Sea Foam

[kellymoe]

After reading about this stuff on several forums, Land Rover and other. I think I am going to try it. I will let you know what happens. I will try it on the 130 3.5 V8 twin carb and my 94 Disco with 140k miles on it. It's supposed to smoke alot, I'll see if I can attract the local fire dept. when I do it. Has anyone tried this stuff? From the sounds of other people that have used it it sounds like magic. I have been unable to find any bad press on it. Maybe I'm not lookin hard enough.

[Burke]

What is it?

[kellymoe]

It,s an engine flush/ oil additive/ gas additive. I had never heard of the stuff until a few days ago. Then saw it mentioned on the Disco web. From what I have read people who use it love it and swear by it. Especially good for erratic idle problems. I did alot of research on it to see what others have said about it. Can't find anything negative. The only negative feed press I found was from people who had not heard of it or had not used it, they where skeptical of it's claims. Do a Google on Sea Foam motor or engine. Lots of info on it. I have not used it yet. I am planning on getting some today and using it tonight. Thought it might be wise to do it under cover of darkness as it is supposed to put out alot of smoke.
The stuff has been around for years and is big in the agriculture equipment and marine circles.

I'll be the guinea pig.

[jkatka]

One thing you may want to do is disconnect the exhast before the cats. I have heard that this stuff will foul O2 sensors. Also if you are running it through the engine as a foam detach the MAF as it may harm that also.

Jeremy

[kellymoe]

I'll try it through my 130 first, no cats. If all goes well I'll try it on the Disco.

[kellymoe]

Found it at NAPA. $13 for two cans. Now I have to wait for cover of darkness to give it a shot.

[chrisvonc]

http://www.discoweb.org/discus/messages/27/46972.html?1080613986

[kellymoe]

It is done. I did the 130 first. 1/3 in the intake manifold through the power steering vacuum line. Immediate smoke out the tail pipe. 1/3 in the crank case and 1/3 in the fuel tank. Let it sit with the motor off for 10-15 minutes then went out and fumigated the neighborhood for Med Fly's. Smoked bad for 5 minutes.

Next came the Disco. Poured it through the vacuum line between the firewall and the plenum. This caused little smoke but did cause it to idle irratic and stall. Let sit for 10 minutes. Far less smoke with the Disco. BTW put the rest in crank case and fuel tank.

Impressions?

130= Better throttle response and a little better power.

Disco= Much better idle. Used to have erratic idle, now it is dead steady. Much smoother get up and go. we'll see if it lasts.

Overall there is a noticeable difference in performance. Both engines are old and a little tired so that probably contributed to the positive results. Better than any other engine additive I have ever used. Not bad for $6 a can.

[chrisvonc]

Thread moved to Tech

[dbwitt]

Used it a few times on my 99 Disco and 95 Defender. Never had any problems with it. My Disco I believe is suffering from the unset of sticky exhaust valves. Seafoam, I have been told will slow down the problem. So far so good.

[Abrooks]

Used it in the 90, the (very neglected) 89 RRC and the roommate's '96 disco that had valve noise. Made little difference in my 90, made a LOT of difference in the RRC, and the '96 disco that needed head work doesn't need head work anymore. Well worth pissing the neighbors off.

[landy]

used it in my 97 d90 st gas only, runs great my truck only has 55k on it -- my brother used in a subaru outback and has had front engine oil leaks dont know if it effected the seals??

[130Tdi]

Holy ancient thread !
I have used sea foam quite a bit on my 115 Yamaha 2 stroke out board on the Montauk. Always seems to clear the gelled fuel out of the carb bowls.

[dchapman]

A lot of new studies on Seafoam and BG244K going on. It all has to do with Ethanol. These chemicals are basically powerless against Ethanol and the build-ups they produce.

I still use Seafoam about twice a year, though. Amazing how it calms an engine down and smooths it out.

[jefhuf]

So do you guys use Seafoam as a proactive maintenance or typically wait until symptoms arise? Other than smoothing out the idle does it seem to have any other significant benefits? I have seen this stuff on the shelf for years but never really bothered to pick up a can and read it much less use it

[rrc.swb]

So do you guys use Seafoam as a proactive maintenance or typically wait until symptoms arise?It will depend on who you ask. It should be used as a proactive additive. Besides, if you are running synthetic and doing it on a regular basis, you should be fine... Also, Today ALL gasoline have detergents in them. It's just to keep the engine cleaner and of course meet EPA guide lines. http://www.epa.gov/oms/fuels.htm

Other than smoothing out the idle does it seem to have any other significant benefits?It designed to clean the engine.

I have seen this stuff on the shelf for years but never really bothered to pick up a can and read it much less use itWait for them to be on sale :cool:

I've used this back in the day, when I had the off-board engines and helped with moisture and gunk.

[97-D90-736]

I have been a fan of this stuff for a long time. It is worthy to note that if you run it through the crank case, you should change the oil shortly there after as it will break it down.

It has never happened to me, but I do know of cat problems because they get so hot from buning up all the carbon.

And it is fun as hell to piss the neighbors off with this stuff.

[MERLEANDSARAH]

Doug, you own a Whaler? We have a 15 foot Dauntless. Who said Rover owners have bad taste?

[rrc.swb]

Doug, you own a Whaler? We have a 15 foot Dauntless. Who said Rover owners have bad taste?I had a 15' foot Whaler with a 90 HP Yamaha motor... the fun/scariest ride ever... :cool:

[130Tdi]

Doug, you own a Whaler? We have a 15 foot Dauntless. Who said Rover owners have bad taste?


Yeah I have a 17 Montauk with an Atlantic Towers t-top, with a 115 Yammy its scary fast. 1.7 liters of 2 stroke with big side draft carbs. Big boat is a 31 Bertram Sportfish with twin 300 hp diesels, fighting chair, outriggers etc. with 400nm range.

The Sea Foam is great for cleaning carbs on seldom run small engines. I have been very surprised how it "brings them back".

[hillstrubl]

how do we feel about using this on a diesel?
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html - they say it can be done

[Mpigapicha]

how do we feel about using this on a diesel?
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html - they say it can be done


I've used it on my VW diesel and instantly have better mpg........

[specops1526]

I have been a fan of this stuff for a long time. It is worthy to note that if you run it through the crank case, you should change the oil shortly there after as it will break it down.

It has never happened to me, but I do know of cat problems because they get so hot from buning up all the carbon.

And it is fun as hell to piss the neighbors off with this stuff.

Yeah, a lot of people do it right before an oil change.

When I used to drive a crown vic interceptor, just before an oil change, I would pour some in a cup, stick the pcv valve tube in it and have it sucked up until the engine stalled out. I'd let it sit for 30 mins and then take it for a quick drive around the block. I would floor it down the street and watch the area fill up with a massive thick cloud of smoke. I'd be laughing my ass off with tears in my eyes. The stuff works good. I put it in the gas of all my Rovers every few months.

[kevkon]

It's just Naptha and Isopropanol with a little light oil mixed in.

[hillstrubl]

Whats the easiest location to pour (or as specops said, have it sucked) into the crankcase?
I'd like to not have to remove a ton of lines, etc.

[tjfslaughter]

Whats the easiest location to pour (or as specops said, have it sucked) into the crankcase?
I'd like to not have to remove a ton of lines, etc.


http://www.seafoamsales.com/diesel-engine-faqs.html

Looks like you just dump it into the Fuel filter and the crank case...

------ Follow up post added May 16th, 2011 01:54 PM ------

I wonder how much smoke would come out of a diesel.....

[o2batsea]

Pure snake oil, guaranteed to do nothing but burn up in the combustion chamber. Market is full of this kind of stuff and it makes the vendors lots of money. I remember this stuff called STP that you put in the engine oil. I don't think it did anything but make Andy Granatelli into a wealthy man.

[grnthng]

Pure snake oil, guaranteed to do nothing but burn up in the combustion chamber. Market is full of this kind of stuff and it makes the vendors lots of money. I remember this stuff called STP that you put in the engine oil. I don't think it did anything but make Andy Granatelli into a wealthy man.

I will totally disagree....proof is in the pudding!
Good example... everybody has this problem, the first time you try to start your lawnmowers and small motors or motorcycles or whatever evry spring.... what goes wrong????
Hard starting...sputtering miisfireing etc....
Ever since I have used this in combonation with some Chevron Techron in any motor I own i have not had one start up issue!
Especially the motrs that sit for long periods! Before that I would have to pay someone to clean up the gumming in the mower motor..... no more!
My 1988 M6 sat for over a year... no garage,under a cover with a battery tender plugged to it, when I went to start it.. no smoke, no rough idle, no misfiring!

Btw, this product is not STP...that would be like comparing Waxoyl to cheap undercoating that dries up and cracks to let the moisture in!!

Its aspirin for motors!!

I have always poured 1 bottle to 1 full tank, just before long trips especially!

[hillstrubl]

http://www.seafoamsales.com/diesel-engine-faqs.html

Looks like you just dump it into the Fuel filter and the crank case...

------ Follow up post added May 16th, 2011 01:54 PM ------

I wonder how much smoke would come out of a diesel.....

no liquids or sprays should be used through the air intake system of a Diesel engine including cleaners and starting fluids. If this is done to a Diesel engine it can cause major engine damage including Hydro-Lock or uncontrolled engine acceleration known as “RUN AWAY”.

Yeah that's why I was asking. Looks like the fuel filter it is. Thanks.

[tjfslaughter]

Let me know. I am interested to see if this works.. Injectors are really F-N expensive..

[o2batsea]

I will totally disagree....proof is in the pudding!
Good example... everybody has this problem, the first time you try to start your lawnmowers and small motors or motorcycles or whatever evry spring.... what goes wrong????
Hard starting...sputtering miisfireing etc....
Ever since I have used this in combonation with some Chevron Techron in any motor I own i have not had one start up issue!
Especially the motrs that sit for long periods! Before that I would have to pay someone to clean up the gumming in the mower motor..... no more!
My 1988 M6 sat for over a year... no garage,under a cover with a battery tender plugged to it, when I went to start it.. no smoke, no rough idle, no misfiring!

Btw, this product is not STP...that would be like comparing Waxoyl to cheap undercoating that dries up and cracks to let the moisture in!!

Its aspirin for motors!!

I have always poured 1 bottle to 1 full tank, just before long trips especially!

I didn't think I would be able to convince the hard core believers. Buy it, love it, pour it all over yourself...don't care really.

[dchapman]

Use this stuff with every oil change. Love it.

I pull the vacuum line off the valve cover on the drivers side that runs back up and into the plenum. Don't just dunk the hose into the can; just allow it to sip the Sea Foam until it's 1/3rd gone. I then dump a 1/3rd in to the crank case via the oil cap, and a 1/3 into the gas tank.

Once I've sucked a 1/3rd into the plenum, I kill the engine for about 5 minutes. On re-start it smokes like crazy the first time you do it. But if you do this regularly, it does not smoke so bad. Once the stuff is burned out, you'll really hear, and feel, a difference in your engine. It idles so much smoother.

I like to run the truck at operating temp for about 30 minutes and then change the oil.

I replaced my valve cover gaskets at 120,000 miles. I've been doing this treatment every 3000 to 4000 since 90,000. At 120,000 the inside of my valve covers were amazingly clean. No black gunk, very little tarnish, etc.. Blame it on the Rotella-T or the Sea Foam, does not matter....I'll just keep doing what I've been doing.

[ini88]

Yup that stuff is good. smoothed out my idle a bit the first time I used it on the Defender

I put Rotella in the RRC because it was filled with gunk from the previous owners neglect. I think lots of Rotella changes and seafoam and it should clean the engine out nice. Rotella is full of detergents for those oh so dirty, slutty diesel engines :)

[kevkon]

You could save yourself some money by just getting Seafoams main ingredient; Naptha.
It's just a solvent.
Another thing, having smoke upon start up after a period of storage is not a bad thing. It shows that oil has been in the upper galleries and cylinder. No smoke can mean that there's no oil present and you have a dry start.

[sonoronos]

Or clean the injectors yourself using a 170W sonicator off Amazon. (bio speak for an ultrasonic cleaner.)

I'm not convinced of the effectiveness of "injector cleaner" that you use through the fuel system, at least not in cleaning up old/fouled injectors. I remember my little brother sonicating gas injectors in a bath of Kerosene and what came out of those injectors (about 10 years old) was pretty nasty!

[jefhuf]

just put a bottle in my truck two weeks ago before an oil change as Dan described...I'm always skeptical of these types of products but the truck does seem to have smoothed out some.

[dchapman]

I don't know how much Seafom cleans the injectors, if it even does. It may free up some sticky deposits from old fuel sitting stagnate in the fuel system, but if you drive your truck regularly this is probably not an issue anyway. It's a bigger deal in motors on lawn mowers or weed eaters that sit for months without running.

But what Seafoam will do it get rid of the moisture in your fuel tank and fuel system. Moisture in fuel is a big issue these days. Even last winter my sister's car stalled about a mile from her home. She had it towed to a garage, and long story short the gas line was frozen solid. They left it in the garage for a few hours, got the car running, and then used Seafoam as a gas treatment to get rid of the moisture. Car ran fine ever since.

Take a look under your oil cap and see if you have any water droplets, or a white sludge, under the cap. That's moisture. Try some Seafoam.

[kevkon]

I don't know how much Seafom cleans the injectors, if it even does. It may free up some sticky deposits from old fuel sitting stagnate in the fuel system, but if you drive your truck regularly this is probably not an issue anyway. It's a bigger deal in motors on lawn mowers or weed eaters that sit for months without running.

But what Seafoam will do it get rid of the moisture in your fuel tank and fuel system. Moisture in fuel is a big issue these days. Even last winter my sister's car stalled about a mile from her home. She had it towed to a garage, and long story short the gas line was frozen solid. They left it in the garage for a few hours, got the car running, and then used Seafoam as a gas treatment to get rid of the moisture. Car ran fine ever since.

Take a look under your oil cap and see if you have any water droplets, or a white sludge, under the cap. That's moisture. Try some Seafoam.

Hence the isopropyl alcohol in Seafoam. It doesn't really get rid of moisture, it just keeps it in suspension and allows it to become combustible.
There is no magic additive out there, snake oils included.

[cellulararrest]

I thought the ethanol in gas alleviated the majority of that problem?

[grnthng]

I didn't think I would be able to convince the hard core believers. Buy it, love it, pour it all over yourself...don't care really.

Yeah!..... I substitute a shot of brandy with Seafoam whilst sipping my expresso everynight!!!

------ Follow up post added May 17th, 2011 09:36 AM ------

You oil burning dudes can also fill your fuel filter with kerosene at your pm's and also use the Lucas fuel injector cleaner/upper cyl. lubricator.....can also be usd with petrol motors ( the Lucas inj. clnr. not the kerosene ) its also good stuff!

[kevkon]

The best thing us oil burning dudes can do is use quality fuel from a quality source. If you do there is far less likelyhood of water and contaminents in the fuel and the better highway fuels already contain additives.
As for the lubrication additives, if you ever get the chance to observe what a lot of these do in an engine while it's running, I think you will leave them on the shelf.

[cdb]

Have you had that chance and what did you see?

[Hammertime]

OK how many of you have put this in with your cats on ?

[dchapman]

OK how many of you have put this in with your cats on ?

I have on every truck. Even the lr3.

Didn't land rover recommend a BG product every so many miles?

[kevkon]

Have you had that chance and what did you see?

Yes I have and it's interesting. One caused major foaming which has a huge impact on the lubrication system. I think most of the additves out there contain PTFE ( teflon) which is all fine and well except that is a solid at lower temps and so it gets into the oil pump screen.
Bottom line is that all the major reputable oil mfgs have products with a mix designed into them. Start adding aftermarket additves and you upset that balance.

[grnthng]

The best thing us oil burning dudes can do is use quality fuel from a quality source. If you do there is far less likelyhood of water and contaminents in the fuel and the better highway fuels already contain additives.
As for the lubrication additives, if you ever get the chance to observe what a lot of these do in an engine while it's running, I think you will leave them on the shelf.

I understand what your saying... I trust both Seafoam and Lucas products, bottom line is that these products are expensive so it does come down to cost!
As far as additives in reputable brand fuels are concerned, this only applies to northern states in the winter months. I am in trucking and when I was an owner/operater spending $600.00 every time I topped my tanks.... I just didn't feel like spending another $20.00 on a gl. of Lucas fuel injector/clnr.
Only in extreme temps is when you don't take any chances with jelling, so that's when I would add these products.
But most important are the oil & filters... I put on over 1.3 million miles between 2 trucks in 13 yrs and never broke down due to maintenance!

Key note: There is water in the form of condensation in every storage tank, in every fuel station, in every state...keep that in mind!

[dchapman]

I call bullshit, Kevin.

For one, this thread and subject is about Seafom, and Seafoam does not contain Teflon. Everyone is talking about Seafom. They're not talking about Marvels Mystery Oil, Slick-50, or STP Engine Oil Treatment. They're talking about Seafom and Seafom does not contain Teflon.

Seafom has been around a long time. 50 years or more? It's not new and no one claims it's some top secret NASA miracle-in-a-can holy water. It's merely a product designed to clean your engine and related components. Seafom has been used by Millions of people, many who are repeat customers. People use this product in gas engines, diesel engines, ATV's, motorcycles, automobiles, RV's, etc.. Seafoam gets used a lot. On just about every single car forum on the Internet there is a topic about using Seafom and there are only two types of people talking about it, 1) the people who use it; and 2) the people who don't use it and talk about how they would never use it. But we're missing the third category; the people who have used Seafom and fucked up their engine. If Seafoam was such a disaster it would seem to me that the third category would be the most vocal.

Now I'm not saying Seafoam has never caused engine problems. I could see how sucking too much Seafoam into the intake too fast could hydro-lock the engine; or using Seafoam in the crankcase for an extended amount of time could clog oil journals due to the trash Seafoam breaks loose from the inside. But this does not seem to be a big issue.

It also does not seem to be a big issue that Seafoam causes any problems at all.

Some claim that if you use a "quality" motor oil then you will not have to worry about deposits inside your engine. Well that's just bullshit. I don't care if you're running some no-name oil from the Quick Mart or Red Line Synthetic, at some point you're going to get deposits. This is why it's important to change your oil every 3,000 miles. I don't care what it says in your manual or on the motor oil can, if you're going 7,500 miles between oil changes you're an idiot no matter what kind of oil you're using. Changing your oil every 3,000 miles helps to keep your engine clean, and a clean engine is a happy engine.

You have to think about what causes engine wear. What causes the bearings inside your engine to get loose or just wear out? Bearings are designed to wear faster than your crank or cam, obviously. As the bearings wear they shed particles of metal. This metal is abrasive. Bearings wear out faster when abrasives rub across them; it's like sandpaper. They claim synthetic oils reduce friction thus reducing the amount of wear inside an engine thus you can go longer between oil changes. This may be true, but I'm not getting out my microscope every 1,000 miles to check and see what's floating in my engine oil and determining if I'm still within spec and if I can go another 1,000 miles before changing the oil. I cannot see with my eyes that synthetic motor oils do a better job than dyno oil.

Nevertheless, black oil is dirty oil. When your oil is black it's past time to change your oil.

When I take a shit I wipe my ass. If I see shit on the toilet paper that means my ass is not clean enough to pull my pants up yet and that I need to give it another shot. Sometime I use a lot of toilet paper, other times not so much. It depends on what I eat. But no matter how much toilet paper I use I still need to use a little soap and water, or some sort of cleaning agent, to get the stink off my ass.

In my D1 I use Rotella-T motor oil. I don't know of another motor oil out there that has as much detergent in it as Rotella-T. Because of the detergent in Rotella-T, this oil helps to keep the inside of your engine clean. I'm not saying Rotella-T is the best oil on the market or that it's the best oil for the aluminum Rover engines, but Rotella-T is a good motor oil that I have used extensively since I got my drivers license almost 20 years ago. I believe Rotella-T to be a quality motor oil.

Despite all the detergents in Rotella-T motor oil, and despite changing my motor oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles with a new quality oversize oil filter.... after adding Seafoam to my crankcase prior to an oil change my motor oil will go from dark brown to black within 30 minutes.

I don't know what Seafoam is breaking loose inside my engine to turn the motor oil black. All I know if that motor oil is not supposed to be black. Clean motor oil is brown. If my motor oil is turning black after introducing Seafoam, to me that means something inside my engine is dirty and just plain motor oil, despite what additives might be in it, is not cutting it. I want the inside on my engine clean and I don't want metal particles or dirt floating in my oil and Seafoam seems to do a good job at breaking those particles loose so it can be flushed out. I can see that Seafoam is working with my own eyes.

When I add Seafoam to my plenum, I can hear with my own ears that the engine is running smoother, and I can visually see that the engine is not shaking and vibrating the way it was prior to the Seafoam treatment. I don't know what Seafoam is doing inside my engine. All I know is that after a treatment I can see, feel, and hear a difference in my engine.

If my oil pump was sucking "foam", or if solids were getting into my oil pump screen, I would hear this, too, as the engine would start to tick, knock, bang, or lock up. This does not happen with Seafoam.

I don't know what Seafoam does inside my gas tank. All I know is I've never had an issue with water contamination or had fuel injector problems. I've never had poor fuel economy (no worse than whats expected) or pinging as a result. I work 2/10ths of a mile from home and have multiple vehicles, so I'd say gasoline sits in my fuel tank(s) a lot longer than the average person. But I've never had a fueling problem. I can't say that Seafoam is the reason for this because I don't know that for sure. But Seafoam does not seem to be hurting anything, either.

The bottom line is I can physically see Seafoam working. I can hear Seafoam working. And Millions of people like me have been using Seafoam for 50+ years with no ill effects.

[tjfslaughter]

When I take a shit I wipe my ass. If I see shit on the toilet paper that means my ass is not clean enough to pull my pants up yet and that I need to give it another shot. Sometime I use a lot of toilet paper, other times not so much. It depends on what I eat. But no matter how much toilet paper I use I still need to use a little soap and water, or some sort of cleaning agent, to get the stink off my ass.




A combination of metamucil, seafoam and babywipes will fix this.

[dchapman]

Do babywipes cause foaming?

[tjfslaughter]

no but it sure helps remove the deposits.

[grnthng]

Great!!! Everytime I do a service on one of my cars now, some guy taking a dump is going to come to mind!

Daniel.... you better trademark that paragraph before Seafoam decides to use it in their marketing, and you'll be out of some $$$!!

[TS888]

My impression is Seafoam made my RRC run better. But mostly I like the smoke.

[kevkon]

I call bullshit, Kevin.

For one, this thread and subject is about Seafom, and Seafoam does not contain Teflon. Everyone is talking about Seafom. They're not talking about Marvels Mystery Oil, Slick-50, or STP Engine Oil Treatment. They're talking about Seafom and Seafom does not contain Teflon.

Seafom has been around a long time. 50 years or more? It's not new and no one claims it's some top secret NASA miracle-in-a-can holy water. It's merely a product designed to clean your engine and related components. Seafom has been used by Millions of people, many who are repeat customers. People use this product in gas engines, diesel engines, ATV's, motorcycles, automobiles, RV's, etc.. Seafoam gets used a lot. On just about every single car forum on the Internet there is a topic about using Seafom and there are only two types of people talking about it, 1) the people who use it; and 2) the people who don't use it and talk about how they would never use it. But we're missing the third category; the people who have used Seafom and fucked up their engine. If Seafoam was such a disaster it would seem to me that the third category would be the most vocal.

Now I'm not saying Seafoam has never caused engine problems. I could see how sucking too much Seafoam into the intake too fast could hydro-lock the engine; or using Seafoam in the crankcase for an extended amount of time could clog oil journals due to the trash Seafoam breaks loose from the inside. But this does not seem to be a big issue.

It also does not seem to be a big issue that Seafoam causes any problems at all.

Some claim that if you use a "quality" motor oil then you will not have to worry about deposits inside your engine. Well that's just bullshit. I don't care if you're running some no-name oil from the Quick Mart or Red Line Synthetic, at some point you're going to get deposits. This is why it's important to change your oil every 3,000 miles. I don't care what it says in your manual or on the motor oil can, if you're going 7,500 miles between oil changes you're an idiot no matter what kind of oil you're using. Changing your oil every 3,000 miles helps to keep your engine clean, and a clean engine is a happy engine.

You have to think about what causes engine wear. What causes the bearings inside your engine to get loose or just wear out? Bearings are designed to wear faster than your crank or cam, obviously. As the bearings wear they shed particles of metal. This metal is abrasive. Bearings wear out faster when abrasives rub across them; it's like sandpaper. They claim synthetic oils reduce friction thus reducing the amount of wear inside an engine thus you can go longer between oil changes. This may be true, but I'm not getting out my microscope every 1,000 miles to check and see what's floating in my engine oil and determining if I'm still within spec and if I can go another 1,000 miles before changing the oil. I cannot see with my eyes that synthetic motor oils do a better job than dyno oil.

Nevertheless, black oil is dirty oil. When your oil is black it's past time to change your oil.

When I take a shit I wipe my ass. If I see shit on the toilet paper that means my ass is not clean enough to pull my pants up yet and that I need to give it another shot. Sometime I use a lot of toilet paper, other times not so much. It depends on what I eat. But no matter how much toilet paper I use I still need to use a little soap and water, or some sort of cleaning agent, to get the stink off my ass.

In my D1 I use Rotella-T motor oil. I don't know of another motor oil out there that has as much detergent in it as Rotella-T. Because of the detergent in Rotella-T, this oil helps to keep the inside of your engine clean. I'm not saying Rotella-T is the best oil on the market or that it's the best oil for the aluminum Rover engines, but Rotella-T is a good motor oil that I have used extensively since I got my drivers license almost 20 years ago. I believe Rotella-T to be a quality motor oil.

Despite all the detergents in Rotella-T motor oil, and despite changing my motor oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles with a new quality oversize oil filter.... after adding Seafoam to my crankcase prior to an oil change my motor oil will go from dark brown to black within 30 minutes.

I don't know what Seafoam is breaking loose inside my engine to turn the motor oil black. All I know if that motor oil is not supposed to be black. Clean motor oil is brown. If my motor oil is turning black after introducing Seafoam, to me that means something inside my engine is dirty and just plain motor oil, despite what additives might be in it, is not cutting it. I want the inside on my engine clean and I don't want metal particles or dirt floating in my oil and Seafoam seems to do a good job at breaking those particles loose so it can be flushed out. I can see that Seafoam is working with my own eyes.

When I add Seafoam to my plenum, I can hear with my own ears that the engine is running smoother, and I can visually see that the engine is not shaking and vibrating the way it was prior to the Seafoam treatment. I don't know what Seafoam is doing inside my engine. All I know is that after a treatment I can see, feel, and hear a difference in my engine.

If my oil pump was sucking "foam", or if solids were getting into my oil pump screen, I would hear this, too, as the engine would start to tick, knock, bang, or lock up. This does not happen with Seafoam.

I don't know what Seafoam does inside my gas tank. All I know is I've never had an issue with water contamination or had fuel injector problems. I've never had poor fuel economy (no worse than whats expected) or pinging as a result. I work 2/10ths of a mile from home and have multiple vehicles, so I'd say gasoline sits in my fuel tank(s) a lot longer than the average person. But I've never had a fueling problem. I can't say that Seafoam is the reason for this because I don't know that for sure. But Seafoam does not seem to be hurting anything, either.

The bottom line is I can physically see Seafoam working. I can hear Seafoam working. And Millions of people like me have been using Seafoam for 50+ years with no ill effects.

I'm sorry if the thread got away from SeaFoam, the question was asked regarding oil additives and I responded. If you like adding things to your fuel, oil, or whatever so be it. Seafoam is simply naptha, alchohol and light oil. I never said it contained teflon, that's an unfortunate ingredient of the oil additives.
For the record, there is no miracle additive. Anything you do buy and put through your system may have benefits and potential pitfalls as well. But one thing is certain, none of them are a scientific miracle. So look at the ingredients, if none are given watch out.
The worst part about all of these additives is similar to that found in the finishing and protection products, confusion. Manufacturers love to promote their products as if they have some miraculous ingredient that repels, protects, is industructable, gives increaed performance, so on and so forth.
Just take a look at the actual contents.

[dchapman]

It does not matter what is in it. It could be ant piss for all I care. It might even be stuff each of us have on hand in our kitchen cabinet. That does not matter. What matters is it works and it's only 6-bucks.

[nwp]

First off, that's some funny shit, so thanks for the laugh. Secondly, you're exactly right, dchapman. Boat guys use this stuff in every tank with an occasional boost. If you don't then you are asking for trouble (at least according to about every boating forum and every boat engine mechanic I know or have read).

Anyone else looked into ethanol free gasoline in their area? I am lucky enough to have one right down the road and am just starting to use it. Here's a link I found to find these ethanol free stations:
http://pure-gas.org/

[crown14]

I run seafoam (in the tank, not the intake) every 6 months or so on my rovers and have never had a sticking exhaust valve or blown a head gasket.

------ Follow up post added May 18th, 2011 10:53 PM ------

BTW, buy it by the gallon, its a lot cheaper.

[rover4x4]

I run seafoam (in the tank, not the intake) every 6 months or so on my rovers and have never had a sticking exhaust valve or blown a head gasket.

------ Follow up post added May 18th, 2011 10:53 PM ------

BTW, buy it by the gallon, its a lot cheaper.

Im pretty sure thats not because of the seafoam.

[kevkon]

It does not matter what is in it. It could be ant piss for all I care. It might even be stuff each of us have on hand in our kitchen cabinet. That does not matter. What matters is it works and it's only 6-bucks.

That's fine.
I just hope you don't use the same logic when you go out for a drink :eek:

[grnthng]

Common guys... we can come to an agreement on something right!
Lets forget about this Seafoam and Daniel (dchappman) looking down everytime to check for deposits.... lets think of something else!

[grnthng]

Sorry, forgot to click on upload! Here we go.... ooooo, aaahhhh!

[Overlander]

Sorry, forgot to click on upload! Here we go.... ooooo, aaahhhh!

Thank you for making my day. That was "post-worthy".

On a side note, for TDI folks, I've learned alot about turbo and turbo health over last 6 months. Many turbo shops recommend not using additives in the oil as loosening particles is bad for turbos. Small particles that break free can clog the turbo oil inlet (very small port) and kill the turbo in short time.

That's also why they all recommend replacing the oil feed line, rather than cleaning it, when replacing a turbo. risk of particles is too great.

Not my advice, debate it all you want.

[achampagne]

I'm changing the oil in my disco this weekend , I think I'll buy a bottle and give it a try.

[kevkon]

Put in two, it should be twice as effective.

[hillstrubl]

just seafoamed the 90 and wifey's 30K VW GTI. Honestly didn't see much smoke with the 90 (changed fuel filter and filled new one with seafoam and a bit of ATF) but the petrol GTI... WHOA. Going for a drive now to see if it feels any different.

[norros]

A combination of metamucil, seafoam and babywipes will fix this.


This was hilarious.


Just wanted to say I've heard nothing but bad things about Seafoam and it's counterparts.

[rijosho]

I picked up a gallon of the Seafoam / Sea Foam stuff over the weekend for my truck, and some 2 cycle engines.

Here's the video of start-up of the truck after sucking in about 6 ounces of the Seafoam through the vacuum on the brake master, and letting it sit about 12 minutes. You can see my nice exhaust leak ala muffler hole under the truck. Yes, I did this at an old abandoned Verizon lot, as you don't want an unnecessary call made to the Fire Dept!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Ezu1P7BAM

[rover4x4]

any noticeable changes in the trucks behavior. I have always been on the fence about seafoam and have never used it. I will use techron prior to an oil change.

[ini88]

Thats not too bad Josh. Mine smoked like hell for about 30 minutes.

[rijosho]

Nothing great yet, but I've also read it'll drive like crap for a bit after applying the treatment. I usually idle around 6-800 RPMs, and after the treatment I was idling around 4-600 which is a little too low. Because of the intermittent lower idle I was getting the flickering oil pressure light, and then a Check Engine light after about 20 minutes of driving. I'll know more next weekend when I'm back at the car, and will report back with any continued issues after the application. Before the treatment I was already aware of the muffler hole (hopefully being replaced under warranty) and cats that need to be replaced once I get my new muffler, so some symptoms may be assoicated with that issue.

[waveridin1959]

Seafoam can foul up the plugs and/or O2 Sensors as well. I've run it through my truck on a couple different occasions with out problem.

[bjf]

What cats are you getting?

[rijosho]

I forget. I think Magnaflow 9914 or 9919 or something like that.

[bjf]

Is that with a y pipe or are you cutting?

[rijosho]

Was thinking about this too, since there's free shipping and I have a $100 gift certificate.

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/ESR3063.cfm

[bjf]

When I did mine, I just had the old cut out but if I did it again I would either go NRP or would get a shop to make me something with random cats like ECR uses

[rover4x4]

Do they test your trucks for emissions?

I have generally heard good things about using sea foam. I wouldn't think a vehicle that uses quality fuel sees high revs and regular maintenance would need sea foam

[323jamie]

wondering

[rijosho]

wondering

Wondering what.

Well, my truck is driving like a dream, but it's more likely because of the whole new exhaust system I had installed with new cats, and o2's, as one of the cats was bad.

[Reese_D90]

When I did mine, I just had the old cut out but if I did it again I would either go NRP or would get a shop to make me something with random cats like ECR uses

Trailhead 4X4 made a SS Y-pipe with random cats for me. I think random is what ECR uses.

[o2batsea]

When I did mine, I just had the old cut out but if I did it again I would either go NRP or would get a shop to make me something with random cats like ECR uses

FYI, the only thing stainless on the NRP y pipe is the tailpiece. This is welded to a mild steel connector flange. Quite disappointed with mine. 'sides their warranty is for schmidt. stay away.

[Suppatime]

One thing you may want to do is disconnect the exhast before the cats. I have heard that this stuff will foul O2 sensors. Also if you are running it through the engine as a foam detach the MAF as it may harm that also.

Jeremy

It does mess with O2 sensors. Other than that though, SeaFoam is a fantastic product.

I'd start off by running half a bottle through a full tank of gas. If your truck takes kindly to it, you can start sucking it into your head through vacuum lines. Do it slowly, until the engine stalls out on you. Then wait a few minutes, start it up, and say goodbye to all the gunk in your engine.

[aka rover]

I would be carefull what you add to the oil of an older or poorly maintained motor. I had a customer come into my shop with his new to him jeep cj8 scrambler and wanted me to reseal the intake and add some Snake Oil to his motor before doing an oil change on it. I opened up the oil filler cap saw some black crusty deposits and recomended him not do this, but he insisted.


We pulled his rig out the door he poured in 1quart per instuctions on can cant remember what brand but it was marvels or seafoam or??

We sat back on watched and listened as it ran we heard the lifter noise getting fainter and the motor was sounding good, could this be working I was thinking?

Then the motor started to get a faint knock! I instantly shut it down, the owner started it back up and let it run a few more minutes till the knock was fierce and hammering! I just watched in ahh at the site and sound of this dieing motor. The owner a good friend of mine to this day asked me to rebuild the motor. On tear down I had found that the wonder oil removed sludge and crude and clogged the oil pump screen and oil filter.

This was an extreme case im sure but that was 12 years ago and have been sceptical about this stuff ever sense. It seems to me some poorly maintained rover motors have a large amount of build up on top of the heads, My thought is leave it there or take motor apart and clean it up rather than send it through the bearings and lifters.

Just my .02

[rover4x4]

The snake oil did its job.

[Gore Ranger]

Hi guys,

I need some advice. My 1989 RRC failed its initial emissions test here in Denver. Previously I had it in the mountains and there is no emissions testing there. As some background, it has 100K miles and just had a tune-up, all new plugs, wires, etc. It passed the CO and and HC test but failed the NOx test. On the NOx test, it read 7.8116 and the limit is 5.0

Before the test, I drove it about 5 miles over to the place in city start and stop traffic. It got up to temp but I did not run it very hard. Additionally, it sat turned off in the bay waiting for the guy in front of me, and the air temperature today was only high 50's.

I am thinking of changing motor oil (the oil is Rotella T synthetic that's been in there for 6 months), running some BG44K through it, and running it really hard before the next test. Do you think this will lower the NOx? It said carbon buildup contributes to NOx so hopefully the BG44K will help that. Or do you think I should do the seafoam treatment?

Would you do the BG44K right before the test, a few days before? Also, before or after the oil change?Would you do BG44K in addition to SeaFoam? I have also heard HEAT or E85 in the tank would help. Any advice is much appreciated!

[leastonce]

Is your computer throwing any codes ... Like a faulty O2 sensor?

[Gore Ranger]

No codes, and the O2 sensors are only a few years old...At the same time a new NRP full exhaust system with new cats was installed. I do have the timing advanced a few degrees.

[rover4x4]

BG44k is good stuff. Clean the throttle body and emissions hoses run the Bg and a tank of Shell power, drive it like you stole it. Change the oil get it retested. Your catalytic converters wont function optimally until the truck has warmed all the way up.

[jhhorse]

I would try the seafoam, if you do, follow the instructions carefully, but i would advocate wait a bit longer before starting up and clearing the stuff out. I have a 95 D-90 here in Colorado and never had an issue with the E test.
I have used seafoam, it appeared to clean out alot of junk, did not bother the O2 sensors a bit.

[leastonce]

No codes, and the O2 sensors are only a few years old...At the same time a new NRP full exhaust system with new cats was installed. I do have the timing advanced a few degrees.

Put everything to standard settings ... You can always push it back once you have the paper. Also are all you emission control hoses on the engine in good condition?

[Gore Ranger]

I am leaning towards the BG44K before the Seafoam right now just because it is easier for me since I live in a condo building.

BG also has a product called Supercharge II which I might follow up with if I can get my hands on it.

I definitely made a mistake by not getting her really heated up.

I have heard mixed recommendations on the gas though: do I go with a high quality high octane tank like Shell or E85? Doesn't Ethanol in the tank help lower the NOx?

Yes, good idea, I need to reset timing and check hoses.

[leastonce]

I bet setting it back to standard and checking the hoses will sort it out ...

[sonoronos]

I need some advice. My 1989 RRC failed its initial emissions test here in Denver. Previously I had it in the mountains and there is no emissions testing there. As some background, it has 100K miles and just had a tune-up, all new plugs, wires, etc. It passed the CO and and HC test but failed the NOx test. On the NOx test, it read 7.8116 and the limit is 5.0

Did you disable your EGR, or is it broken?

Additives and the like that will not do anything.

Short of injecting urea into the exhaust, an EGR is the only mechanical way to get the NOx number down.

Ethanol can reduce NOx but you must run at least 50%. You can't just use an additive. You must put a full tank of E85 in there and give it a try. Your hydrocarbons number will go up, but NOx will go down. If that doesn't let you pass, then fix your EGR.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/emissions_e85.html

[rover4x4]

Do land Rovers have EGR valves?

[sonoronos]

:) :) :)

[Gore Ranger]

Did you disable your EGR, or is it broken?

Additives and the like that will not do anything.

Short of injecting urea into the exhaust, an EGR is the only mechanical way to get the NOx number down.

Ethanol can reduce NOx but you must run at least 50%. You can't just use an additive. You must put a full tank of E85 in there and give it a try. Your hydrocarbons number will go up, but NOx will go down. If that doesn't let you pass, then fix your EGR.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/emissions_e85.html

I don't think I want to mess with E85 after doing some research.

If additives like BG44K and Seafoam are supposed to clean carbon deposits and those deposits contribute to NoX emissions, then why do you think an additive like that will not do anything?

My exhaust system is totally stock and intact, with the exception of the aftermarket NRP pipe. All the emissions control stuff is still there. The EGR valve might be broken, but it is not disabled. I will look into that.

[dave_lucas]

What did you find that makes you want to avoid it?

[sonoronos]

If additives like BG44K and Seafoam are supposed to clean carbon deposits and those deposits contribute to NoX emissions, then why do you think an additive like that will not do anything?

It's just my opinion, but attempting to reduce your NOx emissions by 35% by cleaning carbon deposits using a can or two of solvent seems optimistic to me. Maybe if you removed the head and hot-tanked the valves, seats, and combustion chambers you might have a fighting chance.

It was probably wrong for me to say that they won't do anything. But if your goal is to pass NOx emissions, then I believe that their contribution towards that goal will not be sufficient.

[Rocky]

Chemically can someone explain to me how does loosening up solid deposits of Carbon reduce output of gaseous Nox?

[revtor]

All I know is that burning seafoam makes smoke. Burning anything other than gasoline makes smoke. What the seafoam actually does I don't know. Id like to pour some on an old gummed up carb or something and see how i does breaking up sludge/gunk..

[Gore Ranger]

It's just my opinion, but attempting to reduce your NOx emissions by 35% by cleaning carbon deposits using a can or two of solvent seems optimistic to me. Maybe if you removed the head and hot-tanked the valves, seats, and combustion chambers you might have a fighting chance.

It was probably wrong for me to say that they won't do anything. But if your goal is to pass NOx emissions, then I believe that their contribution towards that goal will not be sufficient.

I agree it is optimistic. I just don't know how much difference having the cats fully warmed up makes either. Like I said, the truck was warm at best. I am hoping that some solvents in concert with having the truck and cats hot might make a significant difference; that might be naive. The other thing I failed to mention is that when you fail the test you can go back within 10 days at no charge to retest. So, I figure I have nothing to lose. I already have arranged to have the truck taken to my Land Rover mechanic on Tuesday (plan to test it again myself Monday).

The funny thing is the first thing he suggested was seafoam!

I will make sure to report back on my findings on Monday on the test, round 2.