series build update

[1962siia88]

Hey all:

I haven't been posting too much about my series project lately as work has been keeping me busy. I have made some progress and will post a link to pics.

I have switched directions on my engine/trans and have decided to go with a gen III gm 5.3l (unless a deal on a 6.0 presents itself!) with an np435 with the stock series transfer case. I just got off the phone with Timm Cooper and he is going to be making another production run of his np435 to series t case adapter. I'm really looking forward to having a bullet proof setup!

I recently mounted the p38 steering box and built my steering column. Everything fits just right and I'm happy with how it came out. I'll post more as I make progress.

Daniel

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/crockettbrat/xnn%20project/?action=view&current=P1010074.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2F s305.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn227%2Fcrockettbr at%2Fxnn%2520project%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current% 3DP1010075.jpg

[D90user]

Look at that! nice work. Was it a big pain to get the brake MC to clear the hood?

Sounds like you are on a good path. That was a lot of work to get the series tranny to mate and it may have exploded at any moment. I bet you will appreciate the extra power also.

[1962siia88]

No the mc was really easy and it worked/fit on my first attempt. Of course I had access to the one on the Catahoula 109 that Timm just built, so I was pretty confident I could do it.

Daniel

[outfield]

What are you using for front springs?

[o2batsea]

What are the locking hubs for? You do not need them on a Series.

I am going to try to mate the NP435 to an R380. I think I have it figured out.

[1962siia88]

What are you using for front springs?


I'm using 88" rear springs in the front. I had to lengthen the frame horns and move the front spring frame bushing back. Standard Timm Cooper and others style spring over.


Daniel

[1962siia88]

What are the locking hubs for? You do not need them on a Series.

I am going to try to mate the NP435 to an R380. I think I have it figured out.

You are correct that I dont need them but I had them on my series before and will have them on there with the spring over too. There are different schools of though on the effectiveness of fwh's. Some claim less wear and tear, some claim better mileage, some claim they are bad for the front axle, etc,etc.

With the spring over my front drive shaft will have some fairly extreme angles. Timm Cooper is going to build both my front and rear drive shafts. The front will be made out of a disco 1 front drive shaft modified to allow greater travel and it will have stonger u joints that will allow steeper angles. Not sure exactly what he is going to do, but I do know that I only want that drive shaft spinning when I need it and not all the time. That's why I'm going with the hubs.

I found my chevy granny version of the np435. Its shipping from Arizona today and I bought my 2003 lm7 engine (5.3l) and get to pick it up tomorrow! Now I need to wait for the machine shop to make the new adapter. Not sure how long that will take but Timm is dealing with them this week, so hopefully not too long. If anyone else is interested in getting one of these adapters now is the time to ask. Timm is only making as many as are pre ordered. PM me if seriously interested and I'll pass along your contact info to Timm Cooper or contact him directly if you have his contact info. (the adapter is to mate the NP435 to the stock series transfer case)

Daniel

[phoenix37]

This is very cool. Please keep posting! I wish I had this kind of talent.

[o2batsea]

I'm using a ford NP 435. It has a really long output shaft which will be easy to machine for the R380 adapter/input shaft ( I have the fully splined one). That leaves just a simple adapter plate to fab between the NP 435 and the R380.
I'm going with Ford power.

[cgalpin]

Very interesting. Just so I understand it, you are going SOA and using rear springs on the front? I assume this lengthens the wheelbase? I'm curious by how much and how this affects the fit of the wheels in the wheel well. I know you are gaining a few inches of lift from the SOA - 6 maybe? - but doesn't the wheel position still matter?

And on the driveline, I don't know crap about these other engine and tranny's. How does the overall length come out, and position of shifter knobs etc. Just wondering how many tunnel or bulkhead changes you'll need to make.

[1962siia88]

Very interesting. Just so I understand it, you are going SOA and using rear springs on the front? I assume this lengthens the wheelbase? I'm curious by how much and how this affects the fit of the wheels in the wheel well. I know you are gaining a few inches of lift from the SOA - 6 maybe? - but doesn't the wheel position still matter?

And on the driveline, I don't know crap about these other engine and tranny's. How does the overall length come out, and position of shifter knobs etc. Just wondering how many tunnel or bulkhead changes you'll need to make.


The wheel base will stay the same. I lengthened the frame horns up front and made new frame bushing sleeves for the rear of the spring that are farther back than stock. This accomodates the longer spring and keeps the axle in the stock location. The spring perches I used on my axles have multiple holes for the center spring bolt, so I am actually moving my axles back 1" both front and back.

There will definately be some changes to the tunnel and bulkhead. The passenger footwell needs to be smaller to fit the v8. I drilled out spot welds and removed the left hand side (verticle piece) of the passenger footwell. I then cut out 2.75" of the footwell, following its standard shape. So far I've got the verticle piece clamped back on but haven't welded yet as I want to get my tranny and tcase together and mounted to see how much I need to change the tunnel and the center verticle panel of the bulkhead.

As far as the lift it looks like I got 4.5" both front and back, plus I went from 235/85/16 to 35/12.5/15. I'll try to get some pics of the wheels in the wheel wells. The back looks perfect, the front is good enough, but if I hadn't moved the axles back both would have looked off.

Novak has good info about the engine and tranny I'm using if you are interested. Should be a pretty bullet proof set up. The last thing I'm thinking of doing is selling my two fairey overdrives and buying a santana overdrive. It will give this thing some legs on the freeway and Timm is running one behind his 6.0l lq9, muncie gearbox, series transfer case setup with no problems.

This has been a giant learning process for me. Its my first time doing any kind of major modification to a vehicle. Timm Cooper has been helping me through this both in person and over the phone so I'm confident that its going to work and be a great rig for me.

I'll keep posting updates as I can. Thanks.

Daniel

[cgalpin]

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds awesome and looking forward to seeing the progress

[phoenix37]

Charles if you search Timm Cooper on here you will see several examples of trucks where he has done SOA with rear springs in the front. This is one example.

He does amazing stuff and happens to be a very nice guy that is also generous with his time. He once walked me thru the entire process of adding power steering to my series step by step and part by part over the phone.

[JSBriggs]

The reason for running the 88 rear springs in the front is to allow for greater articulation. It also has a little softer ride as well.

This one has 88 rears but is still sprung under.

-Jeff

[cgalpin]

Yes I have heard of him, and seen some of his work first hand. Matt Moran's truck was originally done by Timm, although he has taken it further.

[phoenix37]

Yes I have heard of him, and seen some of his work first hand. Matt Moran's truck was originally done by Timm, although he has taken it further.

Any pics?

[o2batsea]

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...3DP1010075.jpg (http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/crockettbrat/xnn%20project/?action=view&current=P1010074.jpg#%21oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F% 2Fs305.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn227%2Fcrockett brat%2Fxnn%2520project%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26curren t%3DP1010075.jpg)

I am lost. What are all the engine adapters supposed to be doing? Why not a regular old GM bellhousing ? If you have a GM pattern NP435 it should be a straight bolt up, no?
I would not use a Series TC, but that's just me.

[JSBriggs]

Any pics?


The one on the trailer.

-Jeff

[o2batsea]

And on the driveline, I don't know crap about these other engine and tranny's. How does the overall length come out, and position of shifter knobs etc. Just wondering how many tunnel or bulkhead changes you'll need to make.

If he uses the Series TC it should come out just about the same as far as position goes, but the original tunnel and other tins will have to be completely redone. The engine and the transmission in particular are larger and won't fit under the Rover sheet metal.

I did my first V8 conversion using aluminum Treadbrite. I had to cut the seat box for the Dana TC. I think the future version will have Morse type cables actuating the TC. That way, I can put the controls anywhere and not have to f**k up my seat box. I am also gonna swap in an R380.

[cgalpin]

http://gallery.lhsw.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=mar_2009&id=IMG_0448
http://gallery.lhsw.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=mar_2009_from_ed&id=DSC_0251

more in that album

[1962siia88]

I am lost. What are all the engine adapters supposed to be doing? Why not a regular old GM bellhousing ? If you have a GM pattern NP435 it should be a straight bolt up, no?
I would not use a Series TC, but that's just me.


I am using a chevy bellhousing and 11" clutch. The only adapter will be between the tcase and np435. I was originally trying to go with an atlas/gm 5 cyl engine and the stock series gearbox and tcase. I was making an adapter for that but got greedy for horsepower and technical support and switched to the v8.

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Its looking great Daniel. Maybe I should drop my 100" off so there could be some progress on mine too!

-Jeff

[UnfrozenCaveman]

I think the future version will have Morse type cables actuating the TC. That way, I can put the controls anywhere and not have to f**k up my seat box. I am also gonna swap in an R380.

Aha! So that's what those are called...the push/pull cables, right?

The last time I was at Pendy's place we finished adapting a D2 transfer case cable & lever to work the diff lock on the LT95.

We've done a similar "revision" of the front springs / mount per Timm's advice too. Though mine's not a spring over.

[o2batsea]

I am using a chevy bellhousing and 11" clutch. The only adapter will be between the tcase and np435. I was originally trying to go with an atlas/gm 5 cyl engine and the stock series gearbox and tcase. I was making an adapter for that but got greedy for horsepower and technical support and switched to the v8.

Daniel

Smart move. I'm not saying that you plan isn't a good one, but I have a suspicion that you will, once you get it out there on the road, wish that you had put in something other than the Rover T Case.

Aha! So that's what those are called...the push/pull cables, right?

Teleflex Morse 4300 series cables. Jamestown Distributors (https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=741&title=Teleflex+Universal+Control+Cables) is my go to supplier of all things boaty

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Teleflex Morse 4300 series cables. Jamestown Distributors (https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=741&title=Teleflex+Universal+Control+Cables) is my go to supplier of all things boaty

Well, you learn sumpthin' new every day.

Now I can stop referring to them as "...you know, those push/pull boaty cables" :cool:

Thanks,

KAA

[1962siia88]

Smart move. I'm not saying that you plan isn't a good one, but I have a suspicion that you will, once you get it out there on the road, wish that you had put in something other than the Rover T Case.



Teleflex Morse 4300 series cables. Jamestown Distributors (https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=741&title=Teleflex+Universal+Control+Cables) is my go to supplier of all things boaty

Well the good news is that I'm not building this rig as an all around do everything truck. It's job will be to off road well and get to the trail efficiently. I'm also sitting on my dedicated family truckster. It's next in line and it will be geared for better road driving. It's a 1969 109" sw sitting on a 110 chassis. It's getting a similar engine but will get a 4l60e transmission and Timm's blingy new transfer case. It will cruise freeway speeds plus all day! That will require swmbo to be appeased somehow but I'm working on that too. :)

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Smart move. I'm not saying that you plan isn't a good one, but I have a suspicion that you will, once you get it out there on the road, wish that you had put in something other than the Rover T Case.


Trying not to excessively clutter up Daniels thread, but what do you feel is wrong with the series Tcase? I haven't seen an issue with either durability or noise.

-Jeff

[outfield]

What axle upgrades are you going to make to handle the V-8?

[o2batsea]

Trying not to excessively clutter up Daniels thread, but what do you feel is wrong with the series Tcase? I haven't seen an issue with either durability or noise.

-Jeff

For SOA conversion, the forward position of the front output flange might make for a too steep angle. The Series case has virtually no aftermarket support for lower gearing. Other TCs have a wide variety of gearing options. They also leak like crazy. The shift lever is weird.

[1962siia88]

What axle upgrades are you going to make to handle the V-8?

I'm going to run the stock (well stock 95 rrc ) axles until I break them. The rear will have an ARB and the front will have a 4 pinion p38 diff. Running 4.7 ring and pinions.



"For SOA conversion, the forward position of the front output flange might make for a too steep angle. The Series case has virtually no aftermarket support for lower gearing. Other TCs have a wide variety of gearing options. They also leak like crazy. The shift lever is weird."


Well we'll see. I'm not doing anything that hasn't been done before successfully. As far as gearing goes I'm more worried about being too low than anything. From what I can tell my 1st gear low final drive ratio will be 73:1 approximately. My high range will allow freeway speeds but I'll be running somewhere around 3k rpms plus, which is why I want an overdrive.

Thanks for all the input folks, and sure Jeff bring that 100" down here, oh wait, I'm out of room, sorry!

I got the engine home today! Had to drive to Sacramento and back and man that thing is heavy. My poor engine hoist is tired and used to 4 bangers.

I attached a few pics from today. My drive way is too narrow to get a good shot of the wheel in the wheel well but I tried.

[KevinNY]

Bill, have you done a conversion before or are you still just at the planning stage? I'd say Timm Cooper has a pretty damn good rep as to what works.

Daniel,
Swapping the series 4.70 R&P over to 24 spline stock carriers is just creating extra work for yourself, you will quickly have issues. I just broke a 4.70 front R&P (it was in there when I bought the set of pre built ARB's) with my little 100 hp, 180ftlbs diesel and I while I wheel the heck out of it, I do not beat on it or get it hopping. My rear 4.75 is holding up and I have a spare reverse cut 4.75 to put in the front next week. Build your diffs once and be done. Lucky8 has good prices on the Ashcroft gear sets.

KB

[o2batsea]

Bill, have you done a conversion before or are you still just at the planning stage? I'd say Timm Cooper has a pretty damn good rep as to what works.Yes I have a pretty whopping huge IH 345/T19/Dana 20 mess in the 109 as of now. Power steering and a big rad.

Agree that Timm's stuff works for him. He doesn't have the final answer in Series V8 conversion tech. I'll just say that his builds are not my cup of tea.

While I have been planning to put a TDi in it, I already have a Ford 302 (now308) that is brand new and just sitting in the barn. It was gonna go in a now-defunct jet boat project. It will go in the 109 with an NP435 and the only question mark now is whether I will re use the Dana 20 or try to adapt the R380. I think I have the R380 question worked out so if I can make it happen I'll do that. I am going to a coiler chassis, so I won't have the same issues with the SOA conversion.

[KevinNY]

I didn't realize that Bill and have new respect for your opinions. There are so many guys with a few parts, fewer dollars and big dreams wanting a conversion out there. Glad to see you are not one of them.

[o2batsea]

My high range will allow freeway speeds but I'll be running somewhere around 3k rpms plus, which is why I want an overdrive.

Maybe an Ashcroft "high ratio" case? It's supposed to be a little better on the highway and with that lump you will have plenty of "go" even with a taller high. 3 grand at speed will be rather annoying.

------ Follow up post added December 10th, 2010 09:03 AM ------

I didn't realize that Bill and have new respect for your opinions. There are so many guys with a few parts, fewer dollars and big dreams wanting a conversion out there. Glad to see you are not one of them.

Yeah well I REALLY want to make it a double cab 127 Hi Cap drop side hybrid coiler so I can haul boats and Kayaks. Any assistance greatly appreciated.

[1962siia88]

Bill, have you done a conversion before or are you still just at the planning stage? I'd say Timm Cooper has a pretty damn good rep as to what works.

Daniel,
Swapping the series 4.70 R&P over to 24 spline stock carriers is just creating extra work for yourself, you will quickly have issues. I just broke a 4.70 front R&P (it was in there when I bought the set of pre built ARB's) with my little 100 hp, 180ftlbs diesel and I while I wheel the heck out of it, I do not beat on it or get it hopping. My rear 4.75 is holding up and I have a spare reverse cut 4.75 to put in the front next week. Build your diffs once and be done. Lucky8 has good prices on the Ashcroft gear sets.

KB

Thanks for the advice. The rear diff will be ARB with great basin 4.7 gears. The front carrier is planned to be a p38 4 pinion carrier with the later style s3 ring and pinion, but maybe I should just go large as you suggest. I agree with do it once do it right for sure.

Daniel

------ Follow up post added December 10th, 2010 09:57 AM ------

Maybe an Ashcroft "high ratio" case? It's supposed to be a little better on the highway and with that lump you will have plenty of "go" even with a taller high. 3 grand at speed will be rather annoying.


I am definitely considering the hrtc as an option. I've conversed with Teriann W. who has one in her 109 dormy. The gearing is really tough to decide on especially since I dont have much experience with the different options. I know I want a low crawling ratio and I know I want freeway speeds. I also know my budget and that I may have to do things in stages.

Going with the stock tc and then adding the od a bit later is currently my favorite option. Of course if the right deal presents itself I will jump on it. I dont think I'd go too far wrong with either of these two options.

So my trans should be here on Tues, then I get to figure out which bellhousing I need and can go buy my flywheel and clutch and start figuring out how all this will fit in my little 88".

Thanks again everyone for good info.

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Comments/observations:

It looks like you got the cable throttle version, so that should be a bit cheaper/easier than the wire version.

Your passenger footwell looks a bit bare. What heater are you running?

LOVE the Jackmans BTW.

-Jeff

[KevinNY]

Whatever you end up with you are going to have a very short high angle rear prop shaft. I use a TW double cardon shaft. They used to make them with an aluminum adaptor to the transfer case but that adaptor was made for an LT 230, it was too big for a series output. I made some measurements and Tom Woods turned down one of the adaptors so I could mate the double cardon end with the output on my HRTC. Not sure if the new stuff he uses will work for you or not but I suspect some minor machining may be neccessary.

[1962siia88]

Comments/observations:

It looks like you got the cable throttle version, so that should be a bit cheaper/easier than the wire version.

Your passenger footwell looks a bit bare. What heater are you running?

LOVE the Jackmans BTW.

-Jeff

The 88" has always had the round smiths ankle burner. Works fine with the truck cab, but I'm considering a switch since I've already cut into my bulkhead. I've got a kodiak, but its going in the 109, I've also got the larger rectangular smiths recirc, and I've got a late 2a smiths forced air with the distribution box. I'm not going to decide which one I'm using until I know how the sheet metal is all going to come together on the bulkhead and tunnel.

Yes the engine has the mechanical pull for the TB. Much more straight forward. I've got the cable for it too. I am really glad I went this route instead of trying to make the electronic pedal look good in my cab.

I couldn't pass up the Jackmans. I also love crusty old subarus too(notice the lifted brat in some of my pics;) I bought a dead 109 from Lea Maggie last year after perusing his mega pile up outside of Reno. The Jackmans were there and I asked how much extra he wanted for them and he gave me my choice between them or the stock 109 wheels. Then I heard about the Les Schaub Tires super deal on powder coating wheels. Bling!


D

------ Follow up post added December 10th, 2010 04:22 PM ------

Whatever you end up with you are going to have a very short high angle rear prop shaft. I use a TW double cardon shaft. They used to make them with an aluminum adaptor to the transfer case but that adaptor was made for an LT 230, it was too big for a series output. I made some measurements and Tom Woods turned down one of the adaptors so I could mate the double cardon end with the output on my HRTC. Not sure if the new stuff he uses will work for you or not but I suspect some minor machining may be neccessary.

I have a good sized pile of various rover drive shafts stashed away. Timm is going to do something with them and new ujoints. I'm just going on faith that he will make them work. The front axle was set up with castor in mind and its all welded up so yes its going to have some steep angles. The rear axle is not welded yet. The perches are just setup waiting for the final location of my t case so I intend to point the rear pinion at the tcase and use a double cardon shaft if necessary.

I really appreciate all the input folks. Thanks very much.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Hey all:

Not much news but I did receive my np435 yesterday. Looks good and is the wide ratio version so I'm going to have a low crawling gear. I have been trying to hash out my gearing but since I dont have any experience in this department I've been concerned about screwing stuff up. I've had conversations with several people at this point and have decided to go with the stock suffix A transfercase (because I have two of them sitting in my garage) and 4.14 ring and pinion. Also going to pony up for a front ARB as well since the 4.14 wont work with my p38 carrier.

This will give a low range first of 80:1 approx and will have me doing 66mph at 3k rpms in 4th gear high range. I will also buy the santana overdrive as soon as I find one and that will make freeway speed much more reasonable.

Any opinions welcome as I haven't bought the 4.14 gears yet, but intend to do so in the next day or so. Thanks.

Daniel

ps- yes my shop is a mess!

[KevinNY]

I'd go with the HRTC right from the get go. With the granny gear on that NP435 and the power at hand I think you will never really use 1st gear in lo range. An HRTC is still going to give you a crawl of around 64:1. My crawl is 41:1 and I don't hold back on the obstacles I'm willing to give a go and I only have a little 100hp/180lb diesel fourbanger. I've considered what you are thinking, having an earlier 2.89:1 series case and an overdrive but in reality I've gotten everywhere without it and the HRTC is quiet and simple. If I did it my crawl would go to 50:1 which would be great, I can't imagine having 64:1 never mind 80:1.

FYI for comparison a stock V8 90 with those diff gears would have a crawl of 46:1 with the comparativly anemic 3.9 motor

[o2batsea]

2WD transmission? How does that work? You aren't considering a divorced Series TC are you? How would that ever fit in an 88? Are you going to be able to drill and tap the gearbox case yourself? I guess Timm will provide the answer.

[1962siia88]

Hey Bill

Timm's adapter is a housing that bolts to both the trans and tcase. There's is a shaft inside the housing to transfer the power. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it adds a few inches to the length but does fit easily in an 88" and I can still run an overdrive too.



Regarding the hrtc I'm still on the fence. Nothing in my plan would preclude me from changing to it in the future and my low range would still be very low. I decided on the 4.14 gearing because it is the strongest gearing out there and combined with the arb's front and back seems like another part of this rig that will be bullet proof from the start. I most likely will have to wait a bit on buying an overdrive because of budget constraints so plenty of time to change my mind between od or hrtc.

Still have to figure out my high steering set up and which shocks I'm going to use and how they will be mounted. My goal is to be ready by mendo which is a ncal rover trip every April. Thanks all.

Daniel

[oilburner]

I think you are making all the right choices and using a great combination of parts. My old 109 was setup very much like yours is, and the only issue I see is the high steer setup on a coiler axle. I made an arm that attached to the top pin, one caliper bolt, and the steering stop, and although I was sure that the arm would hold, I was always worried about breaking the knuckle as they are kind of thin and not designed for this type of load. This was 10 years ago and my metalworking skills are a lot better and I now think that my first design was rather crude, and could be improved upon, but the strength of the knuckle is kind of the main issue. I ended up switching to Toyota axles and now to a 101FC front end.

If you are going to do this, you can use a RHD swivel housing on the right side to lose the steering arm, and you can probably build a steering arm that ties into the top pin, one of the caliper bolts, and a variety of other bolt locations. Just try and spread the load out as much as possible, and perhaps carry a spare knuckle casting (just in case).

Although I was worried mine never failed, I didn't beat on it that hard but I broke plenty of other stuff.

I think the gearing will be spot on just as it is, the Santana is a great upgrade and will help with the big holes between the gears on the 4 speed (as opposed to a high range case), kind of like a gear splitter. )Plus an extra lever to play with.

I love the Jackmans too. I am building a set of jackman inspired 17s for my current project. If you can take a good photo of one of the wheels, dead on, from the side, I would appreciate it. I need to trace the outline through CAD to get the centers cut out on a CNC table.

Oh and one last thing - I hate to break it to you but unfortunately those AVM hubs are made out of recycled baby poo. They are going to explode or strip out. I would leave them off (although they sure are nice for controling vibrations).

[1962siia88]

Hey Oilburner:

Thanks for the info on the steering arms. Do you have any pics of your original setup? I'm hoping to get on with my steering arms asap. I have the arm for the right side cut but havent drilled any holes yet or welded anything on it to attach anywhere. The arm itself is made on of .75" flat bar and I'm copying the basic profile of the s2a arms but flat. I haven't decided if Im using rover tie rod ends or gm. I hadn't even considered fc101 parts. I'll have to look into that too.

I will get a good pic of the jackman's for you later today and will post it here, or can email it to you as well. 17" j's would be super cool.

Thanks.

Daniel

[o2batsea]

Hey Bill

Timm's adapter is a housing that bolts to both the trans and tcase. There's is a shaft inside the housing to transfer the power. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it adds a few inches to the length but does fit easily in an 88" and I can still run an overdrive too.

Yeah I get that, but the trans in your pic is a 2wd trans not a 4wd trans. Usually what you do is find the Ford version that has the extra casting on the front so you can adapt it to the GM bell housing (or just use a Ford engine). The rear will have a trapezoidal bolt pattern to fit the factory Ford TC adapter. I dunno what you got going with Mr Cooper so I'll butt out.

------ Follow up post added December 15th, 2010 02:07 PM ------

Still have to figure out my high steering set up

Hydraulic, no issues.

[cgalpin]

Hydraulic, no issues.

Street legal?

[oilburner]

No pics of my original steering. It was milled and bent 3/4 plate but this is back when I built everything with a torch, a hacksaw and 6013 rod so it was far from elegant.

It's easier and way cleaner to adapt a 2wd NP435 than a 4wd one. I have done the same thing with a T18 and the end result is way shorter than the OEM extension housing plus an adapter. You lose all that extra crap bolted to the back of the trans. Huge plus for an 88. Plus the main shaft is beefier from a 2wd appl.

I would not recommend the 101FC stuff. It is pricey and does not really give you an advantage unless you want to run a really heavy motor (6BT). The relatively light V8s are no trouble for the series or coiler axle tubes, I was bending them with my heavy drivetrain.

Hydraulic steering is for boats and backhoes and has no place on public roads.

[o2batsea]

it's easier and way cleaner to adapt a 2wd np435 than a 4wd one. I have done the same thing with a t18 and the end result is way shorter than the oem extension housing plus an adapter. You lose all that extra crap bolted to the back of the trans. Huge plus for an 88. Plus the main shaft is beefier from a 2wd appl.

n'k.

[1962siia88]

Well it's official! I'm going with the Santana overdrive. Just drove away from GBR with a NOS Santana an an ARB for my front axle! Woohoo!

I will get pics when I get back home next week. Happy new year folks!

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Well not much has been happening with my project over the last month but did have Timm C put my diffs together yesterday. New ARB's front and back with the 4.14 gear sets! They definitely look much tougher than the 3.54 sets.

Also have made progress on the front shocks. Amazon had a sale that helped me decide to go with rancho rs9000xl shocks. $45 each! I used part no. rs999034 which is a 13.75" travel shock with an extended length of 34". I dont expect to have this much travel, but close to it. I'm hoping to have my lower shock mounts built today and hopefully on the axle tubes too. I'm using ford f250 upper mounts as others have done in the past.

I've been side tracked by another project which kind of just happened. I decided to part out my tired and totalled 91 rrc, and because I have a few series tubs and a good rear cross member I decided to go for the coil sprung series trailer! I'll try to get some pics when it looks like something resembling a trailer.

Daniel

[cgalpin]

I've been side tracked by another project which kind of just happened. I decided to part out my tired and totalled 91 rrc, and because I have a few series tubs and a good rear cross member I decided to go for the coil sprung series trailer! I'll try to get some pics when it looks like something resembling a trailer.
Welcome to the club. I need to finish mine.

[1962siia88]

I saw your thread and have seen your pics of the trailer. Very cool. I'm using a 109sw tub for mine. Trying to figure out how to keep the hand brake too. I'm also going to try to keep the gas tank.


Daniel

[o2batsea]

Hey how'd you get that Chihuahua to stick to the wall?

[cgalpin]

So I assume you'll cut the tub short at the rear doors? Closer in size to a D90 tub then I guess. It should be easy to finish it off though if you don't need to get fancy. I suspect the hand brake will be a problem though given the hand brake drum is attached to the transfer case. I would like brakes on mine, and you can get a hydraulic surge brake, but that and the heavy weight of the frame have me considering going with a home built frame and a standard trailer axle/suspension with e-brakes. Not sure what I'm going to do though, and might be a few more months before I do any mods to it.

Mine still has the nas fuel tank cradle (i used a D90 frame) but if I keep this frame I think it'll hold a water tank instead.

------ Follow up post added January 22nd, 2011 05:55 PM ------

Hey how'd you get that Chihuahua to stick to the wall?
The same way he got the couch and shock to stick.

[o2batsea]

I wanna party THERE

[1962siia88]

Hey how'd you get that Chihuahua to stick to the wall?

Chihuahua?! Rocky (aka- Bockle)is a mut through and though. My best guess is Basenji, Boston Terrier and Italian greyhound mix. He's our normal dog, also have Shelby a Basenji, Fox terrier mix. She came from a wild dog population in Taiwan and freaks out if people are near by who aren't me, my wife, or my kid. Both rescues. :)

Not to highjack my own thread, but here is the "trailer".

[o2batsea]

Wait, what? The wife and kid are both rescues?

[Cube II]

Interesting thread
:)
will follow with mucho interest,
my ex-MoD 109" is still sleeping, waiting for a workshop and same suspension treatment probably...

I'm somewhat worried by the height of your truck though...what's the total lift gained with SOA?
:confused

[1962siia88]

Interesting thread
:)
will follow with mucho interest,
my ex-MoD 109" is still sleeping, waiting for a workshop and same suspension treatment probably...

I'm somewhat worried by the height of your truck though...what's the total lift gained with SOA?
:confused

I have gained 4.5" so far but don't have an engine or my bumper and winch on yet. My wheel base is slightly longer at this point and my track width is significantly wider but I haven't measured the difference yet. Probably something close to 12" wider than it was.

Daniel

[Cube II]

Good point.
Looking back at the rest of the thread, I think I saw coiler axles?

I saved a bunch of pics off your gallery.
Thanks.

[1962siia88]

No problem. There will be more pics in the next few months for sure. I hope to finish the suspension in the next few weeks.

Then it will be engine mounts and start figuring out how everything will fit.

Daniel

[Cube II]

Great.

I saved the Ford mount pic as well.
I think I'll design mine with multiple holes so to adjust shock lenght,
as I did years ago for my D90.

Then have them laser cut and folded
:)

------ Follow up post added January 24th, 2011 04:59 PM ------

P.S.

What 88" rear springs you use over there?
Used or brand new?
What brand?

I wonder how to assess ride height with worn springs compared to new ones.
I will pull my 88" rears.

[1962siia88]

Well... I made a little more progress today. I got my lower shock mount figured out for the front and got one side welded together. Also have my frame side engine mounts made and just need to weld them in place. Glad to have had nice weather for the last week. The rain starts again on Monday or Tuesday so probably wont make much progress for the next little while.


Daniel

[cgalpin]

That's a long arm - won't that produce a large rotational force on the axle?

[1962siia88]

I'm not sure about that. As per usual I'm just following direction from Timm. Hopefully I'll get to drive it someday and I'll let you know! The bottom of the shock is about 4" behind the axle. The stock series has the shock about 3" behind the axle.

Daniel

[phoenix37]

You better stop listening to Timm or your going to end up with a truck that can do stuff like this:cool:

[1962siia88]

Nice shot! Haven't seen that one before. You can tell from this picture how far back his shock is too. I dont have that same hoodlum driver thing going on that Timm has cultivated! Thanks.

Daniel

[o2batsea]

I'm not sure about that. As per usual I'm just following direction from Timm. Hopefully I'll get to drive it someday and I'll let you know! The bottom of the shock is about 4" behind the axle. The stock series has the shock about 3" behind the axle.

Daniel

Yeah, but it's not booger welded to the axle housing. Also curious why no parabolics and military shackles....afraid to go all the way?

[cgalpin]

Yeah I don't claim to know anything about suspensions, I just know basic physics tells me that will produce a rotational force (torque) and given both sides will be on the rear of the axle wrap. Maybe your springs are super stiff, but it just doesn't sit well with me. I assume leaf spring trucks have the shocks on opposite side to counteract each other (although really guessing).

Any reason not to angle the shock slightly and half the length of the arm for example? Again, don't know what I am talking about so the answer might be obvious, but just curious.

[JSBriggs]

You better stop listening to Timm or your going to end up with a truck that can do stuff like this:cool:

HA! I was there that day. I have a couple of those pics. I should go dig them out. Daniel I don't know if Timm has told the story, but that is the 'It's all good' Datsun

-Jeff

[cgalpin]

The bottom of the shock is about 4" behind the axle. The stock series has the shock about 3" behind the axle.
Sorry should have read your reply closer. Only one inch more doesn't sound bad, but sure looks like a lot. I"ll have to go look at my series in the morning as I never noticed it being too far out.

[1962siia88]

Yeah, but it's not booger welded to the axle housing. Also curious why no parabolics and military shackles....afraid to go all the way?

Bill you have some classic quotes on here. I am actually afraid to go all the way. You found me out.

I may end up using longer shackles at some point but from others' experience the stock springs give a firmer ride than the parabolics and obviously from the pic above articulation isn't a problem with stock springs. I had parabolics on this truck before this project and considered using them but Timm convinced me otherwise. Plus I was able to sell them to help fund this thing. How is your project coming along?

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Sorry should have read your reply closer. Only one inch more doesn't sound bad, but sure looks like a lot. I"ll have to go look at my series in the morning as I never noticed it being too far out.

Charles if you look at the picture of my shock set up closely you can see the stock series ubolt/spring plate with the shock mount. Its hiding right behind my shock and is partially visible in the picture. Of course its on upside down but that doesnt change the distance from the back of the axle to the lower shock mount.

The other thing is that if it doesnt work properly I'll change it. Fear of getting things wrong has seriously slowed this project down, plus I dont want to bug Timm for free advice every other day. I'm really hoping to be driving this thing by late April for the mendo trip (annual rover camping trip with many series trucks) but that seems less likely as time goes forward. Hopefully by summer I'll be done.

Daniel

[o2batsea]

Well, don't wanna second guess your thinking, BUT...
If you left the old spring perch where it was and welded a second spring perch on top, ya coulda used the old shock mount plate on the bottom and fabbed a new plate on top. Use (grade 8) bolts instead of ubolts. Spring and axle samwich, with chips and a pickle.

Don't bug Timm, use the Force!

PS that front diff looks awfully cranked. Hope you have some caster corrected swivel balls to go on there.

[1962siia88]

The problem with doing the shocks like that is the power steering is in the way on the drivers side. This is why the ford mount is used to bump the shock outward and clear the power steering linkage. I could have done it that way with a shorter shock that would limited my travel.

As far as the caster goes, Timm actually came over and did all this part for me so I'm sure its going to be acceptable. I dont remember the actual degrees anymore and didn't take any notes but it wasn't eyeballed and was not clocked too much at all iirc.

Thamks.

Daniel

[Ren Ching]

it may look funny but I don't see how having the shock that for off the axle is really going to cause spring wrap. I highly doubt the shock valving is stiff enough to affect a spring pack that thick. The pinion angle looks about stock for a coiler axle.

[oilburner]

One of the biggest issues with a spring over is trying to control axle wrap. By stepping out the shocks like that, you have a great reduction in axle wrap and the overall effect on handling is pretty low as the shocks on a leaf sprung rig are not as important as a coiler, lots of interleaf friction to help with damping. I find it looks cleaner than having a great big antiwrap bar.

The front axle looks to be built right, no need for goofy swivel balls.

You're on the right track!!

If you talk to Timm tell him JL from way up north says hi, have not talked to the wildman in a few years :)

[cgalpin]

Yeah let me re-iterate I don't claim to know anything about this stuff. Certainly don't let my (or anyone else's) comments derail you. Maybe one day one of our comments will be useful in some way, but if not, consider us entertainment.

[1962siia88]

I love the comments. Keep'em coming! I'm my own worst enemy on this project between my lack of knowledge and skill. Work is the other nagging issue. Ive got two small companies and I really need to get my year end stuff off to my acct! It's hard to reconcile bank statements when all you can think of is rover related.

Hoping today to get the front axle on my bench to weld up the other side and start finalizing my
steering arms. While it's out i will paint it, run the brake lines and install the front diff.

For those who have asked about Timm I did actually speak with him yesterday and passed along your messages and hellos.

Daniel

[Cube II]

HA! I was there that day. I have a couple of those pics. I should go dig them out. ..

-Jeff

Please do!!!!

[oilburner]

For those that are concerned about the height, those springs will settle super quick. As soon as you start bending a rover spring backwards on itself like you can with a spring over, it loses a lot of height. You you cna get a spring over down to almost the same height as a 109 1 tonne. Most of the time people run larger tires which raises the vehicle too. Dan make sure you think about the way the axle will be positioned when the springs sag with your shock positioning - Looks like you are getting it on. I am sitting on a Gen IV 6.2 from an Escalade, trying to figure out whether I want to go diesel or gas on the next truck. All these GM swaps are making it difficult to decide.

[Cube II]

I am sitting on a Gen IV 6.2 from an Escalade, trying to figure out whether I want to go diesel or gas on the next truck. All these GM swaps are making it difficult to decide.

You pick engines like apples!


I might make it to Canada this summer, after the National Rally, let's keep in touch! :)

[1962siia88]

For those that are concerned about the height, those springs will settle super quick. As soon as you start bending a rover spring backwards on itself like you can with a spring over, it loses a lot of height. You you cna get a spring over down to almost the same height as a 109 1 tonne. Most of the time people run larger tires which raises the vehicle too. Dan make sure you think about the way the axle will be positioned when the springs sag with your shock positioning - Looks like you are getting it on. I am sitting on a Gen IV 6.2 from an Escalade, trying to figure out whether I want to go diesel or gas on the next truck. All these GM swaps are making it difficult to decide.

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I'm in the right spot. The next move is to begin installing the engine trans and tcase so I'll get some weight over those springs and make changes if necessary. That 6.2 is an aluminum block isn't it? I'm considering that for my next project too. It's either that or an lq9 which I believe your motor replaced. I keep finding little bits for the next project but I have to remind myself that it's one at a time or I'll never finish.

So the front axle is on the bench. Hopefully I'll get it cleaned up and weld the other shock mount to it this weekend. While it's out I will also clean up the chassis in the engine compartment and get my frame side engine mounts welded on. They are done and ready to go and their location is all figured out too. Hopefully it won't rain too much this weeked.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Hey all:

I made a bit more progress today. I was able to get the new engine mounts welded to the frame and got the drivers side upper shock mount welded on too.

Here are some pics


Started grinding the paint off the axle too, but have a bit more work to do there before I paint it. Plus I think its too cold to paint it right now anyway. Hopefully it will warm up some soon and I can paint the front half of the chassis again too.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Here is how the axle looks so far. I redid my lower shock mount that I posted up before. This is some square tubing with the top part of a ford upper shock mount welded to it. I'm much happier with the appearance of this one. Plus its not crooked! :)

Daniel

[cgalpin]

Looking good!

[D90user]

Looking great
You gotta post some pictures of how those mounts work... very cool.

[JSBriggs]

Looking good Daniel. Looks like you are widening th doghouse on the bulkhead too. Are you going to cut off the streering relay tabs,or keep them in case you want to go back to armstrong steering?

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

Thanks guys! Yes I'm going to widen the area between the footwells to fit the engine. I'm hoping to have the entire center panel out today and I will grind off the steering relay tabs too. The radiator will be there and I'm not going back to the old steering set up no matter what.

My steering was soooooo bad it was embarrassing! The relay was shot and I had the pitman arm installed wrong on the steering box so it had a much better turning radius going right than left. Driving my rig on pavement was a bit sketchy. On dirt it was much better.



So far today small progress has been made. Steve came over and took away my suffix a trans and tcase. So that is gone and now I will chop out that panel and be able to start mocking up the engine and transmission! Getting closer!

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

I'd be careful, that Steve guy is a bit shifty.

-Jeff

[D90user]

I'd be careful, that Steve guy is a bit shifty.

-Jeff
Ha!
I think this 'having old crusty series parts getting in your way' is contagious. While I was there I slao took a look at the p38 steering box. The series 1 may be getting power steering... I may not have a choice with a defender 200tdi.

Those motor mounts that Daniel put in use radius arm bushings... how cool is that?

[1962siia88]

So I got the center panel out today. I can see now how the engine is actually going to fit! I think I want an axle under this thing when I put the engine in to make sure the axle doesnt hit the pan or anything else, so I need to get that axle painted.

I think I'm going to take it to work tomorrow and paint it there where we have a nice heated garage with lots of space. Luckily I'm the boss so I can get away with that kind of thing. :)

Anyway here is a pic of the hole were the engine and trans will go. Once the axle is back under the rig I'll get out the hoist and hang the engine and trans in there and start building my motor mounts and the new cross member for the transmission. I wonder if I can use the rangie transmission cross member I have? Hmmm.



Daniel

[JSBriggs]

... I wonder if I can use the rangie transmission cross member I have? Hmmm.

Yes you can, the frame rails are the same distance apart.

Do you have a game plan for rebuilding the doghouse on the bulkhead? And old hot rod trick is to is a garden wheelbarrow.

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

My plan is to put the engine and transmission in and then start mocking up the sheet metal with cardboard. The center panel and foot well side will be super easy, its the tunnel cover that will require some thought and attention to detail. There aren't too many custom tunnel covers out there that I've seen that were visually appealing to me. Mine will probably look like all the others... big flat boxy funnel shaped thing that looks nothing like the original cover.

I wonder if a d90 r380 seat box and tunnel cover would do the trick? Anyway I'll come up with something. I dont have any experience with sheet metal work, so it should be interesting. Luckily I've got a lifetime supply of pizza boxes to play with trying to come up with templates that will work.

I also still dont have the adapter for the np435 to the series t case. Not sure when that will get done, but Timm has a housing he is going to loan me so I can get everything fitted in place.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

I love craigslist! Found a nice almost new set of Hooker headers with down pipes today! The guy had them on a 5.3l in a tr7 dragster. They didn't breathe right with his built motor, so he went with something bigger.

Anyway they are the exact ones I was about to pay full price for so I'm happy. They are the hooker super competition block huggers. I got one side bolted up to the engine and they fit perfectly. Also took one of the stock engine mounts off the engine so I can use it as a template to begin making my new mounts.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the engine in the frame next weekend!

Daniel

[o2batsea]

I'd make the tunnel cover from fiberglass. You can use anything to make the male plug...cardboard, modeling clay, blue insulation foam, etc. cover the mold with something the glass won't stick to like Reynolds Wrap Release foil or Saran wrap (the classic not the new version) or the like. Garbage bags work too. If you want to get fancy you could make the mold from sheet aluminum, paint it with mold release agent and then do the lay up. For a one off I'd go cheap tho.
I'd use epoxy rather than polyester resin just cuz it's a little more heat tolerant. Go to the boat store and get a proper ribbed roller which helps lay the glass flat in the resin and gets the air bubbles out. West System, System III, MAS, all make good resin. Do alternating layers of cloth and light woven fabric, building to about a 16th of an inch.

------ Follow up post added March 8th, 2011 08:10 AM ------

Dan are you using a new crate engine or buying a used one? There is a nice cam available that will bump it up to 327 hp without any other changes. GM Performance 24503586 I'd definitely do that.

[1962siia88]

Well a bit more progress to report. I took the axle housing to work today and got the first coat of paint on it. The garage there is much warmer than at home, so I went for it. Hopefully I prepped well enough. I took it down to bare metal in most places and wiped it down with acetone before painting it. I used an oil based rustoleum and rolled it on with a little touch up roller. I'll do a few coats and hope for the best. So far so good.

Thanks Bill for the suggestion. I had never considered fiberglass. I'll look in to it. As far as engine mods go I think I'm going to wait and see. I will need to do something about the intake and I've got the headers so some kind of mild cam would probably be nice, but its going to make plenty of power as is. We shall see.

Any way here are some pics of the axle housing.

[o2batsea]

Caulk and paint hides what ain't.

What is it you need to do about the intake?

[D90user]

Daniel,
Tony may have a defender tunnel cover that he is not going to use.

looking good!

[1962siia88]

Caulk and paint hides what ain't.

What is it you need to do about the intake?

I need to make one that will fit and look good under the hood. If you notice on the catahoula rig Timm modified an intake from a nada 6. Others have used the stock intake to airbox hose and attached a coiler air filter to that. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.

Daniel,
Tony may have a defender tunnel cover that he is not going to use.

looking good!

Wow if I could get my hands on that just to see if it fits that would be wonderful! Maybe we should all get together for beer and pizza to discuss the possibility of this. :) Thanks.

So I continued working on the rig this afternoon and while taking off the other stock exhaust manifold one of the bolts snapped its head off. It was previously cracked and had rusted. Dang. There is about 1/2" of the bolt sticking out of the head so I'm soaking the thing with penetrating fluid and will extract it tomorrow. Cant seem to find the darn vise grips.:angry Hoping to start making my engine mounts today. I also ordered the bushings that will support the engine today and they should be here Thursday so I'm still hoping to get this engine in the frame over the weekend.

Daniel

[60dzl]

Something that works rather well, and seeing how you have a welder, is to take a nut, that is large enough to slip over the threads, and with some patients, weld the nut to the broken stud/bolt. The heat helps break loose the stuck part, as well as gives you a place to put a wrench to turn it out. I have had this work well, though sometimes it takes a few tries to get the nut welded on well enough.

[1962siia88]

Hey thanks for the idea! That worked great! No thread damage either!

So I put the second coat on my axle housing this morning and intend to go back down to work tonight and leave the axle close to the ovens to help it dry a bit more. I was hoping to get a coat of paint on the chassis in the engine compartment today but its too cold and is supposed to rain again tomorrow so no go. I still hope to get the engine in this weekend so I can finish up my mounts. I cut and drilled the plates that bolt to the engine. I used 5"X3/16 flat bar (which is thicker that the stock mount) and will probably just weld some square tubing to that. I need the engine hanging in place so I get the angles right and the length. I'm intending to have the engine off center by .75".

Thanks again for the idea to weld on a nut.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

More progress to report. I got the chassis painted in the engine area and after much measuring and geometry I made engine mount version 1.0. I've only got one side done so far and I'm pretty confident the arm will end up right over the frame mounted engine bushing and will leave me 1" clearance from the front edge of the fan clutch to the front cross member and I should be .75" off center towards the drivers side. I'll wait to drill the hole for the bushing bolt so I can fudge it a little bit if necessary.

The plate at the engine is 3/8" thick and the arms that go to the frame mounted bushing are 2"x.25" flat bar. Definitely more study than what was attached to the engine from the factory. Hopefully I'll get the other side done tomorrow and maybe I can test fit the engine this weekend. Its supposed to rain but who knows. It also looks like I'm picking up a 1987 rrc on Friday! I may not do much on the project this weekend.

Here are some pics.

[1962siia88]

Got the other side done too!

Daniel

[o2batsea]

That thing is gonna fly. Mounts look good. I always look at something like that and ask myself it would still work if the truck was upside down. If you can say yes, then I would say it passes the shade tree engineering test.

[Ren Ching]

I don't about the flying thing but those mounts are going to deflect upward when you start hitting bumps. 1/4" isn't thick enough to support that much weight in a dynamic loading. You'd be better off welding a flange on both sides of the 1/4" material.

[cgalpin]

He said 3/8th but yeah I'd add a vertical triangular gusset to at least one side of it. That should stiffen it up immensely.

[1962siia88]

I can see your point Ren and Charles. I will weld some vertical pieces on the outside of the arms once I know these are in the correct place. Thanks for the input.

Also I will have a cross member that the bell housing will rest on with stock chevy rubber bellhousing bushings and the transfer case will be bolted in too. The load should be spread out in other words. Thanks.

Charles, the plates bolted to the engine are 3/8" but the arms coming off them are 1/4".

Daniel

[o2batsea]

I would think that a piece of c channel would be better. Got a neighbor with a boat on a trailer? Be sure to wrap your hack saw with a t shirt to reduce noise.

[EWR]

I would think that a piece of c channel would be better. Got a neighbor with a boat on a trailer? Be sure to wrap your hack saw with a t shirt to reduce noise.

Now that was funny. That seems to be a *from experience* type of comment.....

[TeriAnn]

I am definitely considering the hrtc as an option. I've conversed with Teriann W. who has one in her 109 dormy. The gearing is really tough to decide on especially since I dont have much experience with the different options. I know I want a low crawling ratio and I know I want freeway speeds. I also know my budget and that I may have to do things in stages.

I seem to be late to the party.

With a stock Series transfercase and 4.7s I found that I could go slow very quickly. The v8s like to loaf at lower RPMS & the stock Series gearing puts you at around 3,400 RPM at 60 MPH (32 inch dia tyres). A V8 sounds a little frantic cruising in that RPM range.

The Ashcroft high ratio gear set basically leaves your low range ratios alone and puts your high range ratio very close to that of a stock Series transfercase in front of 3.54 R&Ps. Too high for the 2.25 to push but easy for a V8.

With the Ashcroft kit installed and 255/85R16 tyres I turn 65 MPH at 2650 rpm, and 70 MPH at about 3000 RPM. I could tame that a little with 35 inch tyres but I worry that I would not be able to climb into it in a straight skirt without hiking the skirt up.

For those of you who do not know my 1960 Dormobile, Timm Cooper converted it to a Ford 302 and T-18 gearbox back in 1999. It already had a Salisbury rear end with ARB locker in back. Since then I have added a thing or two and in early 2010 Timm swapped the T-18 for a close ratio NP435.

Current drive train is 1968 Mustang 302 with 1991 Mustang EFI, Ford NP435 gearbox housing with Chevy close ratio gear set, Series transfercase with Ashcroft high ratio kit, front axle is Rover with Range Rover classic carrier, Truetrack diff, 4.75:1 R&P, Seriestrek 24 spline axles & front disc brakes. Rear is Salisbury with ARB locker and Great basin hardened rear axles & drive flanges. Timm replaced my front & rear propshafts when he converted to the gearbox.

I found the T18's 70:1 low range first to be too low for almost all the driving I do in my Dormobile. It is not a purpose built rock crawler. The gap between the 70:1 low range first gear and the low range second 34:1 ratio left a big gap where I desperately wanted a gear for most of the driving I do. I wanted a ratio in between 70:1 & 34:1.

The NP435 close ratio gave me a 50:1 low range first (stock LR is 41:1) and a low range second of 25:1 (stock LR is 24.6:1). I have found that 50:1 works VERY well for the kinds of places I bring my Dormobile. and am MUCH happier with my new gear ratios. I sometimes convoy with other Series rigs and second low is a common driving gear. Having almost identical low range second gearing makes convoying easy and pleasant. The T18 often had me convoying at under 1000 RPM.

Unlike Daniel I don't weld and can't lift really heavy things so I get Timm to do those things for me.

[1962siia88]

[QUOTE=TeriAnn;276254]I seem to be late to the party.

Hey Teriann!

Better late than never! I have made almost no progress in the last month and definitely wont be ready for mendo. Oh well.

I'm repainting my front axle this week. I went to install my front diff and decided my paint job looked awful, so i stripped the paint and am going to do it over again. I decided to use real paint this time and have a 2 part epoxy spray paint and ppg defleet essential in silver for the axles! Since its a spring over and the axles will be very visible I want them to be a bit blingy. :) I'll post photos for people to flame once they're painted.

Also bought a complete rebuild kit for the np435 and I hope to get it up to Timm in the very near future for him to rebuild. It probably doesn't really need the rebuild, but after he's done with it I'll be sure, plus he's got a suffix b tcase that I'll have him attach to it!

Cheers,

Daniel

[TeriAnn]

Also bought a complete rebuild kit for the np435 and I hope to get it up to Timm in the very near future for him to rebuild. It probably doesn't really need the rebuild, but after he's done with it I'll be sure, plus he's got a suffix b tcase that I'll have him attach to it!

Never hurts! I had mine rebuilt too before Timm put it in. I too used one of Timm's adapters.

What are you doing for gearing?

1:1 (fourth gear) X 1.15:1 (high range) X 4.7:1 gives you 5.405:1 at the axle. With 35 inch dia tyres you need 3373 RPM to reach 65 MPH.

Of course your low range first gear is 6.68:1 (NP435 granny first) X 2.89:1 (Suffix B low range) X 4.7:1 = 90.73:1 at the axle. That comes out to 2 MPH at 1742 RPM or 871 RPM for 1 MPH :eek: Gonzo rock crawler! And I thought 70:1 was low.

This truck I'll have to see when you get it finished

[o2batsea]

With the Ashcroft kit installed and 255/85R16 tyres I turn 65 MPH at 2650 rpm, and 70 MPH at about 3000 RPM. I could tame that a little with 35 inch tyres but I worry that I would not be able to climb into it in a straight skirt without hiking the skirt up.
Vortech blower kit will cure that. I think you'd have to pooch out the breakfast tho...but then you could put a Fairey or Roverdrive on it with no problem. Whheee! Look at me, I'm FLYING!

[1962siia88]

Hey Teriann

This is all in this thread but I've got 4.14 gears in the diffs an I have a NOS Santana overdrive. I can't remember the numbers any more but something around 80:1 low range first gear and 80+mph in high range overdrive at 3k rpm.

I'm sure you will see this rig. Maybe mendo 2012 or Linus's new year DV expedition? Hope I'm done by then.

Daniel

[TeriAnn]

Vortech blower kit will cure that. I think you'd have to pooch out the breakfast tho...but then you could put a Fairey or Roverdrive on it with no problem. Whheee! Look at me, I'm FLYING!

I'm not sure about a Vortech blower kit for a Ford 302 with '91 Mustang EFI or how it would change the engine RPM at given speeds. I know the pooch loves his breakfast and everyone else's too if he could.

Overdrives are incompatible with the high ratio kit. Otherwise I would have added one to get a fifth gear.

------ Follow up post added April 11th, 2011 03:47 PM ------

Hey Teriann

This is all in this thread but I've got 4.14 gears in the diffs an I have a NOS Santana overdrive. I can't remember the numbers any more but something around 80:1 low range first gear and 80+mph in high range overdrive at 3k rpm.


Opps I missed the change of R&P gears. Silly question, have you verified that the A & B suffix transfer cases are overdrive compatible? I think the early boxes may have a different ratio main shaft output gear. You may need a Suffix C or later box. Wow a Santana OD is the cat's meow!

Lets see,

1:1 X 1.15:1 X 4.14 = 4.761:1 without OD & a Santana is probably good for 28% which is what 3.41 at the axle? which is 2128 RPM at 65 MPH. Looking good.

Have you verified that the A & B suffix transfer cases are overdrive compatible?

[1962siia88]

No I haven't verified that. I had a fairey on my suffix a with no problem and Timm is aware of all my plans and hasn't brought this up, but I guess I could call Bill Davis and ask him. I guess worst case scenerio my low range will be more reasonable than 80:1. Isn't the suffix c low 2.35:1? Anyway glad to have your input Teriann. Thanks.

Daniel

[o2batsea]

I'm not sure about a Vortech blower kit for a Ford 302 with '91 Mustang EFI or how it would change the engine RPM at given speeds
Here ya go babe
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=83
345 Hp on pump gas, stock engine, are you kidding me!

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/fox-body_black_system.jpg

[TeriAnn]

No I haven't verified that. I just brought the question up because I do not know the answer and installing the overdrive is the wrong time to say "opps". With a different low range gear ratio I thought there might possibly be a different number of teeth in the gear set which might cause compatibility problems. :confused

------ Follow up post added April 11th, 2011 08:43 PM ------

Here ya go babe
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=83
345 Hp on pump gas, stock engine, are you kidding me!

I wonder what the RPM range for the blowers added boost? Interesting thing about my set up is that my engine very seldom sees North of 3000 rpm so everything is focused for the low end. AFR cylinder heads with the smaller passages & valves for better low end fuel flow & mixing. A towing cam that robs from the high end to produce extra torque & power at the bottom end. The engine power is well suited for my truck and the way I use her. If I ever decide I need more power I think I would go for a stroker crank since it adds its torque to the low end of the RPM band. For me, most all the standard speed equipment is useless or more than useless if it robs anything from the low RPM range.

So far the best thing I've done for the engine is the EFI. The around town fuel mileage took a decent boost, the engine runs smoother, esp at very low RPMs, it runs cleaner and handles big changes in altitude. Since I iive at 7100 feet & everyplace else is a few thousand feet down hill that is an important trait.

[o2batsea]

TW, I'm going to be rebuilding the 109 soon with a similar drive train to yours. I'm yanking the IH 345 and putting in a 302/NP435. It will be EFI too and be normally aspirated until at some point I put in a Vortech. Or turbos. The supercharger, which is belt driven, is boosting the intake air at all engine speed so it will be adding HP throughout the RPM range. A turbocharger requires exhaust pressure to spin the turbine so there is some delay in the time it takes for the boost to kick in. The advantage to the turbocharger is one moving part, whereas the supercharger needs a drive mechanism. Neither one is perfect of course, they both have their points. Noise is also a factor.
The goal for both is to get the same amount of horsepower a large engine will produce in a smaller displacement.
I would think for someone who is at high altitude the supercharger would be a no brainer.

[TeriAnn]

The goal for both is to get the same amount of horsepower a large engine will produce in a smaller displacement.
I would think for someone who is at high altitude the supercharger would be a no brainer.

Weeellllll, except that the 302 pulls my dormobile around smartly and provides all the power I need. Granted, it might be nice to have a little more power on those miles long steep grades but even there I have no problem passing 4.6 Range Rovers.

I'm of the school that prefers to under stress hardware than overstress it. I guess it came from replacing too many front and rear axles on the trail or limping home with a broken Rover diff & replacing Rover gearboxes more often than I felt I should have to. Right now the power of my engine is well matched to the strength of my drive trail and if anything the drive train can handle more than my engine puts out. Which is exactly where I want it. The older I get the less willing I am to replace parts on the trail.

I don't feel a need to burn tyres on the pavement to impress others or for giggles. The truck can move out smartly and merge well into freeway traffic. SO I'm happy with what I have for power.

When I'm in the mood for hot rod performance driving I hop into the TR3 and go prowling for the modern roadsters that weigh almost twice as much as my 1800 lb roadster.

Once you gain experience with the EFI 302 you may find that it is all you need to power your 109. Or you may decide that you need a higher warp speed.

[kevkon]

I'm of the school that prefers to under stress hardware than overstress it.

I'd say you hit the nail right on the head.
It's a Land Rover and a chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

[1962siia88]

Hey Folks:

Finally got off my butt and made some progress on this build. I decided it was time to tackle the high steering issue. Here is version 1.0. I've got more swivel housings so if this doesn't work I'll try again. I'll take any input as this is all new stuff to me.

So the goal is to have my steering arms bolt on the the top of the swivel housing and have my drag link and track rod in front of the axle and above the springs. I welded a piece of 1/2" plate vertically sitting on top of the steering stop bolt hole and then another piece of 1/2" plate perpendicular to that piece. The top surface of this piece is in the same plain as the top of the upper swivel pin. I intend to bolt my new steering arm to this piece of plate as well as through the swivel pin. This will give me four bolts holding the arm to the swivel housing instead of two.

I also welded 1/4" plate on the leading edge of the housing to brace the 1/2 plate pieces. Obviously I chopped off the front steering arm that was cast with the swivel housing and I will chop off the track rod arm too.

Here are some pics.

[60dzl]

I like the idea. Did you preheat the cast first? Welding to cast seems to be a black art.

[1962siia88]

I did preheat everything with a map gas torch till it was smoking hot. I didn't get everything completely straight the first try so had to deconstruct it which was not fun, but made me feel much more confident that my welds were good. I also hit it with the torch lightly while it cooled down to make the cooling process go more slowly. Hopefully this will be ok. I will definitely put the steering through some strain testing before I put this thing on the road.

I've got the driver's side ready to go now and intend to weld it up in the next day or so. I also have access to a painless wiring 60218 harness this week, so I'm going to take a stab at modifying the stock gm engine harness. I have some experience with efi harness making, so this part doesn't worry me, just a matter of how much time I want to spend vs. how cheap I want to be. Not paying for the harness means new stronger front axles!

Glad you were able to make the mendo trip this year. Hopefully my rig will be done in time for next year :rolleyes

Daniel

[60dzl]

Good deal, just keep an eye on it and watch for cracks. Yes Mendo was super fun, cant wait to get down there again next year.

[1962siia88]

Ok so here is swivel housing version 1.1. I decided to box in the whole thing. I will lose the fill hole, but can still fill from the top swivel pin or from the oil fill height hole. No biggie. Hopefully much stronger. Also got the engine harness off the engine today. Its all marked and I know which things I'm keeping and which can go. I've also got my friends painless 60218 harness sitting here so I will be spending the afternoon trimming down my harness. Also dropped my transmission at Timm's for complete rebuild with Novak rebuild kit. He will also be mating up the freshly rebuilt suffix b transfer case and the NOS santana overdrive. Might take him a bit as he is in the thick of my friend's 88" truck which by the way is going to be another rediculous Timm C. build. Here are the latest pics.

[1962siia88]

Ok, so I spent all afternoon cutting away at my harness. I removed all unneeded wiring and trimmed everything back to the ecu. I went through the pin outs pin by pin (there are 160 on the ecu) and made sure each one was either connected to something I needed or removed. I went to the pick n pull and got an OBDII data link connector off a chevy truck. I'm going to wire the old choke light as my mil (malfunction indicator light). I still need to decide/figure what needs a fuse and set up a fuel pump relay and a main power relay. Other than that I need to decide where my battery is going to live (most likely under my seat) and run 12v from the battery and a switched 12v source to power this harness. Also need to get the ecu reflashed to remove all the unnecessary programs.

Here are the latest pics. First one is painless wiring, second is painful wiring:rolleyes

[JSBriggs]

Do you think you friend will notice if you give him back the 'painful' harness?

-Jeff

[D90user]

The high steer looks great Daniel. Overkill in a good way. When you compare it to a series swivel and steering arm it makes the series one look like a toothpick.... they never break.

Harness looks like hell. How much is the painless harness? You have devotion sir.

By they way, thanks for dropping by the steering bracket. There is no way I can get away with out going power steering... so be it.

[1962siia88]

Painless harness is about $700. Sounds like a set of gbr front axles.

So you should go to Richmond pick and pull. They have a p38 rangie there with your power steering set up on it!

Yes my fingers are sore from messing through all the wires but now I know what everything is and I'm confident I will be able to make it work. It will clean up nicely an get wrapped in shiny new plastic too. I should show you before and after pics of the brat's wiring. I've got a pic somewhere of a giant rats nest hanging out the side of the engine compartment.

As far as the swivels go I'm still nervous. The coiler swivel seems wimpy compared to the series swivel. I'm going to go with what I have for now but I'm not super happy. This part has definitely been the most worrisome part of the build.

D

[60dzl]

MMMM spaghetti! :cool:

The second version of the knuckles look way better, I like those.

Just curious, what is Timm's opinion of welding to the knuckle, I know he has done some crazy stuff before.

[1962siia88]

I dont really want to speak for Timm but I would say his opinion is that the coil swivels are much weaker than the series swivel. Regarding what I'm doing I would say his opinion is over build and spread the load and hope it doesn't brake and be prepared if it happens. At this point I'll have plenty of surface space to bolt the arm to, and lots of welds to hopefully keep it all together. Timm hasn't seen version 1.1 yet but I will certainly run it by him at some point soon. I need to return the wiring harness to him so I'll probably show him the swivel this weekend.

I hate going up there because he always has some thing I see he is doing on his current build that I then add to my project. He has been super generous with his time and knowledge. My project definitely wouldn't have happened with out his help.

Anyway, I feel like I got myself out of a rut over the last few days and am moving forward again.

D

[Cube II]

I hate going up there because he always has some thing I see he is doing on his current build that I then add to my project.

Might I ask you a favor then?
Next time could you take - if Timm allows - a photo of his workshop showing what's going on?
:cool:

Always loved his builds although the scarce informations on the www.

[1962siia88]

He's building a s3 88" station wagon. Its getting a spring over, 6.0 vortec with automatic and one of his new transfercases. Lots of other bling as well. Hey Brian if you are reading this feel free to hijack and tell us about Gonzo!

[Cube II]

Yeah, whatever :)

[shoefnik]

Do you think you friend will notice if you give him back the 'painful' harness?

-Jeff


Hey Jeff - I will now!!!! :eek:

------ Follow up post added May 11th, 2011 03:22 PM ------

Hey Brian if you are reading this feel free to hijack and tell us about Gonzo!

Sure - here's a brief overview. It's a 6.0 Vortec, automatic trans, sprung over with extended frame horns running rear 88" springs in the front. Modified Salisbury front and a Eaton rear - 35 spline end-to-end. Initally it'll be loaded with 35's on widended 8" Kelsey Hayes Series one wheels. There's been some body modifications but the idea is for it to appear stock but with some attitude. There's lots of other little details - too many to list. Apparently I now am the proud owner of a "Painful Wiring Harness" - manufactured in micro batches right here in Northern California! Need to figure out the cage, bumpers and slider designs next. Timm is doing all the work on this project - I'm just a back seat designer. Daniel - I really have so much respect for you that you are doing this yourself - I wish i had the confidence/time/space to do that as well. I'm eagerly looking forward to hitting the trails with you soon.

Brian

[James Pierce]

Hey Daniel, On my 94 I did a high steer set up using a LH swivel housing from a euro spec 90. This housing has the arm on the front of the knuckle for the drag link since the steering box is on the RH side of the truck. I tapered the arms to accept a 1 ton GM steering joint as well. Wish I had taken better pic's when it was finished. If Michael is around he might be able to take some.

Cheers,
James

[1962siia88]

Nice setup! Did you just drill another hole for the track rod on the front arm on the right side? This set up would still have the the steering below the springs on mine and my goal is to have them above the springs. If you have more pics please post them. Thanks.

Daniel

------ Follow up post added May 11th, 2011 05:33 PM ------

Daniel - I really have so much respect for you that you are doing this yourself - I wish i had the confidence/time/space to do that as well. I'm eagerly looking forward to hitting the trails with you soon.

Brian

Thanks Brian! I'm looking forward to another trip to Death Valley! We will have to plan something for later this summer. Looks like you will be up and running before me, but hopefully I wont be too far behind.

D

[James Pierce]

Actually on a 1 ton chevy ball joint they have a hole in the tie rod end to accept the drag link. I don't have a good picture of it but this similar to the kit I used.

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/motorsport-specific-products/offroad/tie-rod-components/tie-rod-kits/extreme-duty-tie-rod-drag-link-kit.html

[1962siia88]

Ah I see. Nice. Thanks for the info.

D

[1962siia88]

Hey all:

I got my transmission, t case, and overdrive assembly back yesterday! My flywheel and clutch are here too. This means that I can start mocking everything up to ensure my clutch stuff works properly. Once it does I'll post up all the part numbers I used incase anyone else does something similar in the future. The bellhousing I bought doesn't want to go on to the engine, so I'm going to have to find another one. It is a chevy 3925505 cast iron bellhousing which is the correct one, with no signs of damage, but the centering dowels on the engine just wont go in to the holes on the bell. They are off by just a tiny bit. I assume the bellhousing is just slightly bent. Super frustrating! :angry Oh well, I'm getting closer. I will be using an fj40 slave cylinder with a chevy cast iron clutch release fork. I bought the adapter that Advanced Adapters sells. I have this in hand too, so once the new bellhousing gets here I'm in business. I hope to have the driveline installed in the next month or so!

I ordered a set of Rovertracks.com longtrack extreme front axles! They should be here in the next day or so and they are the last piece I needed to buy for the front axle. I'm looking forward to this thing being able to roll again.

My fuel system has also been sorted out. Timm C is about to make a gas tank for Brian's rig, so I'm going to have him make me one at the same time. It will be an 18 gallon (approx) tank that will use the same rear mounting as the stock tank, the front will attach to the bulkhead outrigger. I will need to remove the outrigger that the front of the stock tank attached to. This tank will use the stock series sending unit and allow me to have a proper fuel pump in the tank, plus the extra fuel capacity. Hopefully I'll have this in the next few weeks too.

Here's a pic of the trans/tcase/od.

[TeriAnn]

Gee Daniel, between you and Brian, my truck is feeling very low powered and very low tech. You guys are going to end up with amazing high tech very capable trail rigs.

I just have to remind myself that my truck is a long distance class B RV with no pretensions of being a gonzo rock crawler. Otherwise I would be very jealous of your rigs.

You guys are going to have to get together and make a trip out to the real world (AKA four corners area) so I can take a look at your trucks in action.

I'm happy that the NP435 seems to be working out for you. Take care.

[1962siia88]

Woohoo axles came today! Thanks Keith at Rovertracks for the quick shipping and quality product! Also got the front axle housing painted and this time I'm happy. In the end I went with duplicolor wheel paint. Cheap easily touched up later as needed and yes I cheesed out and went with the silver metal flake color that matches the shocks. I couldn't resist and if you couldn't tell by the blue color of my rig I dont care that much about factory color schemes! Flame on people!


This paint calls for 7 days to fully cure so in that time I hope to finish the swivel housing mods, make the actual steering arms and rebuild/ assemble my brake calipers. For the brakes I'm using disco calipers with the spacer from the rangie to fit the vented front rotors. I will then get this axle all assembled with the free wheel hubs and put it on the truck.

I still have to make my spring retaining plates that the ubolts go through, but they will just be 1/4" plate with a piece of 2"x4" tubing welded to the top as a spacer to keep me from bashing my steering linkage into the frame.


D

[JSBriggs]

Love the rug. It really ties the room together.

-Jeff

[sonoronos]

I like the idea. Did you preheat the cast first? Welding to cast seems to be a black art.

I believe most knuckles are forged, even the ones on cheap little hondas and toyotas :)

Maybe US cars are different! :)

[1962siia88]

Well I finally got back to the series build today. THE ENGINE IS IN!!!! This is a huge motivational hurdle for me, so I'm really happy. My geometry on the engine mounts was accurate so they landed right on top of the bushings and the engine is sitting right where I wanted it!

I had dinner this week with d90user and 16kpsi (steve and tony) plus another rover friend not on this forum. It got me motivated so thanks guys. I needed a little shove!

Hopefully I'll get the trans/tcase in this week if time permits.

[D90user]

Nice work Daniel!

[phoenix37]

Keep it up Daniel! Looking good.

[60dzl]

Looks Great!

[1962siia88]

Thanks all for the positive reinforcement! So I got the transmission in too! Next up will be to build tcase mount brackets that bolt on similar to the stock ones. My tcase is clocked a bit to help the front driveshaft clear the transmission, so the stock ones wont work, plus I'm pretty sure my transfer case is back by a small amount too.

I'll also be able to figure out where to put my transmission cross member. I've got one from a rrc. Hopefully more progress to report soon.

Daniel

[D90user]

Thanks all for the positive reinforcement! So I got the transmission in too! Next up will be to build tcase mount brackets that bolt on similar to the stock ones. My tcase is clocked a bit to help the front driveshaft clear the transmission, so the stock ones wont work, plus I'm pretty sure my transfer case is back by a small amount too.

I'll also be able to figure out where to put my transmission cross member. I've got one from a rrc. Hopefully more progress to report soon.

Daniel

Awesome- I was just going to text you to see if you wanted a hand bolting the tranny up.... guess you got that under control!
What do you mean by clocked? I'm having difficulty picturing how if it is rotated slightly how the drive shaft wont fit.

[1962siia88]

If it wasn't clocked the front output shaft from the tcase would be pointing right into the bottom edge of the chevy bellhousing. Its not that the drive shaft wont fit, its the stock tcase mounting brackets that wont fit anymore.

D

[TeriAnn]

If it wasn't clocked the front output shaft from the tcase would be pointing right into the bottom edge of the chevy bellhousing. Its not that the drive shaft wont fit, its the stock tcase mounting brackets that wont fit anymore.


I'm a little concerned when you wrote about the front prop shaft proximity to the underside of the bellhousing. When the front suspension is under full compression the front prop shaft can swing up quite a bit.

When you are ready to fit the front prop shaft you might check clearance for both simulated full compression and extension then keep a close look out for a metal to metal ring from contact when you first put it though its paces.

I had to grind some metal off the lower side of the bell housing (different from yours) for full up suspension compression and make a divot in the front top of the bulkhead cross member for additional clearance at full downward suspension expansion.

You may not have the same problem, but be aware that it might be an issue when fully exercising the suspension and keep an eye out for it.

Looking good so far. If you feel inclined to write a how-to web page of your conversion I would be happy to host it in my engine conversion section.

[1962siia88]

I'm a little concerned when you wrote about the front prop shaft proximity to the underside of the bellhousing. When the front suspension is under full compression the front prop shaft can swing up quite a bit.

Thanks Teriann. I most definitely will be paying attention to how my drive shaft functions under different angles. Remember I'm spring over axle though so I'll be surprised if my driveshaft swings up much at all. I dont have the front diff installed yet but I believe there is close to 10" of rise between the diff and the tcase. When I make my ubolt plates they will have some sort of vertical piece that will contact the stock frame bumpstop before anything bad happens and should limit up travel of the spring to 4-5". I was planning to weld a piece of 2"x4" tubing to the top of the ubolt plates for this. There is more weight to go on the rig before I'm done so this 10" measurement will decrease I'm sure, but I think I'll be ok.

I'm still not sure what I'm going go with for my front drive shaft. My current plan for version 1.0 is to use a modified RRC front shaft. I'm going to cut the splined slip joint off of one shaft and weld it on to another so it will have twice the travel. I'm going to keep the end flanges in their current relation to each other and hope for the best. :) The concept is to keep the front driveline geometry similiar to a coiler.

This project has been a big learning process. I keep telling myself that is why its taking so long.:rolleyes Any input on this appreciated.

Daniel

[airbornrover]

Might want to just get a custom'ish driveshaft from Great Basin Rovers or the like. Easier in the long run?

[JSBriggs]

Might want to just get a custom'ish driveshaft from Great Basin Rovers or the like. Easier in the long run?

I think the reason for going with the RRC front shaft is for the smaller diameter. That being said, if you are going to be doing custom work on a RRC shaft, you may as well upgrade to series yokes as the U-joints are better (and still available from Spicer, unlike teh coiler Ujoints).

-Jeff

[D90user]

If custom call Tom woods. IMHO there is not better option for the price.

[TeriAnn]

If custom call Tom woods. IMHO there is not better option for the price.

Having had teething problems in both shafts caused by trying to use different Rover prop shafts I have to agree that this is probably the best answer.

Rover slip joints are not very long. Ran out of slip joint (not long enough) in the rear eventually causing problems with the transfercase to adapter studs trying to pull out.

The Front prop shaft started off with clicking on occasion caused by the knuckles of the yolk hitting one another while rotating. Not enough clearance at the angle it was running when the suspension was extended in the downward direction. I had a divot added to the front top of the bulkhead cross member just below where the front prop shaft crosses over. This is standard for military 109 & I think the 109 One Ton. I still ended up with a scratch ring around the prop shaft where it rubbed on lower suspension articulation. And I had a second ring on the shaft directly below a bell housing flange from upward suspension articulation. I ground off some metal from the bell housing flange and eventually went to a smaller diameter front prop shaft with long slip joint and high angle yolks.

I think your best bet for both front an drear is to measure your static distance between the centre of each flange mating surface and the difference in round to centre distance of both mid flange mounting location. With static shaft length and difference in static yolk mounting heights go shopping for custom propshafts designed to properly fit your truck. I didn't know better and tried to make due with various LR stock shafts. It cost me extra money and ongoing teething problems.

Go with a company that had a long and good reputation with specific built rock crawlers. Tom Woods has the best reputation that I know of.

For something that seems so simple prop shafts can cause lots of ongoing problems if you try to adapt something designed for different angles and length. Save yourself the headaches & have custom ones made up by someone who knows what they are doing for modified rock crawlers.

I had Great Basin make up a set for me. The rear is still on and trouble free. The front showed twisting in less than 2 years from new and has been replaced by something Timm made up. And your engine is likely a lot more powerful than mine.

[1962siia88]

Hey folks:

So after much slacking I'm getting back on the project. I'm losing my parking spot for my 109/110 thing in a few months so I figure I better get this one done so I can bring the 109 home. I need deadlines!

Today I tackled the radiator. I cut the sheet metal on the inside of the breakfast panel that attached to the stock radiator and the bonnet latch mechanism. I also used a 3" hole saw to cut the backs off the head light buckets. Then I welded on a new top panel where the latch mechanism was to attach to the radiator and keep it in place at the top. For the bottom of the radiator I cut rectagular pieces out of an old tire and screwed them into the front cross member. The bottom of the radiator is a piece of channel that sits right on the rubber so it cant move. I made two brackets that go over the top of the radiator and then bolt on to the new top panel. Feels very solid and the radiator should stay in place nicely while off road.

I'm using the stock GM mechanical fan so I need to keep the fan clutch approx. 3/4" away from the radiator. It's spot on at this point. The radiator looks like its too tall, but it all fits under a deluxe hood that doesn't have the spare tire dish. It would not fit under any of the other hood types with out modification to the hood frames. I was running a standard hood, so the deluxe hood will take some getting used to.

Here are some pics. Next plan is to finish assembling the front axle.

[o2batsea]

Fit looks pretty good. Not second guessing you, but do you need the rad to be that tall? I had been running the IH 345 thru a 3 core radiator that is about 4 inches shorter and there were no cooling issues.
I'm a little concerned about chafe between the top brackets and the AL radiator. Plasti-Dip?

[1962siia88]

Yeah I will put something between the two pieces to protect them. I was thinking of lining the inside of the bracket with inner tube and cutting more tire to sit in the top channel of the radiator. Thanks for the plastidip idea, I hadn't thought of that.

As far as the radiator size I went with Timm Cooper's recommendation. I also figured the biggest one that would fit made the most sense. Thanks.

Daniel

[TeriAnn]

Yeah I will put something between the two pieces to protect them. I was thinking of lining the inside of the bracket with inner tube and cutting more tire to sit in the top channel of the radiator. Thanks for the plastidip idea, I hadn't thought of that.

Go to your local Orchard Supply store. In the cutting table area, usually under the cutting table they stock rubber pads of different types and thicknesses. For my bottom mount I used a shallow 'U' channel with a thick neoprene rubber padding. Plus a pad up against the side of the power steering box. My top mount is basically the same thing facing downward.

And don't forget that with a puller fan you should make a fan shroud.

I was going to show a picture or two but evidently have not learned how to attach them to a reply. Our radiators look to be about the same width but mine is an inch or two shorter and I''m using an electric fan from a V8 Mercedes mounted as a pusher. It is the largest dia that will fit in the radiator bulkhead.

[1962siia88]

Hey Teriann

What did you do for a fan shroud? I guess I should start by looking at one from a 2001 suburban which is what this engine came from. I did make a few changes to my top mounts so the brackets can't come in contact with the sides of the radiator tubes. I also had to rework them because I dropped the transmission down a few more degrees. This pulled the fan too far from the radiator so it needed to have the top lean back more.

I'd post a pic but I'm on my phone. My kid only gets to play video games for an hour or so on weekend days so he's on my laptop. :).

To post pics you can click on the paper clip thing up top and then choose a file.


Also started cutting interior sheet metal yesterday. Ive got the seat box started and the passenger floor too. I'll probably post more up later with pics. Thanks.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Spent all day remaking my tcase mounting brackets. As I said earlier I moved the trans down a few degrees so I had to remake the brackets. I wasn't happy with version 1 anyway. Also a pic of the start of my seat box mod. Never really done any sheet metal work so any good advice gladly taken. Here are some pics from today. Thanks.

[TeriAnn]

Hey Teriann

What did you do for a fan shroud? I guess I should start by looking at one from a 2001 suburban which is what this engine came from. I did make a few changes to my top mounts so the brackets can't come in contact with the sides of the radiator tubes. I also had to rework them because I dropped the transmission down a few more degrees. This pulled the fan too far from the radiator so it needed to have the top lean back more.

My mechanical fan sat low where the bottom third was below the radiator. I didn't keep it on very long. Electric pusher fans don't need shrouds, only pullers.

I had a home made shroud. Sheet metal the height of the radiator (or in my case the height of the radiator plus the front cross member) and wider than the radiator. Cut a round hole for the fan then bend the sides in plus a second bend for the mounting flange. Weld a strip at top & bottom to make a box. Much better than trying to align a shroud made for a different shape radiator and fan location. The shroud is real important for puller fan cooling so do it right by making one that fits your application.

Interesting transfercase mounts. My transfercase is in the stock front to rear location but moved over a couple inches to the passenger side. Engine & gearbox assy. is parallel to the frame and centered more than the 4 cyl drive train is. I use the stock cross member with the mounting brackets moved over a little and the transfercase brake bell crank reworked a little to be flatter.

Mathew Jackson cut off the stock transfercase mount and is using one from a Disco I. He is also using an NP435.

Yours is the first I have seen that has two brackets instead of a single bar. Did you reenforce the frame where the brackets bolt, like you do for the power steering mounts on the frame??? Thoughts about adding a reenforcing cross rail between the brackets? The torque from your engine will be trying to twist the drive train. The rear propshaft will be trying to twist the transfercase along its rotating axis when you are moving under compression. I bet there is a reason that the factory used a beefy cross member that spanned the frame instead of individual mounts like they do for the engine. Just a suggestion that you look at the mounts & mounting from the perspective of rotating torque forces if you have not already done so.

For people following along and thinking of a future swap, Advance adapters now has adapters to go from a number of beefy US truck gearboxes to the Series transfercase. Mathew Jackson is the contact person @ Advance Adapters for these. And of course I have a web page:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/advance_Adapter.htm

So paper clip for pictures. I'll try it. The following is a test:

[TeriAnn]

How 'bout that! The pictures seem to work. Thanks for the how-to. The pictures include the accelerator pedal assy I used from a 200tdi Defender with wire linkage. I had to modify the assembly a little to get it to fit in a Series bulkhead. I added this when I went from a carb to Mustang EFI.

The small block Ford engine is a tad longer than the Chevy small block to make room for the front mounted distributor. My front crossmember was cut out, moved forward one inch and welded back on. New radiator bulkhead mount holes were drilled an inch to the rear so the radiator bulkhead sits in the stock location.

The mounting for the stock Series clutch slave cylinder. With the slave cylinder horizontal and the line a straight drop down from the SIII master cylinder my clutch the is self bleeding. Just pour fluid in & pump the pedal a bunch of times. In 12 years I've never had to bleed the circuit even though I rebuilt the cylinder and replaced the flex house a few times.

Another picture is the yolks I now use vs the factory stock one.

[1962siia88]

Hey Teriann:

My pics may not be clear or I may need coffee, but I did keep the stock tcase cross member in its original location. I'm also using the stock bushings minus the metal shims. I drilled holes in the cross member for the bushings and bolt them to the cross member from underneath. The factory provided a nice big hole on the bottom too.

My brackets attach to the tcase like the stock ones do and go forward a few inches to the tcase cross member.

I still need to replace the cross member under the engine. Haven't decided if I'll make one or try to use the rrc cross member I have sitting here.

The brackets are thick. Drivers side is 3/8" and passenger side is 1/4". Hopefully they will be able to stand the forces applied to them.

Thanks.

Daniel

[TeriAnn]

Hey Teriann:

My pics may not be clear or I may need coffee, but I did keep the stock tcase cross member in its original location.

:confused :confused :confused

Ah, OK I see it now. I didn't know which direction was which from your photos of the mounted brackets & transfercase. I didn't know which way was up so thought the brackets were attached to the frame side rails. Sorry for getting excited when you had things under control.

[1962siia88]

Hey all:

So I'm moving all my vehicle stuff to a new shop. I got the keys last week, so now I'm really motivated to get this thing so it can roll so I can tow it out of here and get it inside before it starts raining.

I've spent the last few afternoons working on getting the steering all set up. I'm almost there and think I'll be done with this part of the project by next week. I welded up the other swivel housing and did all the geometry about where my tie rod ends will need to be and I started building my steering arms.

Today I ordered a "Chevy crossover steering kit" from Ruff Stuff Specialties. It's basically gm 1 ton tre's with some weld in hex head tre adapters and 1" I.D. .25" dom tubing. The drag link will get the high angle gm 1 ton tre's. Hopefully this stuff will arrive Saturday and I'll be able to get it all together soon after that.

Here are some pics of how my passenger side steering arm fits. In the end I was able to get 4 M10 1.5 bolts through the 3/4" plate steering arms. After mocking it up for the pics I added another piece of 3/16" plate to the side of the arm.

The drivers side arm pieces are cut and drilled and ready to be welded. If I'm happy with how this thing steers then I'll probably have some one piece arms machined to match these. Anyway here are some pics from today and another of me towing my 109 to the shop with my Brat!

[bjf]

I would like to know more about that sweet brat!!

[1962siia88]

I would like to know more about that sweet brat!!

That's my daily driver at the moment! I've had it for 4 years or so. I had a remote control brat when I was a kid, so decided I needed a real one.

I swapped in an ej22 motor from a legacy and a 5sp dual range tranny from a loyale. Its got a 4in lift in the front and 3in in the back. 15" Peugeot wheels, limited slip rear diff. Super fun in the snow and it gets close to 30 miles per gallon. Smog legal in California too. I think its the only ej powered brat in California at the moment. There was another one is S.Cal but it got rear ended and totaled.

Lots of info on this swap at the ultimatesubaru.org

Daniel

[oilburner]

Cool rig. I am thinking of selling one of my sleds this winter to build a Scoob Justy on ATV tracks. I think it would be awesome.

[o2batsea]

I would like to know more about that sweet brat!!

http://www.familychoicefoods.com/image/40551014.jpg

[1962siia88]

Hey there:

So the high steering set up is basically finished. Had trouble over the last few weeks and ended up having to make a few sets of steering arms because of my general lack of skill. This last set seems to work perfectly and there is plenty of clearance between the tre's and the tires, the track rod and the springs, the drag link and the passenger side spring and the pitman arm and the frame. Doesn't look like anything will hit or make contact where it shouldn't during axle articulation.

So the final setup uses gm 1 ton tre's and gm 1 ton high angle tre's for the drag link. The track rod and drag link are made from 1" ID .25" wall DOM. I bought this stuff from Ruff Stuff Specialties in Sacramento as a diy kit. So now the truck rolls and steers. Next up will be to weld the threaded inserts into the tubing.

Soon as that is done I'll be moving the rig down to my new shop in Oakland. I'll be really happy to have it out of the weather.

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Looks good Daniel! Any plans to put a pipe cap diff cover on?

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

Thanks Jeff. I haven't decided yet, but it does seem like my most vulnerable spot up front, doesn't it? I will definitely have some form of protection there for sure. I haven't assembled the front axle yet so I guess if I'm going to cap it now would be the time. Thanks for the input.

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

You can pick up an 8" weld on pipe cap at Windustrial. The last one I bought was about $35 or $40. An afternoon with a grinder and a welder and your golden. How is the new shop space? Any pics?

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

Made the move today. It went just fine. The Catahoula rig did a great job towing the 88. Here are some shots in its new home.

Daniel

[phoenix37]

Thanks going to be a bad ass rig. Nice work!

[JSBriggs]

Love the space. Just in time for winter.

Is that Ian? Man, he is getting big. How many stalls do you get? I dont see teh GT6 in there...yet.

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

Thanks guys. Yeah thats Iain. He is not a little guy anymore,more of a shaggy bean pole now. He was a big help yesterday actually.

I only have one bay at the shop at this point although I may split another one with one of the other guys. The gt6 is staying in Crockett for the time being. Although now it can actually fit in my garage. Soon as the 88 is done I'll move the gt6 down there and begin its transformation. That is going to be a really fun car! Thinking of a 2jzge with a w58 trans.

So we will probably have a shop warming party in the next month. I'll keep you posted.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

So today I sewer capped the front axle. Fifteen minutes with the grinder and the stock cap was off. I took about 3/8" off the sewer cap to match the height of the stock cap. I cut the fill plug out with a hole saw, and welded it in place on the sewer cap. On the axle housing there are large grooves for the ring gear to fit into. I had to add some metal here and will probably have some grinding to do on the inside, but the sewer cap wouldn't cover these grooves entirely. Preheated the cap and housing with map gas for a short bit and then welded the cap in place. Its cooling and tomorrow I'll test fit the diff and grind as necessary for it to fit. Here are some pics.

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Very nice! Although that still looks like your driveway. :grin

[1962siia88]

Uh yeah.... Potential power issues at the shop. I've got to work something out with the landlord before I can hook up a 50 amp 220 circuit for the welder. The service panel in our space powers much of the building so we need to figure out what is what before I go changing anything. Hopefully only a temporary problem. I could get a smaller welder but I love the big crusty old Hobart.

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Im all for you getting a smaller welder, and passing the the big dinosaur on to me. :grin The up side is that it looks like you are past the fabrication stage, and on the assembly stage. FWIW my shop is currently powered by a 15amp 110v extension cord. Your power issue at the shop could get expensive.

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

I wish I was past the fab stage! The rear axle housing is getting moved back 4" and the rear springs are getting moved outboard of the chassis, then a cage of some sort, then I'll be "done". Ill get the welder figured out hopefully in the near future. I'm short by one pole on the panel. Hopefully I can combine some outlet or light circuits to free up space. There are also several 50 amp 220v circuits not being used on the panel. I just don't know where they go or what they do.

Lots of assembly stuff to keep me busy for the near future. Paint and assemble the front end next. Then maybe hydraulic stuff and electrical. I sure hope I get this thing done for Mendo!

Daniel

[JBinAlabama]

This is a GREAT build!

[1962siia88]

Thanks very much! I really want to drive it! Wish I had more time to put into it.

Daniel

[1962siia88]

Well I finally got some time to work on my truck today. I spent time working on the assembly of the front axle and it's pretty close to done. Got the swivels all together preload set and installed the diff and axle shafts and cv's. Got the stub axles on and then did a test fit of my avm free wheeling hubs which fit great. I took the hubs back off and will get them cleaned up with new bearings and rotors. For brakes I'll be using disco calipers with the spacers from rrc calipers for vented rotors. Put the drag link and track rod back on too.

Sorry no pics today. Forgot to bring the camera.

Cheers

Daniel

[texrover]

I added this when I went from a carb to Mustang EFI.

TeriAnn, what's your average MPG in the 109 with the V8?

[1962siia88]

Hey folks

So today I finished installing my front hubs. The new rotors are looking good and the avm hubs fit and seem to work properly. Here are a few pics from today. Next up will be to make new plates for the u bolts and then install brake calipers.

Daniel

Ps- first post from forum runner on my iPhone. Hopefully it works.

[JSBriggs]

Woah! Is that Mexican chrome on the front housing?

-Jeff

[1962siia88]

Woah! Is that Mexican chrome on the front housing?

-Jeff

Que? If by that you mean plastic then no. The shiny bits are actually metal. The knob you turn to engage the hub is plastic. I wish there was a nicer fwh for this but there isn't. Many people told me these ones didn't exist so I'm just happy I got something.

I know of a few people using the mile marker version of these fwh on series rigs with no problems over several years of use. I'm hoping for the best.

Daniel

------ Follow up post added April 9th, 2012 02:20 PM ------

Woah! Is that Mexican chrome on the front housing?

-Jeff

Maybe you're referring to the lovely paint job on my axle housing! That is silver wheel paint over epoxy primer. Cue up the sanford and son music!

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

Maybe you're referring to the lovely paint job on my axle housing! That is silver wheel paint over epoxy primer. Cue up the sanford and son music!

Daniel

ding ding ding. (chrome spray paint)

-Jeff

[D90user]

Looking great!
I dig the silver (chrome)... why not.

Whats next? are you still moving the rear springs outboard?

[1962siia88]

Yes definitely still moving the rear springs. Still no welder at the shop for big stuff although I got the ok to hook it up from the landlord.

Next up is the front spring plates then probably rebuild front calipers then start the work on my bulkhead and tunnel cover.

Daniel