Rotor & Pad Lifetime?

[DJ Menasco]

Gang

Anyone here know the average lifespan of a set of rotors and/or pads for a Discovery II? Call me crazy, but a local shop (not to be named) stated that "we're past the minimum point" for our rotors and pads. Normally I wouldn't bat an eyelash because the warranty takes care of everything, but as a lot of you know the pads and rotors aren't. It a Disco is a 03' with 20K miles put on it mostly from daily driving and other various trips across the states.

Anyway, if anyone has any experience with this or information I'd appreciate your input. Thanks guys.

DJ

[Davis]

The rears wear out pretty quickly, I replaced mine at 40K, but that was per the dealer suggestion. I have not replaced my front and I have about 101,000, although they are in need. I have a 2000 DII.

[Roadsiderob]

DJ,
Working at the dealer, I did numerous brake jobs on these cars. Average life for pads is 25-30k miles...can be much more if the car lives on the highway, or can be much less if driven in town or with frequent use of traction control. We serviced one Range Rover used by a hotel as a courtesy car that was driven so hard that it went through brakes at 10K mile intervals. The pads should be discarded when they reach 2-3mm before the backing. Minimum rotor thickness, I think, is 11.7mm. Since most cars are leased and serviced at 7500 mile intervals or less, most shops err on the side of caution and start suggesting replacement once the pads reach about 30% to prevent the average consumer from running the brakes metal to metal. You can do a quick check of the outer pads through the slot in the alloy wheels with a small inspection mirror and get an idea of how much pad is really there. To check the inner pads and rotor thickness it will require pulling the wheel. Usually you can get 2 sets of pads on a set of rotors, however, I have seen rotors worn to minimum spec. at fairly low milages.
Cheers,
Rob Dassler

[Glenn_Guinto]

:eek: 101,000 you mean the rotors right? Cause if you mean pads, those must be some miracle pads you got there. :grin

DJ, it varies between city/hwy driving of course. Although 20K on the pads in an unmodified D2 sounds a bit pre-mature, it's not that way off. When I got my 99D1 (in 99), I put a lot of mileage in the first year, 27K of mostly city driving. Sure enough, I needed to replace all the pads when I brought it to the dealer for the 30K service. After putting bigger tires, steel wheels and all kinds of black metal things sticking out, now I'm changing pads almost every 25K miles. I now have 83K on the Disco and have only had to change the rotors once (65K) and I change them to the DBAs.

[evilfij]

When I worked at the dealer the average DII got new rear pads at 15k, front pads at 22.5k rear pads and rotors at 30k and front pads (and maybe rotors) at 45k, if not front rotors at 45k it would normally fail inspection (PA min is rover min) on the rotors before 60k. Keep in mind most trucks were stop and go soccer mom types. highway people usually got about 50% more to double.

The worst was one very nice lady who had a series of 4.6 range rovers. 7500 miles per set of pads, all four usually (sometimes she got a few thou more on the fronts). She drove foot to the floor, then slammed on the brakes at every stop light and just drove up and down the street. Oh well, she could afford it and after she got used to it, it did not matter. When you are paying 1000+ a month lease for a rangie, $400 or $500 for pads twice a year is no biggy.

[TwisteD90]

20K miles don't sound right. My disco with 13K miles still had plenty of life and they looked great. I towed my D90 with a big trailer (7000lbs) from the first week of ownership (2-3 tows a month), lot's of 4 wheelin, and heavy breaking and they looked good. Why don't you inspect them yourself, and replace them? You can do it in no time.

BTW, I had both my pads and rotors replaced under the warranty at 13K miles :grin

[mhansen]

It’s a damn conspiracy! :cuss

The Dealer were I live will tell me (without fail ever, D-90 or Disco II) that I have bad pads or bad disks or both. I took my D-90 in a year ago and they told me I needed front and rear Disks and Pads, and the good part….$650 front and $550 rear.

Soooooo Brake kit from RN or AB is like $400, and if I can do math that’s $800 labor and at $100 per hour a 8 hour job! Well Bull Shit! Are they doing a test drive to Moab?

Well I take my Defender back to the Stealer a year and about 2000 miles later. No work has been done on the brakes. They tell me my fronts are 65% and my rears are 15% and I really should do the rears. Well the rears maybe. Disks are grooved a bit but the pads mic out at 50% but it was plumb frekin amazing that the fronts went from replacement to 65%.

Well I didn’t call the Pope just yet to ask for miracle status at the LR Centre. But brakes are a profit center for the dealer. And any mechanic trainee can do a brake job in 2 hours or so.

If you really need brakes, do the brakes yourself!! Very little mechanical talent needed. The shop manual covers brakes fairly good. And divine intervention should not be necessary.

On a side note: The manual also gives rooter tolerances so that rooters can be turned.. The Dealer will never turn your rooters (no profit in that!)

[DJ Menasco]

Thanks for all the information guys! I really appreciate it.

The thing was my wife took the Disco in and they told her that it required new pads and rotors. That's fine, but my personal assesment of them when I got home last night differed. The rotors have a minor lip on them and the pads seem as if they could be replaced in about 5-10K miles. So the situation isn't as dire as they made it out to be. Nonetheless, I think the brakes are at a stage in which I need to monitor thier status more often. So at this point I'll:

1. Probably wait on the rotors as they don't appear to be worn down enough to present any issues
2. Wait antoher 5-7K miles and condsider the pads
3. Tell the wife that she doesn't have to brake 10 feet before the intersection! :grin

Thanks agian everyone. (Even you dealer folk :grin)

DJ

[c2sox]

DJ,

I've gotten about 43.5K on my rotors and pads and the last time I had it serviced the tech mentioned that I should be able to just replace the pads only. But he did mention that I should consider switching to DBA's.

Ah and yes this was on my 01 D2.

Al

[BarryO]

By the time you get the "minor lip", the rotors are probably less than the specified minimum, and the dealer will tell you they need to be replaced. I got quoted $600 for the front rotors and pads. Parts (OEM) were $300; you can get them for less by buying elsewhere or going aftermarket.

I never replace the rotors at this stage, as the brakes still work just fine. Popping in new pads is such an easy job, you may want to do it even if there's some meat left on them, in order to avoid any chance of metal-on-metal scoring of the rotors. OTOH if you're planning on replacing rotors soon anyway, then you may want to let them go a bit longer. 20K is not unheard of in my experience for new pads.

[evilfij]

I agree with the non-dealer folk to an extent, however, in PA most decent places measure rotors for inspection and they do not last long on DIIs so its not like you have a choice. Also, thin rotors do not brake as well as fat rotors. So personally I replace rotors when they go under spec. Ironically, some of the mechanics (who could pass themselves knod knod wink wink) I know replace rotors with every set of pads.

[kellymoe]

I have 120k on the first set of rotors and probably my 4th set of pads. I am sure it is way past due for a change of rotors but it still brakes great. At the fire dept I work for we change the rotors every two sets of pads as a rule but the engines and trucks get driven a little harder than my Land Rover.

[loykd]

120K on my truck and I know that I at least need new pads, no idea if the rotors have been replaced, but when I last had my wheels off, I did notice they were worn down.

Any suggestions on pads/rotors?

AB sells a kit: http://www.atlanticbritish.com/ProductList.asp?Category=BRAKES&Vehicle=90&PerPage=1&ListType=DETAIL&PartNumber=9995
(What's the difference with the "high performance" for twice the cost?)

RN sells bits and pieces: http://catalog.roversnorth.com/catalog/large.taf?id=90frontdisc

Also, I don't have my workshop manual. Any chance someone could email or fax me the pages?

[Mike Hippert]

How about these

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803

And there might be a NH D-90 guy that has the manual.
:grin

[BarryO]

Rotors are heavy, and getting them mail order can lead to expensive shipping charges.

My local LR dealer actually quoted me a decent price on Brembo rotors for the D-90. He gets them from the local Worldpac distributor.

[aosias]

I've been on a brake kick with my D90 and now it has moved to the Disco II. I had a guy at a Firestone store do the breaks about 2 years ago and ever since then they have sucked. He tinkered with them a few times but they still aren't that great. Anyway, I was going to change the pads and rotors back to stock since that set up did better then this one. It's just the fronts I think, I can slam on the breaks but everyday stop and go is where I notice the poor performance.

What set up do you guys suggest for a daily driver that doesn't see any trail use that isn't going to break the bank. I am going to assume I'll need to do pads and rotors since that was what was done last time and I want a solid combo.

Thanks,
Alex

[rmuller]

The problem with aftermarket DII brake pads is that they will sometimes cause squealing which will trigger the ABS sensor to freak out and put the three amigos (abs/hdc/tc) lights on, which then need to be reset by the dealership.

In my opinion, the best two options is to either go genuine, or do EBCs.. which AB is having a sale on right now.

I personally have stock rotors on, that probably have 50k+ miles on them, and lockheed aftermarket pads... everything still has life to it and stops the car, but they squeal bad... once I have some spare $$, I think I'm going to go with the EBCs.

[evilfij]

Ferodo pads and brembo rotors (or genuine pads and rotors).

[Captain Spalding]

Hi DJ,

My wife has an '04 Disco. It eats rotors and pads at the same rate, usually around 15k miles. The first rotor/pad replacement was at 11k! My wife is not particularly lead-footed, so I was surprised. The second time around, when I got the call from the dealer saying that rotors and pads needed replacing at all four corners at 25k, I called foul. I went to the dealership, went back to the rack, and miked the rotors myself. (BTW, the tolerances are stamped into the edge of the rotor for easy reference.) The rotors were indeed thinner than spec. I offered to the service manager that it is a design flaw that the pads are so hard that they will wear out the rotors so quickly. He gave me some BS about the truck being very heavy and the brakes being highly engineered, blah blah blah. I replied that my D-90 was pretty heavy too, and that its brakes last three times as long. At that point both pairs of eyes glazed over and nothing else meaningful was said.

From what I've been able to gather from various sources, the DII rotors are case hardened, and the pads are relatively hard as well. Once the pads wear through the hardened surface of the rotor, the rotor wears down pretty quickly. Contrary to what has been said above, my understanding is that stock rotors may not be turned, because the hardened layer would be removed. The ultimate truth of this has been elusive, but the fact remains that the rotors wear unreasonably fast.

So, no more brake work at the dealer. I use an indie shop for all non-warranty work. They use the Brembo rotor/Ferodo pad combo. I haven't had that set on long enough to say if the working life is any longer. . .

HTH