Not For Tunnel Vision Patriots

[wicks]

http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm

[mattdh]

i think wicks is just trying to piss some one off

[dnewman9]

I have to give the article credit, it has a few good points. If you are a conspiracy theorist its probably totally believable.

FWIW,
I was just talking with Elvis and the gunmen from the grassy knoll and they think the article is crazy.
D

[Buckon37s]

Listen Wicks,

I don't know why the hell you would post bullshit like this on this site. I don't even know what kind of moron would believe that this was a fraudulent video but you better watch that video, I have a feeling that you never did.

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/002452.php

Go on and take a look. Everybody needs to. This is what we are up against. This is why we are there. This is a war, I am so sick and tired of candy-ass crybabies talking about abuse because we stripped down a few terrorists. I do not need to see it on this board. Get rid of this shit, and get a clue.

[wicks]

Listen here Buchberger.

I entitled the thread "not for tunnel vision patriots". Gun slingers are expected to demonstrate complete lack of intellectual capacity for open discussion. The worst of them will even demonstrate blind allegience to any perceived dominating force, such as a government.

There is appropriate allegiance, such as fighting the Nazis, and there is illegitimate allegiance, such as Vietnam. Intelligence is evidenced by being able to see the difference, which the country eventually did, withdrawing from the second contest I mentioned. There is ample evidence from the US's past that it will engage in false propaganda, just like any other country, to gain the support of its citizens and to gain continued access to their pocketbooks to finance the waging of war.

The US happens to be the leader in free speech, democratic logic and so forth. As a US citizen, I appreciate our right to examine, investigate or criticize our own government's activites. It's actually one's duty as a citizen. Try doing yours.

Again, I did not say that I think the examination posted is accurate; I have not made my own investigation. I simply find the results shockingly realistic, and chose to share such with fellow landie owners because I think many of them may also be intellectually interested.

ps - I watched the video already but thanks. I also don't really care about the stripped prisoners. Simple correction at the low level command is all that that calls for. Did you notice the clock in the video?

[mattdh]

i have to agree with david 100 percent on every thing he said.also think about this- if its possible that someone fabricated that video who says that they didnt fabricate the crap you just read??

[Buckon37s]

Listen, I am not going to get into this here but I will post this and then be done with it. If your going to hide behind your intellect on this one try to find an article that doesn't use a plastic chair as it's first exhibit of evidence. And don't think for one second that you are being a great citizen by parroting what every main stream liberal organization is saying. And don’t even try to postulate that this is anything like Vietnam. I will say this, people don’t have a damn clue what is going on and Wicks, if you believe this you are one of them. I have been over to the Middle East twice, including Jordan, Palestine, and Israel. I have seen the absolute unrelenting hate they have for us. You have no idea what these people are capable of.

The Koran is a cover to cover book of war and not only is Allah a mythic moon god, but he makes it quite clear that there is only two ways of getting into heaven, die killing a Christian or a Jew. I recommend that you read this, before deciding to agree with this war or just going the popular route. I do not have blind reverence for our administration and definitely not the Government, but right now we are getting torn apart from the inside by people who believe garbage like what you posted. Don’t you tell me about duty, ever, you have no right, you know nothing about me. You should simply apologize to Berg’s family for posting junk. It was a dull blade execution of a young man. You need to watch it! It will scar your soul. This is in such tremendously bad taste.

[Joe P]

I didn't Michael Moore owned a D-90. - Sorry Wicks

I think it would be best if Chris or Mike stepped in here and removed this post altogether.

Joe

[chrisvonc]

I need this like I need a hole in my head.

[Trigger]

I must have missed the D-90 references in those links. Can someone point them out? :rolleyes

[wicks]

That's some seriously bigoted rambling. Why do you think they all (stress:all) hate us so much? How about some responsibility. The US is attracting a little too much hate these days for my taste.

And about Berg's family, I would be incredibly sorry for their and his loss if that indeed is this person (Did you know him? Is that how you are so sure?). If the video is a hoax, then maybe he's still alive. Ever think of that, or was your one track fighting machine mind blinded by fury and rage? How about all the other guys who got killed? Are they already forgotten? Were their lives spent wisely? I am sure those are questions you are afraid to ask.

It seems you are also confused about what's popular. That article would definitely fall under the "not popular" category. Your attempt to provoke knee-jerk rally reaction by positioning me with "popular" and liberatarians is pretty futile, anthough effective on most of the population.

And thanks for chiming in with an occiasional D-90 reference Joe. So I imagine you're looking forward to his next picture that Miramax just bought from Disney? ;)

A little DWeb excitement on the D-90 board! Never woulda thought.

Oh and Buchberger - just a debating tip. You don't tell people what to do or not do, you state your case in argument. Trying to order the other party to do your bidding against their will is what fascists do (especially regards religion). Your dissertation reads like Mein Kampf.

[wicks]

From the BBC:

Politics: 15 May 2004, Saturday.
The Daily Mirror editor Piers Morgan has been fired as the newspaper apologized "unreservedly" for publishing fake photographs of Iraqi prisoner abuse. The dismissal comes a day after Royal Military Police probe found the newspaper pictures allegedly showing British troops abusing Iraqi prisoners to be fake. The Daily Mirror said in a statement that it would be inappropriate for Morgan to continue as editor and acknowledged the damage it had done to the reputation of the British army. "There is now sufficient evidence to suggest that these pictures are fakes and that the Daily Mirror has been the subject of a calculated and malicious hoax, " the newspaper said.

[wicks]

Oh and something very smelly on CNN. The chances this was coincidental are more than 250,000 to 1.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/13/berg.encounter/index.html

[Campbell]

David could not have said it better.

"Go on and take a look. Everybody needs to. This is what we are up against. This is why we are there. This is a war, I am so sick and tired of candy-ass crybabies talking about abuse because we stripped down a few terrorists. I do not need to see it on this board. Get rid of this shit, and get a clue."

[Mike Hippert]

If you guys want to talk about politics you may want to try here

http://forums.pearljam.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=15

[wicks]

IMDB Movie Reviews: 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 received a 20-minute standing ovation when it was screened at the Cannes Film Festival on Monday. Thierry Frémaux, the festival's artistic director, told today's (Tuesday) New York Times that it was the longest ovation he had ever witnessed at Cannes. Meanwhile, the Times reported that instead of making a deal with a single distributor, Miramax chiefs Harvey Weinstein and Bob Weinstein are attempting to put together a consortium that would ensure the anti-Bush documentary the widest theatrical release possible.

[Joe P]

Wicks,

Come on man. This is not the place for pushing your political agenda. There are plenty of other BBS that would love to discuss conspiracy theories or how bad the US is or Michael Moore and his one-sided view of reality. D-90.com is not it.

BTW - Where was Michael Moore when Clinton was inviting the enemy to stay in the White House or pardoning his campaign donors, or getting BJ's from his intern.

[wicks]

I don't have a political agenda. And Moore's whereabouts? Maybe he had just finished paying Monica to seduce him. ;) I guess maybe you aren't interested in movies.

What's your agenda with the ant-Clinton propaganda? Nixon, Clinton, whomever - mostly the same parade.

People at D-90.com have personality, and I like that. I don't think it's in the rule book that we all have to agree on everything and "march in step" as if we were "Defender Youth".

[dnewman9]

The thing I REALLY like about this (don't vote for bush) board is that our vehicles (bush sucks) seem to attract a higher quality of people. Hidden agendas (bush is the devil), flame wars and general (republicans have ruined the country) useless comments directed to inflame others (bush stinks) have killed every other board I have seen (democrats rule).

For the record I really like Bush, think he has done a great job in a very hard presidential term given the economy and political house of cards he was asked to run. I do not wish to debate this with anyone, nor do I feel anyone needs to support my feelings. I state this to ensure people understand my illustration above is ONLY an illustration of how seemingly benign comments about a film festival or conspiracy theory might as well be paraphrased as above.

Wicks, I really don't mean to pick on you, I know full well you are capable of defending yourself even if I did, I just find the last couple topics bothersome for an otherwise entertaining board, I think several others feel the same. I come here to be entertained by fellow enthusiasts of the Land Rover Defender and while an occasional O/T post is to be expected, it seems you have gone out to the extreme on the last couple posts in order to push some personal agenda and or cause outrage. If you were just trying to educate us I would expect equal coverage of both sides of the topics.

If you feel you need the intellectual stimulation I am sure there has to be someone down at the local Starbucks you can enjoy some banter with.

I think you have made your point and I don’t see the need to start more heated debates?
Dennis

[TwisteD90]

Wow, how did I miss this thread? However, I did not read it since politics is one big game that no one will understand or win.

As for the video, I've seen it and I think it totally wrong to kill another human being. It's just wrong in so many ways.

As I said I never talk politics neither read the link that was posted by Wicks, but all I want to say and make one thing clear is that Islam is a realign that does not allow killing another human being and those who say they are and killing people are not Muslims in my eyes PERIOD. :mad This kinda of crap makes really upset as I was never raised that way and I hate it when people do something and hide and say Islam told us to do that.

I know It's totally up to Chris but can we please keep that crap out of the BB.

[ELCIDd90]

wow, you guys have way too much time on your hands. Politically, I guess I'm in the middle of the liberal/conservative world and found parts of both the polarized views of Wicks' and David's posts offensive.

If you guys feel that strongly about whats going on in the world, you might find it more effective to go and actually do something about what's going on in the Middle East. Maybe join the military(if your still young enough), volunteer for the Red Cross, humanitarian work, etc. Try actually working towards a solution(whether it takes months or YEARS) rather than arguing about it.

I prefer to let my actions speak louder than my words personally.

-chris, please delete this at your leisure. I'm not much of a political writer, I came here to feed my LR addiction.

[wicks]

What? Huhh? Religion? I don't believe that I made any comments on religion. I've hardly made any comments of my own at all. Just talked about people making comments really.

I may have provoked Bushberger to crack and spill the beans on his anti-Muslim rhetoric. Apologies for that.

I agree completely on actually doing something. I am a sponsor and occaisional participant of several social, civil and human rights groups that are working along such lines.

Frankly, I am surprised at the larger part of the (responsive) group. I thought it might be better news that the thing could be a fake. My mistake.

Perhaps we should all move over to the Mothers thread. After all, we do chose what we read, and what we post.

[ELCIDd90]

Cool, we should all be a little more pro-active.

Z

[mhansen]

Fellow Americans

Let’s just remember one thing, the reason that we can rant about a subject, or ANY subject for that matter is the US constitution gives us that right. But I have to agree with Joe P, “This is not the place for pushing your political agenda” If you want to read and post in a political forum, I would go there.

At the last Colorado M & G, many topics were discussed, but a mans politics was just not one of them.

Dennis;

I talked to Elvis last week. He was driving a ’69 Series 2A and looking really good. We talked about welfare entitlements, and how it has ruined the work ethic of most of the lower middle class and pour in the South, and therefore sentencing them to a lifetime of poverty.

Mike
(5 miles from Graceland) :cool:

[chrisvonc]

Amazingly this thread has not gone out of hand as I thought it could have gone fasters and so far besides just getting people hot and bothered, really has not warranted being deleted yet so if the thread is to stay, lets keep it that way. However, this is not a thread about politics or religion. 2 topics that that are war starting issues to begin with, will never play out well on a forum so get back on topic.

Personally I found nothing wrong with the original link. To be honest, I am more offended by the conspiracy site out there trying to prove that 9/11 was the deliberate act of the CIA acting on US soil to rally support against the middle east. But thats another whole can of worms...

I have no doubt that David Berg is dead. I have no doubt that his parents, friends and family are grieving. These are realities I believe to be true. I have seen more than my share of the violence men do to to each other under the flags of religion, oppression, hate, and politics and you dont have to go too far on the internet to find even more horrid videos of these examples. But personally, after watching the video many times, I too have to admit, I am still left with the inability to discredit my original first impression that some things were wrong with that video. Regardless of my insignificant and meaningless opinion or even if there is a hidden true reality that we may never know about his life and what lead to his death, it doesnt make David Berg any less dead or lessen the loss to those that were close to him and shared their lives with him.

[chrisvonc]

Let’s just remember one thing, the reason that we can rant about a subject, or ANY subject for that matter is the US constitution gives us that right.Well, no, here you can do that because, outside of a few execptions, I dont really care what Misc Chit-Chat you want to rant about, as long as it doesnt turn into a retard posting flame-fest. Believe me, if something gets posted that I dont want on the site, its going to get deleted or censored, but that really doesnt happen too often here with this gang.

However, I would prefer that we leave the politics and religious holy war threads to other sites where they would be more fitting.

[TwisteD90]

Opppps my bad, I should have read the link first. I just went based on what David wrote. However, I still stand about what I said ;)

[TwisteD90]

Well, no, here you can do that because, outside of a few execptions, I dont really care what Misc Chit-Chat you want to rant about, as long as it doesnt turn into a retard posting flame-fest. Believe me, if something gets posted that I dont want on the site, its going to get deleted or censored, but that really doesnt happen too often here with this gang.

However, I would prefer that we leave the politics and religious holy war threads to other sites where they would be more fitting.


Hey is porn allowed

[chrisvonc]

Hey is porn allowedNo, but if you are concerned about the quality of good porno, you can always share the link with an email and I will take time out of my busy schedule to make sure its OK for you buddy.
:thumbs

[TwisteD90]

:lol

[mhansen]

Well, no, here you can do that because, outside of a few execptions, I dont really care .

Oh Great Administrator God (Chris)

I am sorry, I Don’t remember saying HERE!
I meant it as a general statement.

[chrisvonc]

Oh Great Administrator God (Chris)

I am sorry, I Don’t remember saying HERE!
I meant it as a general statement.
Oh really? Well, my bad then. Since your comments were directly targeting the conversations at hand in this thread, silly me, thats the way I perceived it:
Let’s just remember one thing, the reason that we can rant about a subject, or ANY subject for that matter is the US constitution gives us that right. But I have to agree with Joe P, “This is not the place for pushing your political agenda” If you want to read and post in a political forum, I would go there.:)

[mhansen]

Still Friends? :kiss

[chrisvonc]

Of course! I have no enemies here...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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....they've just been silenced. :ncomment

:)

[snuffer]

Get a job Wicks you've got too much time on your hands.

[wicks]

I read and write very quickly. But thanks for the tip.

[dnewman9]

Dennis;

I talked to Elvis last week. He was driving a ’69 Series 2A and looking really good. We talked about welfare entitlements, and how it has ruined the work ethic of most of the lower middle class and pour in the South, and therefore sentencing them to a lifetime of poverty.

Mike
(5 miles from Graceland) :cool:

ha ha, now that is an appropriate O/T post IMO. LOL!

[Doug]

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Michael Moore (news)'s controversial documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" moved a step closer to U.S. theaters on Friday as Miramax film studio founders Harvey and Bob Weinstein personally bought rights to the picture from Walt Disney Co. .

Too bad they didn't buy it to burn it, like Arnie did with that documentary about wrestling....

DW

[wicks]

Very interesting (for those who read)...so much for the opposing Moore and Berg ramblings.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040528/ts_nm/iraq_usa_berg_dc