replaces the sender in the t-case. Also. CHeck the directions. It should show 2 types of installs. One with 3 wires and one with 2 wires

[John_Karlsson]

Randy,

Well, actually the instructions that came with the VDO show three different wiring methods. We can immediately dismiss the one for the Electronic Control Box, as this vehicle has the 200Tdi and is very, uhhh... primitive. There is a two wire setup for the Inductive Sender and a three wire setup for the Hall Effect Sensor.

If I understand these matters correctly (hah!), the Inductive Sender would be a magnetic sensor that would detect pulses from a rotating component, e.g., a flywheel with embedded magnet. The Hall Effect Sensor shown in the VDO instructions has a rotating shaft that replaces the mechanical cable connected to the transfer case and three wires, one of which is a ground.

Are you saying that I should connect the speedo according to the Inductive Sender diagram, even though the AMR 1253 appears to be a Hall Effect Sensor?

Thanks!

[pendy]

Yes wire it like that. be sure your speed sensor male 'prong' is the same size as the speedo gear you are using.

JP

[roverboy]

I have purchased a VDO programmable speedometer and new cable to replace the failed unit from my truck. Per the FAQ on this site, I have found a local speedo shop here in town that can cut down the OEM cable and mate it to the new VDO electronic cable. No big deal.

The problem is this...like a jackass, when I removed the nut and small retaining clip that holds the OEM speedo cable into the transfer case, (before Thanksgiving I might add) I promptly misplaced them. Now the speedo guy is ready to go and I don't have the necessary part to hold the cable in place. He told me that he can probably fab one for me but I'd need to leave my truck there all day and I'm not wanting to pay someone for a day's work trying to fabricate a $.35 part if i can help it.

Can anyone help? Does anyone have these parts laying around your shop someplace? My tranny is the R-380 5 Speed, and it's a mecanical cable, NOT the electronic cable that plugs in to the t-case. The entire drive train is about 6 years old.

I looked at Rovers North and the only part they have that sounds close is called an oil plug retaining plate or something like that. I don't even know what this thing is called and can't remember what it looks like. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[JimC]

Any one of the parts places should be able to help you out. Rob D can definitely help you out.

[roverboy]

George at RDS is looking but I haven't heard back from him yet. Hey Rob....you have what I need? :-)

[scoloco]

So did you do away with the transducer? Your new VDO adapter cable goes into the t-case, or into the transducer which is hooked up to the tcase via a short cable?

[Roadsiderob]

I checked and I have not located any used ones in the shop.

[roverboy]

I may have located one, I'll let you guys know. Thanks for looking, Rob.

As for the new VDO cable, it has the wrong fitting to sinc up to the OEM cable and can't plug directly into the TC. I read a the thread on this site in the FAQ's about switching to the VDO programmable speedo, and it said to go to a speedometer shop and:

1. Tell them you will bring in the new VDO sender/cable and your old cable.

2. Ask them to install a 7/8" x 18 male end onto your old cable. This new male end gets installed on the speedometer end of the cable, and this (newly shortened) cable only needs to be 3-4" long. The existing female end of your original cable is retained.

3. Using this new short cable as an adapter, screw the original female end into the little frame mounted box right where it used to go, and screw the new male end into the female end of the VDO sender/cable, and zip-tie the sender box (which is a cube about 1-1/2" on each side) to the frame so it doesn't bounce around.

4. Hook up the speedo end of the sender/cable to the VDO speedo.

5. Calibrate per directions.

6. Drive around in complete confidence that your speedometer is accurate for a change.

I haven't had a working Speedo since I've had my truck (about 6 months now) so i can't wait to get it fixed.

[evilfij]

"
Electronic Speedo: 85MPH (#437 154), however these might be out of production by now so you'll have to use the 120MPH (#437 155)"

Definately want the 120mph (see avitar)

[DJ Menasco]

"
Electronic Speedo: 85MPH (#437 154), however these might be out of production by now so you'll have to use the 120MPH (#437 155)"

Definately want the 120mph (see avitar)


Is that 90 or 120mph Ron? I guess it really depends on the shaking of the cab.

[TDI Guy]

Whats nice aout the electronic speedo is that if you change tire sizes, you just adjust the speedo and you are accurate again.. I have the 120mph one. I have done 80+ going down hill lol :)

[scoloco]

"Electronic Speedo: 85MPH (#437 154), however these might be out of production by now so you'll have to use the 120MPH (#437 155)"

Is that 90 or 120mph Ron? I guess it really depends on the shaking of the cab.

VDO #437 155 is the 120MPH version
VDO #437 157 is the 85MPH (with kph markings sorta similar to stock) in 100mm size but I've only found one website that lists them. Getting ready to start a phone hunt coz this is what I want if I can find one.

[Captain Spalding]

Check me on this please: Is there an odometer built into the VDO programmable speedometer? If so, is there a means of programming the total vehicle mileage into the new speedometer? If there's no odometer, aren't there potential legal and ethical issues involved in not knowing the actual mileage of the truck when it's time to sell it? Doesn't it hurt the resale value of a car when you have to check the little box that says Actual Mileage Unknown on the title/transfer papers? Just asking. . .

Follow-up Post:

Sorry. I just read elsewhere that one can toggle between an odometer and trip odometer. I wonder if the actual mileage can be programmed in, or if it starts from zero, and you have to get some sort of certification from your DMV or something.

[DJ Menasco]

Follow-up Post:

Sorry. I just read elsewhere that one can toggle between an odometer and trip odometer. I wonder if the actual mileage can be programmed in, or if it starts from zero, and you have to get some sort of certification from your DMV or something.

both are true. The miliage is zero out of the box. If you want to add the current mileage of you D90 you can do that too. I took mine to the local speedo shop and they adjusted the milage on the odometer of the VDO to represent the true milage of the vehicle. I think it was about $70?

DJ

[btate]

Ok,
For us 94 folks that have the old school odometer....Do you have any idea if there is a model that connects back in to the speedo cable without major adjustments?

Thanks

[Captain Spalding]

both are true. The miliage is zero out of the box. If you want to add the current mileage of you D90 you can do that too. I took mine to the local speedo shop and they adjusted the milage on the odometer of the VDO to represent the true milage of the vehicle. I think it was about $70?

DJ
I just bought the VDO programmable at North Hollywood Speedometer (http://www.nhspeedometer.com/). If you buy it from them, they will program the odometer mileage free of charge, and if you send in the original speedometer, they can even swap out the gauge face and needle for a $50 service fee. :)

[scoloco]

I just bought the VDO programmable at North Hollywood Speedometer (http://www.nhspeedometer.com/). If you buy it from them, they will program the odometer mileage free of charge, and if you send in the original speedometer, they can even swap out the gauge face and needle for a $50 service fee. :)

Damn, so now you tell me... I just got mine from summit and need to find a local shop to do the cable conversion for the adaptor (and hopefully either adjust the mileage or tell me how to do it).

[Captain Spalding]

Damn, so now you tell me... I just got mine from summit and need to find a local shop to do the cable conversion for the adaptor (and hopefully either adjust the mileage or tell me how to do it).
I think only a speedo shop can do it. As you look at the back of the VDO speedo, on the left side, remove the light. Look in the hole. On the right edge of the hole on the PCB there are three spots onto which your local speedo tech will solder some leads, hook up to a computer, and use a proprietary computer program to adjust the odometer.

Sorry my timing wasn't better. . . .

[roverboy]

I just recently switched mine to a programmable VDO, and I think my speedo shop charged me about $150 bucks for them to make the new cable, install it and program it.

[Captain Spalding]

I apologize for starting yet another thread on the VDO Programmable Speedo. I have a very specific question, and reviewing the previous threads hasn't answered it.

I installed a VDO programmable into my '97 Defender today, swapping pins in the factory connector. Red/BLK for VSS, WHT/GRN for switched 12 volt. One solid black for ground. The RED/WHT and other solid black for the illumination. I was able to get the speedo calibrated using a GPS, and it seems to be working fine, with one caveat:

In the VDO instructions, it says that when the speedometer is powered up, the needle will make a single sweep up to the top of the scale and back to zero. But when I switch the key on, the needle makes a slight jump below zero, and then back up to zero.

All that is really left to be suspicious of is the yellow lead, which goes to number 7 on the LR speedo. For lack of a better idea, I have left it in that position on the VDO. On the VDO, that position is used by the speedometer when wired to an inductive sensor. On the LR wiring diagram, the yellow wire goes from the speedo to the Engine Control System.

So, my question: what are the ramifications of disconnecting that lead altogether? Does the ECU use that wire to get a signal from the speedo or vice versa? If the former, what happens if the ECU doesn't get that signal? If the ECU does in fact require a signal, what are my options?


Thanks,

Spalding

P.S.: I haven't checked for a VSS error code. My CHECK ENGINE light is on most of the time owing to the ubiquitous P1317/Rough Road issue. But that is another story. :angry

Follow-up Post:

:eek: :eek:

Er, never mind. I've been working from the wrong wiring diagram I guess. I'd still like to know why my speedo dips below 0 when it powers up rather than going to the top of the scale. . .

I guess I gotta cop to it . . . (http://nelson.oit.unc.edu/~alanh/images/dumbass-293x184.jpg)

[btate]

Ok,
Doing the full VDO vision gauge swap as discussed frequently.
(94 d90 r-380)
I saw a post that linked ECU problems (throwing codes and check engine lights) to lack of factory speed sensor input. This tells computer what speed the truck is driving. From what I can figure the speedo cable goes into a sensor housing that sends this info.

My question....is there a problem with simple placing the speedometer end of the old speedo cable into the VDO speed sensor??
It will take some rigging, but the factory plastic connector is not the best setup anyway, I could get it at least that strong??

It seems that it would elimate some problems and be alot simple install????
Thanks
Bryan

Follow-up Post:

Maybe I am missing something.
Does the new sensor install to t-case (maybe it doesn't bypass the old sensor)?
or does it install to back side of the vss?

[souza]

Does the new sensor install to t-case (maybe it doesn't bypass the old sensor)?
or does it install to back side of the vss?

bryan

The 'new' sensor you're talking about is the hall effect sender, right? I just did this install last week on my truck. The hall effect sender is installed after the vehicle speed sender, which you must keep. That is, you've got a cable from the transfer case to the little box on the frame (VSS). Out of that box some wires go to the ECU, and another cable runs up into the engine bay then through the bulkhead to the back of the stock speedo. This is your 'speedometer cable' and the one that you'll modify in option 1 below. You do have to keep the factory vehicle speed sensor else you'll have the code issues, etc., that you mention. So to install the VDO, you have two options:

1, have a speedo shop cut down the long cable to the speedo into a small cable with the stock end for the vss and a 'new' 7/8" GM end which is screwed into the 'new' hall effect sender. The hall effect sender has 3 wires that run to the back of the VDO speedo (12v, signal, Grnd). This seems to be the standard route, and is what I did, but it cost more than expected for the cable modfication ($50)

2, I just found out today there is another option, less expensive because you don't need the hall effect sendor or the cable modification, but also seems easier. You can simply tap into one of the wires coming from the vss (little box between speedo cables) and run a wire directly to the VDO Speedo for a pulse signal. I think I read that the vss has 2 wires, a green and yellow, both go up to the ECU. There may be another wire, but either way it's the yellow wire that sends the speed pulse signal to the ECU (Green is 12v power). Apparently this signal can also be read by the VDO speedo, you just run it straight to pin 8 on the back of the VDO.

I found this new option looking back at some old posts to the D90 yahoo group. I wish I had read this before buying the hall effect sender and sending out the speedo cable! I'd be interested to see how it works if you go this route. It seems the simpler way for sure.

Good luck, let me know how it goes.

-Dave

[btate]

great,
your approach sounds simple.
I will try it this morning if time allows.
I also saw this from a buddy Tom Peacock....


As for the new VDO cable, it has the wrong fitting to sinc up to the OEM cable and can't plug directly into the TC. I read a the thread on this site in the FAQ's about switching to the VDO programmable speedo, and it said to go to a speedometer shop and:

1. Tell them you will bring in the new VDO sender/cable and your old cable.

2. Ask them to install a 7/8" x 18 male end onto your old cable. This new male end gets installed on the speedometer end of the cable, and this (newly shortened) cable only needs to be 3-4" long. The existing female end of your original cable is retained.

3. Using this new short cable as an adapter, screw the original female end into the little frame mounted box right where it used to go, and screw the new male end into the female end of the VDO sender/cable, and zip-tie the sender box (which is a cube about 1-1/2" on each side) to the frame so it doesn't bounce around.

4. Hook up the speedo end of the sender/cable to the VDO speedo.

5. Calibrate per directions.

6. Drive around in complete confidence that your speedometer is accurate for a change.

[btate]

Ok,
I found the yellow wire and taped into ready to hook up to speedo
The Hall effect sender installation shows to connect to pin 6 & 8 (not just 8)

Do still recommend going to pin 8 only?
Thanks

[souza]

What I read said pin 8 only. I'd try that first, then if it doesn't work, try 6 & 8. I just 2x checked the speedo instructions, it says 6 & 8 for the hall effect, 7 & 8 for the inductive, and just 8 for using an 'electronic' transmission. In this case, that's you ;)

[loykd]

Dave, where did you get your speedo cable modified?

[souza]

Don't bother Ken, just hook it straight up to the VSS like Bryan did. Right to Pin 8 on the speedo. I'm pretty sure he got it working, we were emailing offline. Last I know he just needed to calibrate it.

But if you still want to send it out, I got mine done at Hartford Speedometer in Connecticut (check yahoo yellow pages). Cost like $65 with shipping, and took several conversations to explain what I wanted. Of course, I didn't send them the new hall effect sender b/c I already had it installed and wired-up.

[btate]

Correct,
I taped staight into the VSS and sent the Hall effect unit back to e-gauges.

BUT.... I haven't calibrated yet. I have adjusted the pulses so I am close. But I just got the 33's on and haven't gotten out yet to make sure I can dial it in. I feel confident it will work, I had the pulses to high and the needle shot around quickly....ran the miles up fast also.
I lowered the pulses and got the needle to move smoothly, just shows my speed way low now.

I will get the truck back from the stereo store in a few days and will try to find a mile marker or 2 to calibrate by the end of the week.
Bryan

[Backstay]

I have done this now as well. Hooked up the yellow wire to pin 8, everything calibrated well and works perfectly except for one thing. .... I come to a stop and occasionally the speedo does not. It will read 30 mph or so and will increase like a tach when the truck is stopped and I rev her up. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John

[btate]

Ignore it? Just kidding. Mine needle tends to bounce around a bit also. I was thinking my VSS was weak/wearing? But I guess that's the limit of the VSS. I wonder if your pin settings are correct.
I had to flip the small switches different than the original write-up by DJ. Mine does go to zero and stays once stopped. But bounces around 10-15 just before stopping. It seems to be reading a bit low now also. I am going to recalibrate and see if it improves. I may try the Hall effect method if it gets annoying. I assume you have a good ground?

[Backstay]

I believe my ground is good. My only issue with it continuing at a stop is the odometer also continues to tick over. I suppose I shouldn't be worried getting all those extra miles per gallon. Thanks for the input.

John

[souza]

John it sounds like it only either be the VSS itself or the small cable that runs from the xfer case into the VSS. Do you also have trouble with the idle of the truck while that's happening? Not throughing and codes is it?

[scoloco]

I have done this now as well. Hooked up the yellow wire to pin 8, everything calibrated well and works perfectly except for one thing. .... I come to a stop and occasionally the speedo does not. It will read 30 mph or so and will increase like a tach when the truck is stopped and I rev her up. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
John

Ok so I *finally* got around to hooking up my new VDO. I tapped into the yellow wire, went to pin8 (very small guage wire). Calibrated via auto-calibration (came to around 10310 pulses if I read it correctly). Speedo is all over the place. I'll be chugging along at something slow (20mph?) and the needle will go up to 30, and/or 40mph, for a bit before coming back to 20. When I stop it again sits at 20 or 30 before dropping to 0. Once at 0 though, it stays there.
Any thoughts? Or is it just a really dirty signal. Different, or bigger guage wire going to make a difference?
FWIW, I tapped it in the engine bay, top rear right corner where the wire comes up to a plug.

[btate]

This is sounding like a pattern. Mine Jumps also. Seemed to work initially but it wasn't even close to calibrated so that may have dampened the bounce.

My bet is the Factory VSS is not a reliable signal for the VDO swap.

I just got used to it. Seems like a good way to get out of a speeding ticket?? Kidding
If I find a speedo shop I may reorder the Hall effect sender and go that route.

Someone else mentioned that the 97 and 94 were different and that maybe a 97 would be smoother?
But I have not looked up part numbers to verify. Something about it plugging into the transfer case directly.
But I don't have a 97 close by to verify.

Bryan

[souza]

What a disappointment. I'm pretty sure the info I got of the old Yahoo groups archives was for the pre-97 trucks though. Of course, those trucks were 5 years newer then. I will say that mine bounces a bit, even using the hall effect and modified cable. Not bad, but cruising along steady it will move up and down 1-3 MPH sort of regularly.

I'll tell you, you've got to wonder what kind of info the ECU is getting with the signal bouncing around like that. My truck idles too high for a few seconds when coming to a stop, I've thought it was a bad VSS.

Scott I didn't know this wire went to the top right of the engine bay, I thought it when only from the transfer case to the ECU.... ?

[scoloco]

I wasnt sure it would work. Wire is really thin small guage stuff and I suspect there is a lot of noise between the VSS and the speedo at this point. I was hoping for the best. Fortunately I still have the hall effect sensor that I got with the speedo (before I found out about trying the VSS wire). Guess its time to go get my cable adapted (good thing I didnt throw it out - its buggered but enough is still good to adapt).
ECU is likely just looking for a signal to know the car is not stood. With a signal that noisy I doubt it really cares too much. Besides after putting bigger tires on and regearing, no one seems to have much problem w/ the ECU, even though this would throw the signal off a bit.

As for the idle deal, I've had a number of cars that would do that - idle high (~1100) until it came to a dead stop and then the idle would drop to 800 or so. (This is what my speedo did - go figure). My truck used to do that but stopped not too long ago. I figured something got out of whack, but I havent dug yet and it hasnt affected anything yet.

VSS wire goes over to the right frame rail, along it for a bit, up into the engine compartment along the firewall to the upper corner where there is a plug before it goes in to the ECU. I tapped in just after the plug. (joys of having the factory manual - for once it was useful!)

[loykd]

Is the verdict then to modify the speedo cable rather than just do the wire mod?

Scott, once you made that change (presuming you did), did the needle jumpiness go away?

[btate]

That's what I would do. The wire is quick and easy, but pretty much makes the speedo worthless for any accurate reading

[efournier]

I used a brass 3/8 - 1/2 NPT adapter to mount the hall effect sender directly to the VSS. I shortened the threaded end of the adapter by a 1/8" or so. Both senders secure well enough to the pipe thread of the adapter. I used RTV when I was assembling them and simply used the short square peg drive that came with the VDO sender. Works great.

BTW, I was not able to get the yellow wire trick to work reliably... Accurate speeds below 30-40 MPH, but would never read over 40 no matter how fast I went. Needle bounced al the time as well.

[scoloco]

I still have the yellow wire hooked up. Needle appears steady at highway speeds (but its a bit slow right now - pulses thing in the vdo set at 5010 if I remember). On the trail (when I'm not paying attention) its still up and down whenever it feels like it.
I have the old speedo cable (its buggered) that I could cut and adapt. Still have the hall effect converter box somewhere. The speedo shop I called wanted ~$80 to fix my speedo cable .... needless to say I've not done it yet. Erics method of hooking the hall effect directly to the vss looks interesting... might try that next time I feel motivated.

[Hans]

I knew there had to be one somewhere, and I think I may have found an easy to fit speedometer transducer. A british company called Metron Transducers has a heck of a selection of different fittings on their speedometer transducers, and they are adjustable in the number of pulses per rotation from 1 to 8.
They are 3-wire hall-effect transducers, and appear to meet the requirements for the programmable VDO speedometer pretty closely.

The great part though is that it looks as if they will also plug directly into the existing speedometer cable, no modifications required. They even list a number of LR vehicles, including Discoveries and Defenders. It appears that the models 373/374/375/384 are possibly what we are looking for depending on how you want to mount it. The 384 looks to be the best option, just click it onto the cable inside the dash and wire it to the speedometer.

Now, I just need to yank apart my dashboard again and compare the connector to make sure we are in-fact using the "Eurosnap" connector with 3.1mm drive. That, and I need to find out the prices.

-Hans

[stevewhitaker]

Thanks Hans. Keep us posted. I'm getting a little tired of my bouncy-needled, poorly illuminated, stock speedometer.

[Backstay]

I'd be in for one if you want to order a few.


-John

[Hans]

First couple e-mails to them bounced. Will try again monday from a different e-mail address.

-Hans

[Backstay]

Any news?

[Stmpede]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the purpose of this? Is this just to allow you to install a different speedo, or does it allow you to calibrate the orig. speedo for larger tires? I am planning to put larger tires on my 110 and would like to know how to adjust the speedo for this if possible.

Thanks guys

[Hans]

No, this would be to allow a different speedo.

I haven't heard back yet.

-Hans

[TDI Guy]

YOu can use a stock disco sender and wire it right to a VDO gauge...

Is there anyone making a better speedo to fit in a Series?

[Hans]

But doesn't using the stock Disco sender make you have to remove the existing VSS sensor, and thus throw trouble codes all the time?

-Hans

[Hans]

Well, I tried the Autometer gauge, which supposedly has a CPU output lead. Gauge works fine with the existing VSS sensor, but the output is no good for the engine computer. So back to this idea again.

Metron never responded to me after multiple attempts. However, I did find another source for their transducers which is located in the Netherlands. Going to give them a try. www.tachographparts.com

A lot more information on their website, with a few possible options. Either get the drop-in transducer. They also sell the tools and parts needed to convert existing speedo cables to more readily available types.

-Han

[Stmpede]

Can't you just split the VSS output and send it to both? Why send the signal to the computer via the gauge anyway?

[ECR]

I think I have the answer to this... think.

We don't use it for VDO speedos, but we make an adapter that mates to the 1993-1995 EFI factory speed sensor (that box run by a short speedo cable on the LH frame rail) and then uses the late model 110/Disco speed sensor on the other end.

We use this in a different way. We use it to be able to run a 14CUX EFI system and update the entire dash to the 2006 spec stuff (newer non cable speed) on our restorations of 110s, but this should solve the problem you guys are having with th VDO. It will keep the factory EFI speed transducer for the 14CUX and give you a signal for the VDO.

[Hans]

I don't believe it will work to just split the signal wire, the issue I have with the Autometer stuff is that you have to re-wire the VSS totally. I had hoped the output in the gauge would drive the EFI computer, but it doesn't. The speedometer looks for a switched ground, the ECU looks for a switched postive feed. So in my case, I can't run both from one sensor.

I'm also finding that the existing VSS sensor in the hot-wire system isn't so great either. Fine when it's cold, but after the truck gets warmed up the accuracy turns to crap. The 3-wire hall-effect sensors are much more accurate than the reed style 2-wires. The ECU only needs it to see if the vehicle is moving or not, to open the throttle stepper a bit to prevent stalling as the engine idles while you slow down.

Mike, your idea sounds almost like what I am trying to do with the metron transducer. The only difference being that you wouldn't need an adapter, you just snap this one in where the speedometer disconnects and use the existing drive cable. The other option I am pursuing is just changing the end of the existing cable to accept a standard GM threaded sensor, but I am having trouble finding places to find the parts and crimper. That newest link does sell them, but I have to check a few things first.

[Gkase]

Hans,
please keep us posted on progress...very interested
George

[Hans]

Never did get anybody from Metron or any distributors to respond to me. But I did finally dig up a pricing list.... just under 300 Euro's for the transducer. So it's a dead end concept I think.

Going to measure up and make myself a cable to just use a standard GM threaded part I think. Much cheaper and more readily available. Once I get that settled, I'll start another thread on how-to.

-Hans

[Hans]

Well, I think I finally found the ultimate simple solution for replacing the stock mechanical speedo with an electronic one. All easy to get, drop-in, inexpensive parts. Ordering the parts now to try it.

It's so absurdly simple too.

Speedometer cable from an early 80's Jeep CJ-7. and ANY generic GM style speedometer sender of your choice. That's it. 4wd.com has the speedo cable for $9

I have the cable already from my CJ-7 in good shape, ordering the speedo sender tonight to test it.

-Hans

[Hans]

Success! In fact, this way is just stupid-easy to do. All the parts fit right where you need them, no modifications or re-wiring of existing stuff needed. Allows you to keep the factory speed sensor, which means no check-engine lights. Took me longer to pop the sealing grommet into place than it took to run the cable.

Just for a quickie parts list.

Speedometer cable from any Jeep CJ-7.
Electronic speedometer of your choice. I used an Auto-Meter cobalt, needed some fitting as it's smaller than the stock 4" size.
The following Speedo senders will work here.
Autometer #5291
VDO 340-012
Or any other sender that is a pass-thru style, or has the MALE 3/4" threading on it.

1. Remove the factory speedometer and UPPER speedometer cable.
2. Install Jeep speedometer cable, smaller threaded side goes underneath into the existing rover speed sensor. Large threaded side goes up behind the dashboard. You'll need to feed it through from the dashboard first, and then down to the transmission area. Only the small threaded end will fit through the dash hole. Make sure to get the inner cable seated into the rover speed sensor properly while you're down there. Also, the JEEP cable is longer, so make sure it gets routed away from the exhaust, you've got the extra length to do it. The original factory cable is shorter and gets pretty close to the manifolds.
3. Install new speedometer sender behind the dashboard, onto the new cable.
4. To get the firewall sealing grommet to fit in, I found it easier to go under the hood and remove the 4 screws on the black rubber panel that the cable feeds through. Gives you access to both sides.
5. Install, wire and calibrate the new speedo as per the instructions that came with it.

Seriously guys, it took me longer to write this post than it did to do the work. It's a cheap, easy and clean install and lets you run any electronic speedometer you want to.

-Hans

[cgalpin]

Sweet. I'll have to try this on my 110. I'm assuming the speed sensor is optional and as long as the cj-7 speedo cable is long enough it will work on that too. I'm guessing about $200 for a VDO gauge and sender, and a cj-7 speedo cable.

charles

[Hans]

Hmmmm, your 110 is an '84? Is it even fuel injected? The bottom-end may be different there, haven't crawled around any of the carbureted or older "Flapper" style EFI trucks.

For the NAS defenders, which is what I was figuring out, I keep the original speed sensor for the computer and add another one for the speedometer. But for everything, should run about $200 like you said to change from the mechanical speedo to a VDO Vision. Just make sure to use the through-drive speed sensor 340-012. The normal one they say to use, 340-011, will NOT fit using my method.

[cgalpin]

Yeah it has a carb. I'm really not sure what setup it has, but the speedo is shot (and my D90's is fine) :). And this setup is half the price of a stock speedo at rovers north.

[Hans]

Yeah, good point. It all depends on what the threading is on the output from the transfer case. May work just fine still.

-Hans