rubicon or d 90

[jonathan]

hello im jonathan and im new to the forum
im intrested in off road only this 4x4 will not be my daily driver
at first i was leaning toward the rubicon because i dident think i could afford a defender but thier both around 30000 so anny info eather way would help

thanks

[m.michaels]

I would rather push my Land Rover than drive a Jeep . . .

Hands down where can you get a vehicle that will go anywhere, and do anything.

That is the vehicle of choice for SAS, most of the free world's military, the 75th Ranger Regiment, and many SF teams in 5th Special Forces Group. They have field tested this thing - and it goes where others won't. My buddies over in Iraq and Afghanistan love the Defenders. One of my friends in Africa is still driving his Defender that hit a land mine . . .

IMHO I could not think of a cooler more capable vehicle on the market than the D90.

Good Luck -

[benh]

This is an absolute no-brainer. It's kinda like saying " I really can't decide if I want to pick up a new Ferrari or this old Chevy Nova?!" D-90's are the most capable 4WD vehicle from the factory bar none (w/ the exception of the Hummer H1, but who wants to spend $110k on a new 4x4!!). a stock d-90 will eat a fully equipped Rubicon for lunch, any day of the week. More power, more clearance, more truck. Jeeps are great to tool around in, maybe head to the beach, barrel through rain drenched parking lots, rock crawl on neighborhood curbs... :grin but the real off-roaders know which truck gets the job done. oh and did I mention you be the ENVY of EVERY jeep owner. I love knowing what they are thinking when I drive by "Man oh man why did I buy a jeep??!" LMAO.... :party

[waveridin1959]

A friend of mine just bought a rubicon. I'd put my D90 up against it anyday. I have driven it a few times off road and they are nice......but not 30K nice. You are paying for the Rubicon decal on the hood. Buy something that would be worth it.

[Glenn_Guinto]

...a stock d-90 will eat a fully equipped Rubicon for lunch, any day of the week.

Now, now...that may be a bit pushing it. :)

Both are very capable trucks, but am sure as you expected, you will get biased answers here. Unfortunately, it's one of those "if you have to ask..." things. Practicality-wise, you have to look at it this way...

"If you have $30K, would it be better spent on a 7 yr old (at least) used capable 4x4 with quite a few mileage or would your $30K be better spent on an equally (if not more) capable BRAND NEW 4x4?"

If you ask us that question, our answer is pretty obvious...we're driving 90s not Jeeps Rubicons... :) I guess my point is, you have to be a real big enthusiasts (i.e. you've been drooling for a D90) to plunk down that kind of cash on a 7-10 year old high-mileage (rusty in some cases) truck. And that is just what we are here in this board.

I'm sure you'll get a completely different answer if you were to post this on Jeeps Unlimited BBS. Yeah, I've heard them all. Even prior to the launch of the Rubicon, they're biggest arguement is, "the money you save in the price difference between a TJ and a D90 can be put in mods that will beat the shit out of any D90 on the trails."

So, if you have to ask my friend... I would say go with the Rubicon... a real good, true "out of the box" off-roader.

[putting flame suit on :cool: ]

[BarryO]

My wife's family loves to tell the story about how one day, a friend of one of the boys came to visit. He was known as a good mechanic, and was out helping one of the guys with his car. So my future father-in-law stops by to talk, and asks his expert opinion on what are the most reliable cars to get. Without even looking up from the engine bay, he blurted out "new ones", and kept on working.

'never driven a Rangler, but a D-90 will be 7+ yrs. old, so you have to expect it to need new parts and such from time to time. If that's OK with you I'd say go for it. If you want to spend $30K on something and not have to spend anymore on big repair bills for awhile, then maybe you should go with a new vehicle.

[DJ Menasco]

[putting flame suit on :cool: ]

Yeah, you better Glenn! You're going to get lit-up like a Christmas tree! :grin Actually, I don't think it could have been said any better than what Glenn said below:


If you ask us that question, our answer is pretty obvious...we're driving 90s not Jeeps Rubicons... :) I guess my point is, you have to be a real big enthusiasts (i.e. you've been drooling for a D90) to plunk down that kind of cash on a 7-10 year old high-mileage (rusty in some cases) truck. And that is just what we are here in this board.

DJ

[chrisvonc]

Lets be realistic here gang... The new Rubicon is a very capabile wheeler, new and fully warrantied from the factory. The lockers, the HD equipment, all of it. You will be hard pressed to find a D90 still under warranty and none will carry a 7 year warranty when you throw lockers, new lift, HD axles, driveshafts, and so on. We almost bought one ourselfs when they first came out.

I love Defenders. I would never trade mine for a Rubicon. But if you have $30K+ in hand to buy a wheeler, there are the "pros" to the Rubicon that make it a contender for some. If I had $30K, I would buy another kick ass modified D90, but thats me.

[Bowtracer]

I do not own a 90.[ I do own a d110 ] But if I were single with no kidds I would in a heartbeat!!!! I have owned a cj & many bronco's & pickups. Nothing that I have seen goes through as many different conditions like a Rover. I have a close friend in Africa & he runs a safari company. He runs Toy Helixs & Rovers & the Rovers are allways pulling out the the Toy's. If you have a little extra cash & it is a second car GO FOR IT! You will not regret it.
Peter

[redrover]

Hi Johnathan, Im with glenn on his points. You should know exackly what your going to use it for before you plunk down 30G. Anyway, I hope you dont think im bashing the D because that is all i will ever drive. It doesnt matter where you are-people will say something nice about your ride. BUT out of the box capable? The D doesnot come with fr/rr lockers. The drivetrain{axles/cv} are not up for large tires. You will bend your vulnerable fr bumper. You will bend your vulnerable side sills. You will oil can the the frame. You will wonder if the Brits ever new anything about wiring. Did I mention stock articulation ?-Ha Ha what articulation. It takes about 500Watts on the stereo to hear anything over the factory softtop flapping on the highway. Lift kits are primitive compared to Jeep. AND I can drive almost 140 miles at 8200ft elevation on a full tank of gas. That said- rovers rock.
I would not bet on my D in its early days and stock as more capable than the the RUBICON. Unless you are talking about it being more capable of picking up babes.
PS ask anyone with a built,capable 90, what they have into it. probably close to 50,000bucks. counting mods and replacement parts.
JP

[rover4x4]

get a solid axle yota and weld the diffs a cheap lift and some grips you can do anything a D-90 or the Rubi can. that said I will keep the 90 for a little while longer.

[wicks]

You need to watch this movie: http://www.lrfaq.org/BBC-TopGearLandRover.wmv

[jbird]

Great movie. Thanks for the link.

[rover4x4]

nuff said

[norros]

Benjamin,

"rock crawl on neighborhood curbs... "

Too Fu$&ing funny!

Glenn & some of the others defending Jeeps:

Truly disappointing....truly.
(have most of you ever been INSIDE a new Jeep, rubikon or not ? It's a FREAKING GIRLS CAR, doesn't even FEEL like a truck). Uh...yeah.

--------------->

One thing not said, that I say to a lot of people who 'razz' (for lack of a better word this early) me at work, and say envious things like: "yeah, you really NEED that" or "you must have a nice set of luggage for that roof rack"... IS that one thing that Jeeps, 'Yotas, or a great majority of other capable/semi-capable off-road vehicles is that the Defender 90 unlike the others, on top of it's magic off-road is that is has CHARACTER .

And that's the one thing that's important. And that's the one thing that you will NEVAH, EVAH get in a JEEP.

Nicholas

[chrisvonc]

Truly disappointing....truly.
(have most of you ever been INSIDE a new Jeep, rubikon or not ? It's a FREAKING GIRLS CAR, doesn't even FEEL like a truck). :) I have... We were considering buying one for my wife until we sat in it and then the wind left her sails for it. Dont know if something else was going on there or what because shes always hated the D90 seats but that was easily corrected with a seat of Courbeus.

[dmarchand]

Unfortunately, I have to ditto JP and Glenn. Looking at the total package, $ for $, your getting more for your money with the Rube. If that's what your concerned with. You can't compare a 7 year old vehicle to a brand new one with warranty and stock lockers. All that thing needs is a lift and decent bumpers and tires. And it's a real trail machine.

BUT! I wouldn't have bought my D and modified it as much if I wasn't totally enamored by Defenders in general. I have long since given up the notion that I could return any value or believe it is an economical vehicle. That's why I bought an Outback wagon... I like it for the truck that it is, the look and feel, and the exclusivity of it. It's just a flat out, more fun vehicle than a rube or anything else for that matter. Other "heep" owners know that, as well as "dummer" owners, etc.

You'll find us Defender owners to be a deeply devoted bunch. Plain and simple.

[dante18]

Want to buy a Jeep OK they are great. Want to buy a lifestyle Get a D!

Follow-up Post:

I am sure all of us here know exactly what I mean when I say "lifestyle".

[Glenn_Guinto]

Want to buy a Jeep OK they are great. Want to buy a lifestyle Get a D!



Well said Dante.

Glenn & some of the others defending Jeeps:

Truly disappointing....truly.


Nicholas, your take on this is exactly my point to Jonathan. We're all enthusiasts here and your response just proves it. :)

I'm in no way bashing the D90.... Hell I'm crazy about it. Just stepping out of the "enthusiasts mindset" and giving Jonathan the reality in this all.

Yeah, you better Glenn! You're going to get lit-up like a Christmas tree! :grin

Nick is starting to light my fire DJ.... :grin

[norros]

LOL...

;)


Nicholas

[snuffer]

I bought my '95 D90 in Nov. '01 and paid more for it than what it sold for new.

What will the '04 Rubicon be worth in six years?

I bought a new Jeep Grand Wagoneer back before Chrysler bought the brand name. It was the most poorly built and least dependable new vehicle I have ever owned. Jeep was unwilling and probably unable to make it right. I decided then that I would never buy another Jeep product. Others have different opinions on Jeeps and rightly so, they're just not for me.

I have no experience with the newer Jeep products, but as long as Defender parts are available I will continue to drive it.

[OCD90]

I'd only add...that while you're looking at $30K for a used D-90 vs. $30K for a new Rubicon...

What'll your 7-year old Rubicon be worth vs a 14 y/o D-90?

Jeep resale is for crap. You'll have a used Jeep...worth 30-40% of what you paid for it. The 90'll be worth at least what it went for new (and what you paid for it now), if not more, even then.

[WBDISCO]

Keep in mind that ini 10 years you can import Defenders legally, so technically they probably won't be worth as much.

Brad

[Glenn_Guinto]

Keep in mind that ini 10 years you can import Defenders legally, so technically they probably won't be worth as much.

Brad

Actually in some states (NJ being one) you can start to do that next year. AFAIK, Defenders were first produced in 1980. With NJ's 25-year rule, one can import a 1980 D110 for cheap and update the looks and viola!!! - you have a legit 110. I'm sure one can also title a modern 110 as a 1980... :naughty :evilfinge

[chrisvonc]

We are also talking a rather large amount of $$ for a D90. Look how many completly set up trucks recently have gone in the low to mid-20's. Remember, he is looking for a truck for 4x4 duty only. It doesnt have to be a showroom princess. and he can right off save $5K-$6K which could also factor heavily. Whats the current pricing look like on used Rubicons?

[Eric Siepmann]

"Keep in mind that ini 10 years you can import Defenders legally, so technically they probably won't be worth as much"

I don't know about that. Your talking apples to oranges really. RHD vs LHD NAS originals to imports.
A 25 year old defender would take some coin to bring it up to date. I really don't see too many coming into the country to affect the NAS price.

[chrism]

C'mon Jonathan! Why don't you come clean and admit that you already bought a Rubicon and you just started this thread to rile us Land Rover loving people up. :nono

[norros]

I don't think his name is Jonathan at all..

I think it's YOUSEF !


LOL...

Just kidding.

Nicholas

[chrism]

Benjamin,

(have most of you ever been INSIDE a new Jeep, rubikon or not ? It's a FREAKING GIRLS CAR, doesn't even FEEL like a truck). Uh...yeah.




Mine has a flower Vase on the dash.....But that doesn't make it a FREAKING GIRLS CAR :girl. However, lf you look at the lugnuts on the Jeep...they're way too girlie compared to the massive nuts on Land Rovers. ;)

[BarryO]

Keep in mind also that a new Defender is supposed to be available here in 2007: http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0407_sketchpad/index.html 'don't know how good this one will be, but it will probably eat into the market value of Defenders currently in circulation.

In any case, the D-90 is still the coolest and most exclusive car I've ever owned, even compared to the Prsche I had when I was a city-dweller. I've had grown men asked me to adopt them when they found out I owned one. ;)

[jonathan]

thanks for all your help cant wait to get my defender

do they make a soft to for defenders that is like a half cab like a truck looking thing?

[chrisvonc]

Yes, one company called Badger Coackworks (http://www.badgercoachworks.com/) makes outstanding quality replacement tops, exclusively for Land Rovers. They make a drop curtain, 1/2 tonneau, and you can get their strapless bikini top or go with the full blown half-cab top.

Here is a pictures of the setup with the bikini top:
http://www.gotmud.org/rovers/d90/d90_03.jpg
http://www.gotmud.org/rovers/d90/d90_06.jpg

And here are a few of the real half-cab:
http://www.d-90.com/bio/dennisw1.jpg

[thor]

late but i might put in my 2c...
here down under the d90 just came back last year at AUD$53k. yes! that much! :'(
had it come here earlier and been at a cheaper price i would have got it over my jeep tj at the drop of a hat.
part of the LR lifestyle is the uniqueness of the vehicle (tj is unique over here), and it is the ultimate for my kind of breed - the ultimate fiddler.
i'm sure all d90 owners here fit that profile. :)
without trying to sway you, you have to look and see if you see yourself in one.

[Cyborg]

Jon, CHeckout a thread in the Misc Chit Chat section called "Head turning D-90 stories" There you will find many stories from us owners concerning the appeal of the Defender. As far as appeal there really is no comparison with any Jeep product. When it comes to outright performance compared to a Rubicon with factory lockers there may be some room for argument.
I found my '97 with moderate mileage, one inch lift, 33inch tires, winch and ARB bumper, snorkel,rocksliders, two tops and various undercarriage armor and bumperettes AND ARB air lockers front and rear for $29k. You can find a smoking hot setup that beats the Rubicon for a little less $$.

Just before Jeep came out with the Rubicon a friend (Smartass) told me that for $29K he could setup a Jeep that would totally compete with my D90. I responded by asking him when he was done what would he own? Yep....it would still be...... just a Jeep.

D90 is a lifestyle for sure, join us!!

Cyborg