electric fans

[mattdh]

thoughts , advice,and opinions on replacing thee viscous fan with electric fans anyone?by the way chris-very nice on the new setup!!!

[javelinadave]

Electric Cooling Fans:
Pro's :)
More HP from your engine.
Can turn off for water crossings.
Might be quieter than stock fan.

Con's :(
Needs electricity to run. (Bad alternator or bad battery = potential overheating, warped heads, long walk home thru the scary woods at night)
Engine driven fan is always available.
If it is hooked up now it is FREE!

Old Thread on this subject (http://www.d-90.com/discus/messages/16/2454.html)

[Mike Hippert]

I have electric Fans! They are noisy but they cool just as good as the clutch fan and it's easy to tell if they are woring right compaired to a clutch fan. They also make it allot easier to work on anything else under the hood as they free up space.

[rover4x4]

do you think they keep the motor cooler?

[Mike Hippert]

Hmmm, hard to tell. I never new when the clutch fan was going in and out but it feels like the electric fans pull more air. I have the Flexilite 210s I think.

[rover4x4]

cool was installation pretty straight foreward? this seems to be a good idea for the D-90 easy way to pick up a few HP and keep it cooler? I have only seen one of these and that was on a 2.5 diesal.

[Mike Hippert]

Hardest part is getting the old fan off. You need a big wrench or a strap wrench to hold the pully in place when you try to unbolt the BIG nut on the clutch fan. Putting on the new fan and wiring it is easy.

[rover4x4]

cool thanks for the insight. where did you purchase yours from?

[Mike Hippert]

From http://store.summitracing.com and here they are http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FLX%2D220.:)

[mattdh]

mike you posted the link for the 220 and the guy in the write up under custom mods used the 210?which do i one do i buy?

[cgalpin]

The 210 comes with controls, the 220 without. Not exactly sure if you need the controls. I do know you'd still need to buy a override switch if you wanted that (and you do) for the 210...

I am contemplating this mod too, but as always the price is just enough to make you go mmh.

[Doug]

Other advantage is that the electrics blow air even when you are running at low rpm off road, rock climbing, etc. I have the 210 Flexalites with the controls -- I have them set to come on at 180 degrees. I have a mechanical aftermarket temp gauge plugged into the hot side of the radiator so I can see what's going on, and the engine has a 160 degree thermostat now. My AC fans come on at about 220 degrees without the AC running (with AC on, they run all the time). 220 is kinda warm and I'd like to figure out how to get those ac fans to kick in at about 200 instead. (Remember I have unusual cooling issues 'cause of the engine.) Doubt there is a way to change that, but open to ideas...

[cgalpin]

Ok, but what I want to clear up is if I need the "controls". The plan is to buy the flexalite 210/220, the vw fan switch (Beck/Arnley 201-0809), and a switch to override it.

So would I need the controls? Aren't the switches all the control I need?

Sorry for the questions - I'm just a CB and can save I can save $25 if I get the 220. Thanks,

charles

[Mike Hippert]

Charles, You don't need the controls, you can use 2 30 amp relays instead, thats what I use, they are cheaper and easier to replace. You just use the VW switch to turn on the relays. I have each fan run on it's own relay and fuse, so if one fan dies it does not take out the other. I can post a wireing diagram I have at work on Monday.

Doug why not replace the AC T-stat switch with the VW one that Charles is using? I am sure they sell different switches that turn on at different temps. I bet they have one that comes on at 195*.

[cgalpin]

Thanks Mike. Please send the diagram.

I'm making one last attempt at trying to find a (cheap) US counterpart to the fan clutch, and If I can't pull that off, I'm getting a flexalite 220!

Doug, from the reading I have done, you don't need the switch for the AC, even if you use it. Just hard wire the AC fan to come on all the time when you are running the AC (ie bypass the switch) and use the switch location for the flex.

charles

[flippedrover]

Something I found out at MAR is turn the AC to hot and the fan will come on with out turning on the compressor. Had hot running issues at MAR. Charles let me know if you need a hand with the install. As I'm headed that route soon too.

[cgalpin]

Actually the best is to just unplug the lead to the compressor and run the ac. Works for me :)

Hey Tyler - just noticed your edit. I'll let you know if I go that route. Not to jynx myself, but it sounds like the hardest part is removing the old fan.

charles

[Vadim]

I just change my clutch fan to electrical fan.Me and my friend went to local junk yard and pick up fan from "Eagle" (car),then We pick up small relay and fuse box from some other old car.Of course we install switch from VW.Fanny thing...fan from Eagle fit perfectly.It's even bolt right in,I don't make any mod to radiator :)) When I open hood now ,it's look like was factory bult,and always been here :)) Actually my friend done such of good job :))

[flippedrover]

Charles. Cool. Its not too hard to get off. Had the water pump done before MAR.

[cgalpin]

Hi Vadim

Now were talking! Although around here, we can't go into the junkyards - they only let you buy the stuff they pull.

So... Do you happen to know what year eagle? Roughly what did they charge you? Specs on the relay too if you have them :)

Also, regarding switches, I'l like to put a "stock looking" switch inside. I have something that looks like a dummy switch for a rear defroster or something that i could replace. Anyone know where I can get something like that?

Thanks
charles

[Mike Hippert]

Hey Vadim, how about a pick of the fan?

Oh and the wiring Diagram I made. Any question on it please post so I can revise it.

[Vadim]

I think we pull out of 1991-93 Eagle sedan 'Premier'.They all same.When you look for fan,make sure it from V6 or V8 .And it must be narrow,othervise it will hit water pump.Fuse box I pulled from some old toyota (small box for 3 fuses,you really will need max 2 --30 Amp).Its don't matter toyota or mazda or some else,main idea they need to be 30 Amp and no more than for 2 or 9 fuses.You can install for 5-6 fuses too,but it too big.Then we got cooling fan relay,from old american car 1980-1990. Most relay will work. Switch was VW.All conversion cost me around $35-40 .Fan was $15,relay and fuses with box $5 ,and VW switch $15.Reason why I can't remember from which cars we pull some stuff,becouse way this junk yard built.Its call Pull-a-part ,and you just come and look in 100-200 hundred cars for parts.Of course no Defenders :)If you need some fotos or explanation how we wire it .please let me know.I can posted this for you guy's.
Thank you
Vadim

[cgalpin]

Thanks Vadim

I think I'd like to see pictures too. Is this a dual or single fan? So far looking online, the only thing I can find so far is a single.

I've heard taurus fans work too btw, just your description of it fitting without mods sounds good.

in my case I have to add a wrinkle. I have a auto transmission conversion from a '94 disco. The transmission cooler is on the engine side of the radiator, which I expect will interfere with the electric fan without mods.

Anyone have pics of a '97 D90 with a trans cooler?


charles

[Mike Hippert]

The taurus fans don't work out:(

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3209

[Vadim]

Its single fan,but will do the work.You can add one more fan on front of radiator too .I saw some small fans from old Subaru,they will fit good.My temperature gauge stay less than middle.I have fotos now ,but I don't know how to post them.And I don't wire direct to battery,as some people did.We run littile different set up,soon my friend show up in office I ask him to make diagramm of it.As far how is cooler goes ,you can move it to the front of radiator ( i think ).

Follow-up Post:

Mike ,I try upload this fotos,but I guess the too big.If you want I email you fotos ,and may be you be more lucky:)
Charles if you want I can emai you this fotos.Just give you email.

[Mike Hippert]

Send them on over Vadim!:)

[Vadim]

Just send them by email.Thank you Mike.

[Mike Hippert]

Pics! From Vadim

Follow-up Post:

And a wiring diagram

[Doug]

The Flexalite 210 2X12" kit will shroud the entire radiator like it was made for Defenders.

[cgalpin]

Thanks Vadim/Mike.

Vadim, can you give me an idea of how much clearance there is between the fan blades and the radatior. I think my trans cooler is going to throw a wrench in the works.

Would you accept $50 for your used clutch? I don't need the fan.

charles

[javelinadave]

I'm with Doug on this one. I would not "cheap out" on fans for the motor. $250 is a hell of alot cheaper than new heads from an overheated aluminum block LR motor. Just my 2 cents.

[cgalpin]

Mike/Doug whats the clearance between the fan and the radiator on the flexalite 210?

[Doug]

The fans sit about 1/2 inch from the radiator. The fans are in a shroud (with a soft gasket all around to fit snug) that pulls air to the fans from the whole radiator surface. The 210 Flexalite is 'low profile' and there is plenty of room between the engine and fan. Go to Flexalite's site to get dimensions.

PS: My 110 tranny cooler is in front of the rad. Don't know about 90s. Is it a thin long tube thing at the bottom rear of radiator? If so, you'd have to do some measuring....

[cgalpin]

I understand the value of the shroud, and agree that its best to have it encompass the whole radiator.

My D90 has an aftermarket auto swap done. My a/c cooler is on the front, and the auto cooler is on the engine side.

I could possibly increase the thickness of the gasket around it (you say there is enough engine clearance, but I start objecting to spending (it will be more than) $250 and having to start mod it....

If I could only find a cheap fan clutch. $150 for that is above my threshold for pain too :)

charles

[Vadim]

Hi Charles.$60+ shipping and it all yours.I will need you full address and I tell you how much will be shipping.PayPal will be ok(if you have one) I will only charge you for shipping whatever ,UPS charge me.And I have very good rates with them.Between radiator and blades its around half inch.People think its cheap solution,but its not.If I don't spend $250 or 300$,just becouse I am creative and can do lot of stuff by my self,it doesn't mean it will work worse than other $250 solution.If you want you can install additional small fan on the front of radiator(from old Volvo or Subaru).Don't worry it will do job ,as same as $250 :))My next project to do roof rack.I don't think $1500 fear price for rack :) tooo much for rack :) I saw one guy on ebay ,he sells nice rack's for $239 and with some mod it will be nice rack.I will post photos after I finish.My email is vad@zoomtek.com
Thank you
Vadim

[read]

Doug,

Just saw your rig at the mechanics yesterday. Did not get to look under the hood, I was confined to drooling around the truck. I must say it is refreshing to see a truck with such well thought out and executed mods. My truck's currently having the same upgraded radiator put in that's in your truck.

My apologize for the hijack Vadim.

Read

[jaherring]

I installed two Kragan Auto Parts-purchased Hayden 12" fans. Side-by-side they cover nearly the entire radiator in width and a bitless in height, and pull more CFM than the single 14" would. Cost: ~$130. I then used their fan wiring kit, another ~$25 which includes a relay, temperature probe, fuse and all the wire you need if you keep it all under the hood. I pull power for the fans from the wire that leads from the batter to the alternator, and I use the positive side of the coil for keyswitch control. I took photos and I'll post them here later.

Pros with this setup:
I really like the idea of two fans for redundancy. These fans pull *alot* of air - I'm sure more than stock, and the engine never runs too hot (so far). They provide alot of clearance to fiddle under the hood in front of the engine, too. I'm pretty happy with this as a replacement for the stupid-always-breaks viscous fan. You also don't need a big shroud as these fans have a very low profile & the blades have very low clearance from the radiator. The very small shroud they come with is all you need to draw alot of air through the radiator.

Cons with this setup:
I don't like their pre-calibrated temperature probe which uses radiator temperature to control the fan relay. I also don't like the non-waterproof connectors used on this probe. I plan to install a different temperature sensor & connector in the thermostat housing a bit later down the road. I would also prefer to run a dual relay setup to completely isolate the two circuits for nearly complete redundancy. I also would prefer to have the relays in the cabin mounted in with the rest of the electrical system for conciseness, but hey, this isn't a car show winner :) That might wait until I go TD...

[Vadim]

Hi Read.We all big community .and we all love each other :)If I can help somebody with advise or spare,I just love to do this.Becouse when I was need help,lot of people try help me too.It what very nice about this website and members.Way how people try help each other and share information.
I like say Thank You to everybody who keep this website running.
Best regards,
Vadim

[Doug]

Thanks, Read. It's taken some time to get there! ;)

Doug

[scoloco]

I think I'm going to be in the 'time-to-go-electric-fans' group (motor got quite hot on the trail the other day). Flex-a-lites are quite loud, yes? Tyler has them, yes?
Are there other options, and how noisy are they in comparison? All electrics I've heard so are are loud - thats likely why I've heard them :rolleyes

[Mike Hippert]

Tyler doesn't have Flexalights, Trevor has them and his Disco didn't seem that loud. Mine are only a little louder then stock at idle.

[souza]

What was the fan running on Tyler's truck then? He has some electric fan that was definately loud.

[cgalpin]

Tyler has the be cool's (spelling?) and they are a lot louder than the flexalites which I was running. Do you remember hearing mine?

Here is a thread with some mice info on mounting and wiring a flexalite

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5260&page=2&pp=15&highlight=flexalite

Nice meeting you this weekend Scott!

charles

[scoloco]

Tyler has the be cool's (spelling?) and they are a lot louder than the flexalites which I was running. Do you remember hearing mine?

Nice meeting you this weekend Scott!


Actually I dont remember hearing anything other than Tylers fans :) Dont recall hearing Trevors, Charles', Mikes (oh, thats right, they were not there :grin). Only Tylers. Maybe the flexalites wont be so bad....

Charles - ditto!

[cbass]

What about the Kenlowe's? Bill at GBR suggested them, but I haven't been able to find them in the US and am waiting to hear back from Bill to see if he can get them. Anybody have any experience with the Kenlowe's?

[scoloco]

Saw a potential set of kenlowes, followed by Bills post enquiring about them. From what I can tell a few more pennies than a flexalite setup, but it seems good from what I have been able to dig up (which is not much, esp on this side of the pond).

[flippedrover]

Yeah I have Be Cools and yep they are louder than the Flex-lites but they pull more air.

[DaveHuny]

I kept looking for the 747 whenever Tyler was behind me! ;)

[flippedrover]

:finger That's right go ahead and rag on the airline pilot!!

[Mike Hippert]

Get the Flexes and be done with it! THey kick butt, are easy to get replacement parts for, their not too loud, they leave plenty of splace in the engine compartment to work on the engine, and they mount up easy with some angle alluminum.

The biggest killer on the trail is mud in the radiator, I am thinking of fabbing up a rad cover for mud crossings.