1993 Nas 110 #302

[mattarm]

My plan is to use this thread to document the process of the restoration of my 93 110. I envision this thread to be a combination of my questions, your assistance and the resulting progress.

My goal is not to return the vehicle to show room condition or better than the original, but rather a solid, reliable, rust free daily driver. For the most part I have had pretty good luck for the last 45,000 miles of ownership, but rust and the wear and tear of the last 17 years is taking its toll.

I will admit that I dont have the end clearly defined, but some of it will need to be figured out along the way and any opportunity that presents itself could alter the direction. I plan to drive it as long as I can before tearing into it and then get it back on the road as quickly as possible.

Photos show what the 110 looks like the day I got it as well as how it looks today.

First time out on the rebuild, so I will be looking for plenty of info and will share everything that I learn along the way from the largest to the smallest items.

[JimC]

Very cool - I can't wait to see some progress!

How about you take pix of the stuff you are hoping to address so we can get some discussion going?

[mattarm]

First up on my plan is stripping and galvanizing my replacement bulkhead. With this comes my first set of questions:
1. Anybody know exactly what kind of bulkhead this is?
2. I suspect that I need to remove all plastic, rivits and captive nuts prior to galvanizing, anything I need to be aware of, or can I just remove and replace?
3. Bulkhead appears to have several overlapping layers of sheet metal, as pictured in 3rd pic, is this normal?
4. I plan to remove the air cleaner holder in 4th pic, any thing I need to know before I remove? Safe just to use a cut off disc on a grinder?

Also interested in any misc recommendations or information. I have posted a photosynth with several views giving pretty close to a 360 degree view at http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=6426dba9-f48d-4467-873e-ceebac913925. If you are unfamiliar with photosynth, you can zoom in and out and rotate the image to see multiple views.

Any information or advise is welcome.

[bjf]

where did you get this bulkhead? If you are going to change the bulkhead why not go for the newer style with the vents open and get an updated dash. I mean if you are going to spend the time and money to pull the truck apart I say why not.

[evilfij]

1. ROW bulkhead with AC, LHD circa lates 80s to early 90s. Almost an NAS 110 bulkhead, only the air cleaner mount should be different. I tried to buy it but you got to it first. Grrrr.
2. Not really. If the captive nuts are in there just leave them and tap them out later, if they can be removed, do so.
3. Normal
4. Don't know, but I can't see it being an issue.

Follow-up Post:

where did you get this bulkhead? If you are going to change the bulkhead why not go for the newer style with the vents open and get an updated dash. I mean if you are going to spend the time and money to pull the truck apart I say why not.

Because it is a PITA unless you are switching over to the newer style AC and heat and dash (ie $$$$).

[bjf]

Ron

I understand what you are saying and to be honest, the NAS 110 system has it's merits. No loss of leg room for one. Its just the thought of removing the current dash, pulling the cage, roof, windshield, etc and not putting the new style dash seems pennywise pound foolish.

Now if I ever put in a new style bulkhead, I am for sure painting my vent flaps, black so it still looks stock.

[JimC]

1. What Ron said, its as close to a NAS 110 bulkhead as you'll get for sure.
2. You do need to take everything off to get a nice clean result. The captive nuts will come off no problem. There is some stuff like rivets you can get away with leaving in, but why do it half-ass?
3. Normally there is a big glop of seam-sealer covering this area. Once you dip it you'll be better able to determine if it still needs a big glop of sealer.
4. Why are you removing the bracket? I would just add onto it a bit to make the v8 bracket shape. If you really do want to remove it, check out a flat spot weld cutter from Eastwood Company - it can drill out the welds without putting a hole in the panel. There's a lot of spot-welds holding that on, it will take a while with a grinder.
5. Try to find a place to chemically strip the bulkhead to ensure all the paint/coating etc is out from inside the bulkhead. Also, I believe you'll get a much nicer galv finish over chemically stripped steel than sandblasted steel.

[Jon_Winningham]

Matt,
Some of the best advise I can offer:

organization, label as much as you can, place small parts in little bins labeled were they came from
documentation, take many pictures and take notes (if you think you will remember how it goes back together later on, you won't)
realization, come to the understanding now that the amount of $$$$$ and time you estimate today, and multiply that amount by 3.
Number 1 & 2 above are your best friends (obviously the D-90 Source too), and for number 3... well that is up to the Rover gods.

[diesel_jim]

You going to keep it V8, or feel the hand of god on your shoulder and convert to a diesel? :cool:

[mattarm]

Barry,
I got the bulkhead from a guy locally. My current plan is to stick with my original style dash - or slightly modify it. Swapping over to the newer style dash will only add to my cost and complexity. Additionally, I am not a fan of the under dash AC unit. It may blow cold, but it sure seems to steal a ton of leg room.
Matt

where did you get this bulkhead? If you are going to change the bulkhead why not go for the newer style with the vents open and get an updated dash. I mean if you are going to spend the time and money to pull the truck apart I say why not.

[bjf]

I understand. We need some close up pics of your truck

[mattarm]

Jim,
My intent on removing the bracket is two-fold. 1. I am considering a few ideas to relocate some of the items in the engine compartment. The idea of some sort of "universal" mount/bracket that could occupy this space appeals to me. Even if on day 1, the only thing mounted was the air cleaner. 2. Although the immiediate plan is to keep the V8, future plans may involve conversion to diesel and as I understand it the current bracket may need to go at that time anyway. Plus I just think it looks cleaner as pictured - albeit this photo looks much cleaner than I will achieve due to tis lack of AC.

Anything specific I need to know or any type of chemical stripping I should be looking for, or to avoid? I guess I dont know what I dont know, so any additiona info would be helpful.
Thanks,
Matt

4. Why are you removing the bracket? I would just add onto it a bit to make the v8 bracket shape. If you really do want to remove it, check out a flat spot weld cutter from Eastwood Company - it can drill out the welds without putting a hole in the panel. There's a lot of spot-welds holding that on, it will take a while with a grinder.
5. Try to find a place to chemically strip the bulkhead to ensure all the paint/coating etc is out from inside the bulkhead. Also, I believe you'll get a much nicer galv finish over chemically stripped steel than sandblasted steel.
Follow-up Post:

Jamie,
This is the source of my greatest consternation. I really believe that once the 3.9 dies, a diesel is in my future, although I am still up in the air on whether that my be a 300, TD5 or even 4BT. My very rough plan on my project is:

1. Prep & Galvanize replacement bulkhead
2. Strip to chassis and repair any issues discovered (appears to be in good shape from what can be currently seen, although a previous rear crossmember swap needs to be cleaned up a little bit).
3. Dip chassis and any misc parts identified
4. swap over everything from orginal bulkhead to new bulkhead
5. re-assemble
6. swap out other items as needed or as aquired, while continuing to drive

So the $64,000 question is: Since the bulkhead will be galvanized, presumably set-up for V8 mounts, but at a later point perhaps needing mounts cut off and replaced for a diesel, is there anything that I can do prior to dipping to prep for either engine? In otherwords, if at a point in the future, mounts are cut off and new steel is welded in, that would introduce new ungalvanized surfaces up front that would be susceptible to corrosion. Am I just SOL here or is there some creative solution to create a setup that would/could accept either engine (assuming I identified the replacement)?

You going to keep it V8, or feel the hand of god on your shoulder and convert to a diesel? :cool:

[diesel_jim]

Jim,
My intent on removing the bracket is two-fold. 1. I am considering a few ideas to relocate some of the items in the engine compartment.
What you want is the bracket that is used on the UK/euro 50th anniversary 4.0 V8 90, that bolts on to the back of the block, not the bulkhead, so can easily be removed (the air filter lies crossways across the back of the engine)

part # PHU102790

clicky photobucket parts listing<--- (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/diesel_jim/airbracket.jpg)

[Grover]

The blue D has an interesting setup. Any more pics of it?


Cheers...

[mattarm]

It is the old Team Saluki 110. http://www.teamsaluki.com/landrover110.htm

[dave_lucas]

Matt,

M&D offers a kit to fit the 2.8 power stroke into the V8 motor mounts, they said it will also work with the 300tdi as well when I asked them.

You might check with them and see what they have to say

[mattarm]

After months of other stuff getting in the way, I have finally started on the disassembly. It looks like the dynamat I added a few years back helped to hold what little bulkhead I had together for a little longer.

[bjf]

wow impressive. did you do the bulkhead galv yet?

[mattarm]

Not yet. Wanted to hold off until I had a chance to test fit everything from the old to the new prior to galvanizing in the event that I needed/wanted to modify.

wow impressive. did you do the bulkhead galv yet?

[bjf]

is the truck still going to be white?

[mattarm]

Yep.

is the truck still going to be white?

[bjf]

are you doing a respray or just painting your new doors and bulkhead?

Now is a good time to rebuild your heaterbox. I would open that thing up and make sure it all is in top notch condition. It is such a bitch to remove later.

[130Tdi]

That bulkhead far exceeds the rustiest 83,84,85 bulkhead I have seen. Strange how clean the frame (seen through the bulkhead) looks to be.

[James Pierce]

That bulkhead far exceeds the rustiest 83,84,85 bulkhead I have seen. Strange how clean the frame (seen through the bulkhead) looks to be.

I wonder if the dyna mat didn't play a part in the rusting.

[bjf]

I wonder if the dyna mat didn't play a part in the rusting.

By trapping water under it?

I was always scared of dynamatting the pedal box for that reason.

[mattarm]

"this is really going well, I think I will for sure have everything off that I planned by 5"

Needless to say I only got half of what I had planned today and on the way went down several rat holes that will make thing more complicated.

[mattarm]

Found it to be easier to remove the complete wing as stated in several posts. It was made especially quick by first removing the shock tower as it simply falls out the side once the tower is out of the way.

[ORover]

Wow! That's impressive! Did any of the bolts break getting the roll cage off?

"this is really going well, I think I will for sure have everything off that I planned by 5"

Needless to say I only got half of what I had planned today and on the way went down several rat holes that will make thing more complicated.

[mattarm]

Outer cage came off pretty easy. One of the welded nuts did break loose requiring me to drill out the bolt. 4 bolts that fastened the inner hoop put up a fight but held together and came out without breaking. As for just about every other bolt on the body removal, I am guessing about 50% of them have broken.

Wow! That's impressive! Did any of the bolts break getting the roll cage off?

[ORover]

I'm tempted to have my cage removed and powdercoated black. The local body guy said he'd do it for $30 per hour plus materials. My concern was that many of the bolts would break and it would turn into a big, expensive project. I removed one of the bolts myself no problem. Can the cage come off in one piece or do you take it entirely apart? Thanks!


Outer cage came off pretty easy. One of the welded nuts did break loose requiring me to drill out the bolt. 4 bolts that fastened the inner hoop put up a fight but held together and came out without breaking. As for just about every other bolt on the body removal, I am guessing about 50% of them have broken.

[bjf]

Fred

I wrote a whole write up about it. You have to take the cage entirely apart to remove but this is what you want to do anyway as it would be too heavy and huge to come off in one piece. I removed mine by myself without an issue. You will need help to reinstall. The cage will expand when you remove it and you will literally need to ratchet strap and push and curse as you put it back together. I would personally replace all the bolts while you are at it. Most go stainless but I went and bought all new factory bolts and fiber washers. Not cheap but looks better in my opinion. You will also want to buy the right black sealant to seal the cage to the body. The rubber feet from a 90 do not fit and even if they did they won't seal anything. Now as for powdercoating the cage, make sure you have a company that really knows what they are doing. You need to strip that english powder coating off properly and make sure there are no impurities on the cage before you zinc prime and powder coat it. Not easy and if the pwoder coater doesn't know in advance, the cost can add up.

I thought you were selling the truck?

[mattarm]

What Barry said. I imagine that you can get it all off by yourself, but I have had an extra set of hands both times I have taken mine off. When I had mine powdercoated a few years ago I just took it to the closest place. While I did not have any issues with powdercoating coming off, I did have an issue with UV damage so I will be looking for someone that can provide powdercoating with UV protection. I did not use the factory bolts but rather went with a standard grade 8 bolt and a rubber/steel washer.

[130Tdi]

The regular grade 8 with 17mm hex head with the Mud Stuff Uk snap on head covers looks best. Recently brought one over from Berkshire Land Rover where the had installed a SD cage and they used these caps and it looked very factory/finished.

http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/Nut_Caps.shtml

[bjf]

The regular grade 8 with 17mm hex head with the Mud Stuff Uk snap on head covers looks best. Recently brought one over from Berkshire Land Rover where the had installed a SD cage and they used these caps and it looked very factory/finished.

http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/Nut_Caps.shtml

They blend well because they are black but overall I hate how they popup. Just too many of them in my opinion for the caps. Wish you could get black stainless bolts

[130Tdi]

My my. for someone with a Prius powered Hummer we certainly are all about aesthetics aren't we.

[bjf]

The cage looked cool on the 110 that I had and I am sure it makes the truck safer but the idea of cutting holes through the defender and prius bodies to mount it to the hummer for the cage mounts is something I could never stomach.

[mattarm]

Removed the wiring today. Of everything I have taken off the truck, this has me the most nervous when it comes time to reassemble. For the life of me I cannot figure out why some of the wiring was run the way that it was. Are there any pointers/improvements/recommendations/modifications that anyone has on reassembly?

[ORover]

By the looks of my stock 110, I would put all of the wiring in some sort of rubber conduit with rubber gaskets or protection anytime the wiring could get near the frame, a heat source or the outside elements. The rearward brake/trailer wiring is particularly exposed.


Removed the wiring today. Of everything I have taken off the truck, this has me the most nervous when it comes time to reassemble. For the life of me I cannot figure out why some of the wiring was run the way that it was. Are there any pointers/improvements/recommendations/modifications that anyone has on reassembly?

[mattarm]

Tub off and everything but the heater off of the bulkhead. Crappy cell phone pic.

[mattarm]

Is it common to want to throw away most of the parts you remove during disassembly?

[stage1v8]

I think it is very common to want to throw away everything as it is all old and probably either rusty or worn out. Just make sure you keep the VIN plate if you are doing a restore like some of the ones I have seen.

Not saying you are doing that. Just seems to be a theme from what I read.