110 200 tdi cruising speed

[CDNRover]

Hi, I,m trying to figure out the average highway cruising speed of my 110. I fitted a 1 to 1.2 disco transfercase but the gearing felt to high. It wasn't great accelerating but it was cheap on fuel. (8 litres / 100 km) At around 100-105 km/h is a wind barrier so strong that the engine wasn't powerfull enough to pick up speed. After this a fitted a transfercase from a military 110. A 1 to 1.6 wich is ideal for hauling heavy stuff. The 110 feels like a train. The problem now is the top speed and fuel consumption at highway speed. With a top speed of 95-100 km/h at 15 litres / 100 km. It seems like the 1 to 1.4 (original unit) might be the answer. Can anyone tell me what are the real figures for cruising speed and consumption?

[ajh]

Or you could fit an overdrive or look at R&P ratios or tire sizes, they'll all have some effect.

[grnrvrs]

1.2:1 and turn up the fuel a bit (after adding a pyrometer).

[Red90]

Yes, turn up the fueling... I run a 1.2 with an earlier box (0.83:1 5th). I can do 140 km/h before the power hits the wall. All I have is a little extra fueling and boost set to 15 psi.

I could also do 140 km/h when I had the 1.4, but it was revving the crap out of the engine. With the 1.2, sitting at 120 km/h all day is fine and comfortable on either the 32s or the 34s. This is real speed on a calbrated speedometer. I found no real difference in highway power when I changed transfer cases.

[CDNRover]

As I told you before it felt too tall as gearing (1.2) and as the vehicle is a 110 and I usualy bring all my tools in it + my dog, it felt like the first gear wasn't able to pull with the power output of a 200 tdi. When you say more fuel, what's inply exactly? I tought about having a bigger intercooler and have the turbo boost pressure higher as the fuel pressure. But unsure of what I have to do and I don't want to reduce the lifespan of my engine. 120km/h is a proper speed for me but I have to remain some acceleration. I live in Tewkesbury and it's in the mountain with hills and twisted road.. Need to be able to start fully loaded in that kinda uphill road.

[Red90]

What gearbox do you have? This is important. I need the prefix. 1.4 will probably suit your needs best.

What exhaust do you have?

Any other mods we need to know about? Tires, axle gearing??

Turning up the fueling is pretty easy. You should fit an EGT gauge first. Auberins sells great units on eBay that are low cost. A boost gauge is handy as well. Then read this http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php?topic=91564.0

You will never accelerate fast above 110.... It is just the laws of physics. You are driving a brick with a little engine.

[CDNRover]

Oh right, Tranny LT77 suffix, I dunno.. How do I find out? Exhaust is pretty straight. Front pipe is a regular one from Rover. I have an aftermarket silencer (like a cherry bomb; pretty straight without back pressure) and the rest is Rover type with the resonator at the rear wheel. The tires are the equivalent of 7.50X16 in BFGoodridge Mud type.The engine never been tuned up and there's a Kenlowe fan (heavy duty) up front. Normal Diff set up and the speed reading 'been done with a GPS. The truck is pretty straight. A 110 3 doors Ex-Mod.

[Jpayne]

On the LT77 reverse is up and to the left

[CDNRover]

On the LT77 reverse is up and to the left Weren't we talking about suffix?

[grnrvrs]

Yes, gearbox suffix.

After turning up the fuel a bit as described by Red, you should be able to comfortably cruise at highway speeds, even with a 1.2:1

[Jpayne]

I think I don't know what I'm talking about, but yes you were talking about suffix.

[Red90]

I assume then you have the "old" gearbox and not the one that was with the engine. This gives you a lower 5th gear (0.83:1 versus 0.77:1).... Anyway, If you can get under and get the serial number it helps. There are different 1st and 2nd as well depending on what you have. The prefix is what I asked for as that will tell the gearing. The suffix will tell us how weak or strong the box will be.....

Regardless if you felt 1st was too high with the 1.2 then I would go with the 1.4, which is the stock correct transfer case for the engine. The fueling increase will help with pull away in first, but only a little.

[CDNRover]

Serial number on it's way. I'll get back to you lads in a couple of hours. I never thought that the same gearbox (LT77) could have different gearing.. When you're talking about fueling, How do I make this? Is there a tread or a webpage to step by step tweak the fuel pump?

------ Follow up post added February 10th, 2010 09:30 AM ------

Also, The gearbox - T-case - engine - EVERYTHING is a melting pot of different vehicle..

[Red90]

When you're talking about fueling, How do I make this? Is there a tread or a webpage to step by step tweak the fuel pump?


Post #6 above has a link.

------ Follow up post added February 10th, 2010 08:56 AM ------

Also, The gearbox - T-case - engine - EVERYTHING is a melting pot of different vehicle..

For other people considering a 200TDI conversion.... Please buy the gearbox and transfer case that came with the engine. The gearing is designed to work with the engine and they are strong enough to deal with the torque. Other gearboxes may not do these things.

[CDNRover]

Darn it.. There's a sh*$ load of numbers on the tranny... Should it start with NRC... ? how many digit usualy?

------ Follow up post added February 10th, 2010 05:37 PM ------

Is it located on the LH or RH?

[Red90]

It should be like: 51A12345678E Lower right side of main gearbox case, below the filler plug in front of the side drain plug.

See this picture. http://217.34.53.228:9876/uploads/LT77.jpg The unpainted flat area below the fill plug.

[CDNRover]

Can you tell me what Rover intended to do with different gearing in the LT77? I guess it could be for Defender or Disco is it?

[Red90]

There are four different gear sets.

1) The early boxes (50A). These were used in the 4 cylinder pre-TDI engines.

2) The "military" boxes (51A). These had a lower 1st and 2nd than the 50A boxes for better off road use.

3) The LT77S boxes for the 200TDIs. These have a slightly lower first and high 2nd, 3rd and 5th than the 50A all designed to better match the new found power...

4) The LT77S boxes for the V8s. 1st is higher than the TDI boxes.

Also V8 and diesel boxes have different length input shafts and different bellhousings. Discoveries and Defenders also have different length input shafts and a different shift arrangement.

http://members.shaw.ca/red90/gears.html

There are also strength differences based on the suffix, http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_1.html#pa1 which makes a big difference on whether your box will die a horrible death of not.

[CDNRover]

the # 50A0212671B I'll check with the informations you forward me... Thanks a lot for everything so far! If anyone as any ideal about what I should do.. Go ahead!

------ Follow up post added February 11th, 2010 02:59 PM ------

I'm a bit confused about the gearing. Can someone take some time to explain me what's all those number? I've check on http://members.shaw.ca/red90/gears.html But I dunno if the gearing is taller then what I'm supposed to have with the 200tdi. If it's smaller it should be perfect for a 1.2 transfer-case .. I'm losing it!

------ Follow up post added February 11th, 2010 03:06 PM ------

Maybe I should look for another tranny? Is it possible to fit a R380 on a 200tdi? What would be involved? With a R380 I could fit my 1.2 t-case? Sh%@t me mate! I'll be rebuilding that rig again and again!

[Red90]

2nd, 3rd and 5th are lower gears than the correct box. 1st is a little higher. Unfortunately 1st is what is controlling your decision.

I would suggest a 1.4 with that gearbox. Be aware that the "B" suffix box that you have has very small layshaft bearings and it will fail eventually. If you hear the box becoming noisy, then is the time to plan for a new box as the bearings are on the way out.

You can do an R380, but I would still stick with the 1.4 regardless if you were unhappy with 1st. You need the short shaft version. They are $1700 new in the UK. There are ones coming out of BATUS regularly these days, but it is always fun figuring out if it is in good shape or not. The BATUS R380 all seem to be the 51A style. These have lower 1st and second compared to your current box.

------ Follow up post added February 11th, 2010 01:20 PM ------

tI'm a bit confused about the gearing. Can someone take some time to explain me what's all those number? I've check on http://members.shaw.ca/red90/gears.html

The numbers are the gear ratios. The number of times the engine turns for every revolution of the gearbox output shaft. Higher number is lower gearing.

[CDNRover]

Thanks mate, I'll think about it. I might go with the R380 road. What's the main differences between Lt77 & R380 ? I know the reverse gear isn't at the same location but apart from that? Would I be able to maintain the gearbox mount? is there a big load of customising to get the R380 in place?

[Red90]

The short bellhousing version goes straight in.

Note, though, that there are two choices of gearing in the short bellhousing versions. One, just like your current one and one like the 300TDI. The ones with your current gearing are only available in "J" suffix, which is weaker than the later "L" suffix.

Most R380s are long shaft, which will require relocation of the engine, and you need a diesel, Defender version to get it to work.

[dave_lucas]

Drool

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_119.html

[CDNRover]

Well, today, the Gods wanted me to do something about that T-case. I didn't listen to them messages. After loading the Rover with me tools I got on the road for my journey of work. Took a left turn at the exit of my alley then, after a mile or so a loud knock been eared. After swearing and beat the sh&%* of my back door to get my old mattress out, I crawled under the truck to find out what just happened.. I thought I would find a splatter of tranny blood or a pool of smelly EP90... But nothing apparent. So I drove back to my house in second gear low. While doing the mile back I could feel something wasn't alight and I parked the Rover and drove the Mazda to my job. Tomorrow I'll take the t-case out and put my 1.2 in place for the time I figure out what the hell happened. Them t-case seem simple as there's not much stuff in it but, I guess I'll have to take it in pieces to find the guilty bits! Or I could be mistaking and it could be an half shaft. It never happened to me to break a half shaft on a permanent 4 wheel drive Rover. I had that experience with my series III and there's no doubt when this thing happens. You loose propulsion. Is it the same thing with the defender? I mean I can park the Rover on it's parking break and it won't move of an inch.. So i think it my be the transfer-case.. Any ideas ? Might have nothing to do with it.. But.... A couple of days before what happened, I got stuck at a friend alley and I had to use the low range to get out of my tricky situation. I had drifted out of the alley and found myself stuck in snow facing downward. I tried to rock the Rover a bit and bam! the transfer-case move (might have been the first signal from the Gods) in neutral. So I put it back in low range difflock. Same thing happened (persuasive them Gods!). And a third time! By then the Rover was freed from the snow and off I go. I had to use the low range with difflock before and it worked just fine. The lever are set properly and It's fully moving from low to high and difflock to ''unlock''. I'd like to have your thoughts on the subject.

[mikeslandrover]

Drool

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_119.html

Indeed, transmission oil cooler:cool:
Strong, different ratios available

I run a 1.211 transfer box in my 110, mostly OK but you have to stick it in 4th and floor it for some inclines but 60+ mph is doable in 4th if you need to, and I usually get over 30 imperial miles to an imperial gallon (they're bigger than US gallons) :) so on the whole I'm going to stick with the 1.211 ex disco TD5 auto transfer box. It was all that was available in Southern Spain on the way back from Morocco

[Red90]

If you need diff lock to move, then something is broken in one of the axles. It is pretty rare to kill a transfer case.

[mikeslandrover]

I think the issue was that the transfer box was jumping out of gear. Does the 110 need to be in diff-lock to move on the flat or will it move OK with the transfer box diff unlocked. unless the rear half shafts are broken the handbrake will still work fine. If the truck won't move unless the diff is locked it would point to one of the front half shafts or CV joints being grenaded.

------ Follow up post added February 14th, 2010 09:19 PM ------

If you need diff lock to move, then something is broken in one of the axles. It is pretty rare to kill a transfer case.

I've sadly killed two:eek: but one was rebuildable, the other spat some teeth out and I've yet to investigate the contents of that one. Lots of sparkley oil came out when drained though

[CDNRover]

So far the difflock didn't need to be engage. I stripped down the front axle and both half shaft are al right. I'm taking the front diff out today. There's a huge amount of play between the pinion and the crown wheel. I had the front diff checked in a diffshop a couple of week before and they tighten that to remove the play. I can now rotate it +/- 1/2 a turn..... I might have found the problem. I will put back the 1.2 transfer case anyway. I need to do a 2500km trip for a contract. Last time I did that it cost me 15litres per 100km with the 1.6 . Before that I did the same run with the 1.2 and it returned 8litres per 100km..... By the way, if anyone of you lads have gaiters on their swivel ball, think about removing them if they're old. Mine were keeping shit in it instead. Water and sand mostly. But I tell you, a good quantity! I will now need to remove completely the swivel balls to clean and maybe renew the seals as they were sanded....

[mikeslandrover]

Have you drained the diff oil? what came out with the oil.
Sounds as though you might be a few teeth short of a full set on the crown wheel.

[CDNRover]

Not yet, I first need to take the front propshaft out and checked. Might be an universal joint. But I doubt it.

[CDNRover]

Well, I found out the problem. There's a missing tooth on the sidegear of the front differential. Since the front axle is stripped I'll be renewing about everything. Still have a problem tough, just can find another gear... Anyone can help me out with that?