Swivel Ball Leak...

[norros]

Ok, so I got in there and did the brakes this weekend and while I was there I thought, why not go in and grease the bearings...
Well...
The RIGHT FRONT wheel bearing was full of a 'black muck' which seemed to be AMSOIL 90w mixing in with the grease in the bearings. So, my question is...

What do I do ???

Is there ONE particular seal that I need to buy ? Or, after looking through my parts manual I see that there is a SWIVEL PIN HOUSING - SEAL KIT Part No. STC3321 do I need to buy this ?

AND (most important) HOW hard is it to do ?

I also did the rear wheel bearings and the LEFT REAR bearing was in the same state as the front right... but I did not see a "KIT" and am wondering what I need to do and of course, how hard is it to accomplish ??

Any help is much appreciated, and I hear 'the man' is now Michael Green, so Michael if you're reading please help.

Thanks

Nicholas
1995 Defender 90 SW

[Mike Hippert]

For the fronts click here (http://www.d-90.com/tech/bearing.html) .

I did the rears a year ago, it takes about 2 hours per side if you clean and replace the bearings. The only extra tool I needed was the hub nut tool (kinda just a big socket). Call Rovers North and they should be able to tell you exactly what you need for parts.

[norros]

Michael,

I appreciate the response, I'm glad to know someone is out there.

But, my problem was with the SWIVEL BALLS leaking into the BEARINGS, not the bearings themselves. I have done the bearings a couple of times so I am familiar with the process.
My question had to do with 'how to stop the leaking of 90w gear oil INTO my bearings' OR 'how to install the seals into the swivel balls to prevent the leaking' ??
(I'm assuming this needs to be done).

Anyway, I appreciate it nonetheless.

Nicholas Orros

[Tawayama]

What's wrong with the swivel ball oil leaking into the bearings? Personally I would think it's a good thing.

Now...if you're getting dribbling oil down the inside of your swivel ball, then you need to replace the swivel seal.

Your bearings are SUPPOSED to look mucky and greasy. I tore into my front end on the CrewCab on Saturday and the grease was as black as can be. Moly grease mixed with 90wt is black (which is probably what you had going on in your swivels.

More important than the swivel balls leaking into your hub bearings, is the need for absolute lubrication of your hub bearings. Did you re-pack them while you were in there? Did you fill up the void between the bearings with some extra grease?

Ali Ashfaq's motto is: "When in doubt...lubricate". I think it has some validity here.

[Mike Hippert]

For the front look here. (http://catalog.roversnorth.com/catalog/pdfs/drive.pdf) Scroll down to page 38, it's a good breakdown of the front end. My guess, would be 28 or 29 in that picture. But I'm kinda with Mike, If it's getting lubercated then it can't be all that bad.

For the back, when you pull everything apart to do the bearings (when the hub/flange is off) and you look in the end of the axle tube you should see a small rubber seal. That's what was causing the diff fluid to leak into the bearings on my 90. When you reassemble you must be careful to not let the weight of the shaft push that seal out of place. I had to replace the seals as 90wt was leaking all over the rotor and tire. 90 wt on your breaks is one time Ali Ashfaq's motto does not apply.:grin

[Tawayama]

It's number 29. Number 28 is the brass bushing. I actually ordered one of those for my CrewCab this morning from Rover's North. I was VERY impressed that they had two on the shelf for an '83 axle. It's a different part no. from the later trucks and I was nervous they wouldn't have it.

Personally I was thinking of taking out those seals that are number 28 when I had the front ends taken apart.

Different strokes...

EDIT: Now that I hear about your experience with your leaking oil onto the rotors I'm thinking leaving them in place is probably a good thing. ;)

[Mike Hippert]

Michael, my problem was with the rear, I don't think it would be a problem with the fronts, but I'm just going with what I have heard from others.

[norros]

Michael & Michael,

Thanks a bunch for the responses.

First, I did repack the bearing with grease (AMSOIL High Performance Series 2000 Lithium Grease... great stuff) and put plenty in the space in between this time. I know that a little 90w in with the bearings isn't bad, but this stuff was black with metallic specs throughout and about the thickness of a warm chocolate pudding. And it seemed to be making noises when I would turn.
In addition to the right front bearings looking like pudding, there is 90w on the 'outside' of my swivel balls, which I first thought was brake fluid but after closer inspection is indeed 90w, the swivel ball reservoir was quite low too.
So, I guess I need to replace the swivel ball seal AND the diff seal ?

Kinda confused... Is this a nightmare to accomplish ?
In short...(if you can) what steps would I be looking at ?

And the 'right rear' bearings looked the same as the front.

ouch.

Thanks fella's.

Nicholas Orros

[Mike Hippert]

The oil may or may not be leaking from the swivel to the diff, if it is it's not that big of a deal as the swivel and diff both run 90wt. The rear should be easy as you have replaced bearings back there before and this is only one more step. I have never done the fronts so time wise and how hard it is to do is only a guess for me, but it doesn't look to much harder then the rear.

[Red90]

Personally, I think letting the swivel oil into the bearing is a good thing.

What you NEED to do is replace the hub seal. Use the older RTC3511 seal as it is much better. This will keep the dirt out. To replace that, you only need to remove the hub... Fairly quick, say 1-1/2 hours per side.

I just did my front, going all the way in replacing the hub seals and the swivel ball seals. I left the seals between the swivel and the axle center out and the one between the swivel and the hubs out to allow oil to flow freely around.

Anyway it took me 4 hours per side.

[norros]

Fella's...once again thank you.

I am understanding a bit better now.

I agree with a little 90w swishing around couldn't be a bad thing so I guess I need to replace the swivel ball seal/gasket (?) so that no 90w gets out of my swivel ball and onto the front right rotor/brake setup. Because... that's what's happening.

The diff seems full, but the swivel is low, that's how I know the swivel is leaking. (plus it's all over the wheel/brakes...etc...)

Nicholas

[dbwitt]

:eek: Lets not forget to look at the swivel ball. If it is rusty it needs to be replaced.

[Tawayama]

If it's been coated with 90wt I think the chances of it being rusty are slim to none.

JohnB's suggestion is a good one. The new hub seals suck, so get a double lipped one.

I love that gooey warm chocolate pudding squishing between my fingers feel.

MMMMMmmmmmmm.....(drool....)

:grin

[norros]

Well, I do have the double lipped seal you guys spoke of in there, and did before, but it still was all gooey. And I'm rather fond of chocolate pudding myself but don't like my chocolate with metallic spec's throughout... know what I'm saying ? LOL...

So, it must be the swivel ball seal that needs to be replaced because I have a bunch of 90w (AMSOIL High Performance 90w GEAR OIL ... my favorite) all over the swivel ball, rotor & brake setup.

Am I on the right track ?


Thanks again fella's ... oh... and Mr. Slade... Nice Website!

Nicholas

[milli]

Could it be that your assoil is a little too good?
Go to the grease. It is proper land rover stuff (and you can drain it). I have wasted $ on that oil. Gave me a headache).
Your bearings are probably good as new.
More of a chance I'd have f-d up replacing them.

[Red90]

Well, yes, if the swivel seal is leaking, replace it. I'd do the hub seal at the same time. Obviously replace all gaskets. Use a little gasket sealant with each.

I have PMed you the online location of the workshop manual.

If the hub seal is newish and leaking, you probably have a bad spindle sealing surface. If that is the case, you can usually fix it by a small skim on a lathe over the sealing area.

[Red90]

OK, trying to post a picture of the front hub cross section.

Front axle hub and swivel housing
1. Axle casing
2. Ventilation pipe
3. Axle shaft
4. Wheel studs and hub
5. Stub axle
6. Wheel bearings
7. Inner and outer hub seals
8. Axle shaft seal
9. Hub lock plate, thrust washer and nuts
10. Brake disc
11. Drive flange
12. Shim washer and circlip
13. Dust cap
14. Constant velocity joint/shaft
15. Thrust collar for CV joint
16. Roller bearing
17. Spacer
18. Circlip
19. Top and bottom swivel taper bearing
20. Top and bottom swivel pins
21. Spherical housing, seal and retainer
22. Swivel housing
23. Constant velocity shaft seal

[snuffer]

Hey Nick, just to add to the confusion, I like the Land Rover swivel ball grease. I always thought it might be too thick to flow and lubricate the cv joint, but it's not.

It flows well and is more like a thick oil than a grease. The front axle has a seal just like the rear axle to prevent the diff lube and swivel ball lube from mixing.

In my opinion, if they mix it's not a big deal, but I do like all of my seals to work as they are designed to.

Oh also, Land Rover went to the heavier swivel ball grease and the seal separating the diff from it because of complaints of the 90 wt. leaking around the swivel ball seal.

The swivel ball seal is not hard to change, just don't mess with the swivel pins and their bearings. (numbers 19 & 20 in the above post)

That should really be confusing because I get confused typing it. I have a tech article on the wheel bearings that I wrote if you want to PM me for it, but didn't write one up for the swivel ball seal.

[norros]

Red90,
thank you for the link, I've got it downloaded and will have to go through it when time permits... and thanks for the pic and the much detailed number explanation.

And thanks everyone for the 'info' on the grease. Now, I am going to say what I've 'heard' about the grease... not my opinion so don't let me piss anyone off... :)
I've heard that the grease isn't good if you go wheeling a lot because it's hard to clean out of there without taking the whole thing apart. And even though it's a semi-thick liquid when installing it may become gooey with dirt and what not after time. It may have gotten all gooey because I hadn't gotten in there for over a year and went wheeling a 'few' times. And come to think of it, it was kind of dirty in the hub too. Hmm...

I'd go wheeling more but in Tallahassee the LR's are far & few between... there's only ONE guy in town besides me that has a D90 and the rest are RR's & Disco's that don't even tread on dirt roads. There is wheeling but it's generally 17 year old kids with big ole' Chevy pickups with huge mudders that just like to 'beat the piss' out of their trucks, which I'm not prepared to do. Having the only other D90 in town is cool though, I get stopped all the time... most of the time it's cool but sometimes if you're in a hurry...

Anyway, I know how to do the bearings & bearing seal so that's not a problem, and when I was in there the seal looked fine... but I'll change it out regardless.
As far as the swivel ball seal, that's going to be a weekend project...

So... I guess the answer to my original post as to whether or not the part(s) I need to order is the:
SWIVEL PIN HOUSING - SEAL KIT Part No. STC3321
The answer is: YES . ?

Thanks again everyone,

Nicholas Orros

[mikeslandrover]

I'd go with Mike Slade. Oil leaking into the bearings is a good thing if that's as far as it leaks. Older 90 axles used to have the bearings running in oil from the axle as standard.:grin