Not so small project - 6BT and other mods

[16kpsi]

Well, this may almost turn into a full restore. I'm on the fence about a new frame right now. Front and mid is in good shape, but one outrigger looks marginal and both rear frame legs post axle have been replaced/re-welded - and considering what I'm putting in it, having reliable strength back there may be....important. Anyone pulling a trailer from New Orleans to California any time soon?

Goal is a 6BT Cummins, NV4500, LT230. Want to preserve OEM geometry from the T-case and mount back. Yes, I'll deal with strength issues as they manifest. Goal is not to build a rock crawler, but a rig that can climb the 7,200ft Donner Pass with impunity, maybe towing a medium trailer. The 200tdi just doesn't cut it on California Sierra highways.

Motor is from a Ford F700. 175 HP 1997 unit. A few relatively simple mods will put it at 4000 rpm redline and about 300 hp. With a 1.22 t-case and the nv4500, this will give me the speeds I want (32 in tires). A 1.4 would work as well - I have both right now - but will start with the 1.2.

Mating the NV to the Cummins is a stock mount up. The LT to NV is a little more of an issue. I haven't spoken with AA yet, but they still only list the Series box adapter. The Marks TH adapter kit is...pricey, but again, need to speak to AA as they are the US distributor I believe. Worse case is I'll be building a plate and adapter spud shaft in 300M. I know the adapter spud shaft is a somewhat controvercial way to go, but properly built in 300M is should give me 2:1 strength in low gear even with the OEM lt230 spline. I'm trying to avoid making a custom output NV shaft or LT input gear - a straight bolt up as it were. I have CNC capabilities here. Female spline on the spud will have to be EDM'd.

Got the interior torn out. Get to rebuild and glavanize my Tee posts. Surprise. Steve (D90user) has been great at 'suggesting' improvements - you know, while you're at it...

Motor pic says it all. It's a big unit. There is currently a large compressor on the motor's driver side down low(air brake unit). Not sure if I can keep it, but it'd sure be nice. Oil pan and crossing the exhaust will be a pain.

Ian's red ST 90 can be seen in one shot - yes, the one from the Seattle IAAI auction. Not in bad shape. over all.

Should have done this while I was doing the LHD conversion, but it was nice to drive it for awhile.

Oh, and I'll be changing it over to an ST while I'm at it. Might as well while I've got it apart as I learned from the dash conversion. For those following my desire to create molds for the overmolding replacement - still happening, but may get bumped a little.

This may take awhile.....

[130Tdi]

Tony,
Isn't the weight difference huge ? JL/Oilburner here had a 6bt in a 109 but thats with leaf springs. I realize you have a submarine maint shop there that can make anything but it just seems like the truck will be extremely nose heavy and would be challenging to drive. Guess I have to ship your stuff since you posted pictures.

[James Pierce]

I don't think the LT230 will like that much torque. Since nothing else is rover why not use an atlas?

[JSBriggs]

I don't think the LT230 will like that much torque. Since nothing else is rover why not use an atlas?

Have you ever seen an atlas and an LT230 side by side? Any guesses which is bigger?

-Jeff

[Shane@EVS]

In my opinion you should reconsider your engine choice. and the transmission to.

I think the Cummins 4bt is a better choice due to size and weight. Power upgrades are readily available and 250hp and 500ftlbs is pretty easily attained.

The problem with the NV4500 tranmission is the large gap between the gears. I would look at 6spd options. The 4k spring kit does help with the gear gaps.

The 1.2 tcase is too low with your above described combo. You will want to get a 1:1 tcase or go up to 37" tires.

The engine may spin up to 4000rpm, but it will not really like it. If you want to get good fuel economy you need to have the engine under 2000 rpm at cruising speed.

[James Pierce]

Please ignore my first post.

[16kpsi]

I knew there would be....comments...and I appreciate all thoughts and experience. Please keep in mind my primary intent - Getting to the Sierras. A hauler. Some fire trails. Being able to get in and out of a snowy, slippery mountain driveway with little to no road maintenance(big heavy nose may or may not be an asset there). Don't know if I'll ever do the Rubicon - 'spose I should have stipulated some of this initially.

Doug - it's about 400 lbs heavier than the 200TDI. That sounds like a lot, but it is practically equal to two guys sitting on the front bumpers. In practice, this didn't do that much to my ride height. Adding heavy duty, or having a set of customs made once it's all said and done, will address ride height. As for drivability - to be seen. For runs to Nordstroms, shouldn't be an issue. On the main highways out here - mostly straight - I also don't seen an issue. On highway turns, I'll have to see how it behaves and address the need of sways at that time. I don't think the OEM front sways will work any more with the 6BT pan. TBD. Tire wear and rating I'll certainly be looking at. For slow crawling, it could be a real issue to lift that heavy nose - but as blasphemous as it is - my 110 will see very little of that type of use. Mostly fire roads when off road. I don't haul more than 4 people, so it's not a hit on my passenger payload. I have to watch my GVW when towing, etc...

James - no way I'll ignore it, it's a good question (if not an Atlas, some other T-case). Some of it has to do with not wanting to change axle input (lt230 being front and rear offset). But to be honest, I'm starting out trying to keep SOME oem components. I like the functionality of the LT for my purposes. But I am looking at other options - I'd be dumb not to as the the NV to LT mating is a PITA. I have not been able to find anything that says what the LT's rating is. If I start blowing them up - I'll know - and we all learn. Plus, I happened to end up with two at my disposal all of a sudden - so I can install one while reworking the other if needed.

Shane - I certainly am heeding what you have to say. As far as I can tell, the numbers are good (speed and torque wise) for the drive train up to 65 MPH (where I'd hit 2200 rpm using the 1.2 LT), which will be 90% of my driving - Ashcroft has a good calculator now that lets you look at rpm/speed/shift point. Beyond that speed....well, milage would be a lesser concern. I realize I may want to go to a 1.1 or 1.0 box if the 1.2 doesn't work out (or increase tire size, but not my first choice). If you think I have my head up my a$$, please feel free to tell my. Or did you already do that?

I KNOW the 6BT is not the best choice for a lot of reasons - and may actually be a bad choice. But it is a relatively cheap and serviceable, powerful, diesel engine in the US market. And no small part of this is to tinker, learn, have some fun, ....and no doubt be annoyed when I start destroying things.

flame away, gents :)

[James Pierce]

James - no way I'll ignore it, it's a good question

I was trying to avoid getting into a debate as to which was stronger. I really don't have the time to go through that again and only want to encourage you in your build. I completely understand your reasoning for needing the offset output of the LT I once came to the same conclusion. I have to agree with shane though about the transmission and gearing. The 6BT really performs well below 2000 and the gear splits of the 4500 are terrible for a daily driver.

Adapting an NV to LT will also require that you rotate the LT counter clockwise so that the diff lock housing clears the over drive housing on the back of the NV or at least that was my experience. I guess since you have a 110 you could make the adaptor longer since rear driveshaft angle is not an issue.

Have you given any thought to addressing the issue 4500's had when mated to the 6BT? I believe the nut that holds 5th gear on the output shaft had a tendency to loosen due to the vibration of the cummins.

Keep us posted and we need more pic's!

Sane, I recently saw your 4BT D90 in the Expo / Vanishing America video. Pretty Cool!

[holtwebb]

Hey everyone. I'm the guy with the D90 that Shane built. Love that truck! Here are some pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9846236@N02/sets/72157622714405068/

It's at The Shop (www.roverrepairshop.com) right now getting some work done. Owning this truck has been a bit of an experience, and though many people have offered to buy it, I won't sell. :)

Anyway... here's how it all shakes out...

The 4bt is a beast. I've gone everywhere with it and have had no problems other than my own inexperience (snow, sand, rocks, mud, etc.). There are gaps in the gears, but like Shane said, the 4000 spring might solve that issue. Also, the EGTs (Exhaust Gas temps) can get high on the freeway if you are pulling a hill over 55mph. 1st gear is a granny gear and I never even use it -- even on the trail. For all its good looks, cushy ride and capability, the motor is quite loud and the truck seems to act more like a tractor than a car. It has little pep, just torque... sort of a "steady as she goes" climber. It'll pull a stump out of the ground, but will get blown off the line by a kid on a tricycle.

With that being said, however, there is a solution that a lot of 4bt guys have told me might solve everything...
Given my symptoms, and having seen the truck in action on the Carbon Neutral Expedition (www.carbonneutralexpedition.com), all the guys (and these are dudes who are building their own trucks with 4bt motors and other types of diesels) tell me that the timing is off. Now, I've had the timing set, but they tell me that though it might look okay on the outside, it might be only one tooth off on the inside. Taking the cover off and aligning the teeth correctly should make that 4bt run like a hot rod. That's what they say, anyway. We'll see soon, I guess. :)

I love that truck, and to think that it could run quick, smooth, fast and reliably really stokes my embers!

[James Pierce]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/4066573643_38678a99bf_z.jpg?zz=1

That's Sick!

What milage are you averaging?

[130Tdi]

Has been done.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwqGaVU8Vug&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxKFu_wb0Gg&feature=related

[oilburner]

Based on my experience driving my 6BT powered 109 across the country and as a daily driver work truck for a year or two...

I get the 6BT question a lot, and I can say I do not usually recommend it. It's a brute of an engine and takes some serious shoehorning. It fits great in a 109 with a spring over but it definitely takes some creativity to route the exhaust and fit everything in. The blue hi cap on youtube seems to work great too. I really liked mine (it's apart for some work) but it is not for everyone and the main downside is the noise. It will get to you. Sound deadening is not optional, if you do one thing over the top, do that.

The engine I used was a 1993 Dodge engine with a VE pump (similar to the one in the blue hicap). This is the most docile 6BT. The 7100 pumps are louder and rougher engines, plus heavier as the pump is physically larger. I prefer the little VE pumped motors. They are not as good for huge horsepower but with a couple of mild tweaks will put out 550 ft lbs and 220-250hp. This is enough to turn your 110 into a rocket.

They are smoother than a 4BT and although you will get some mild vibrations at idle (to give you a reference, you will feel it a bit and the defender rearview mirrors will shake just a bit, enough that you can't really see out of them that clearly), anything off idle and it's smooth. 2000 at cruise is too high. You want to gear it lower than that. There is plenty of power and torque to drive a higher gear. With 3.54 and smallish tires I would bet that 1.003 T case gears would work best. My truck ran 37s with 4.10s and with the auto in overdrive (same gears as an NV4500) I was always looking for another gear. I am hoping for 1600 RPMs at 60 mph with my new setup (nv4500).

I use a 1.003 LT230, it has worked great, no issues. I am sure I could break it if I was beating on it very hard, I have pulled 8K lbs and had the throttle floored up some long grades at 25+ PSI boost and never a whimper, as well as some low range beating on 38 inch tires and it worked great.

With a 5 speed you are going to want to use a very small turbo hot side housing, something like 12 cm3. That will make it spool up quick and give you lots of boost early on. I am going to use a mechanical variable geometry turbo, like a 2.8HS. We'll see how it works out.

Rover driveshafts will die. Forget about using stock driveshafts and rear axleshafts. You will literally blow them up. I use LandCruiser double cardan units, all forged, stronger than 1 ton stuff. Most of the drivetrain needs to be beefed up big time. You will also need to beef up the frame where the mounts attach. You would do well to reinforce the whole thing.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_4upFa-cgvrY/SNgxeyCerGI/AAAAAAAAA-s/0u3Qi9eaALQ/s576/DSCF1074.JPG

In Moab... Drove out from Ottawa, averaged about 20 mpg on 37s, blasted up the pass out of Denver and even passed a Porsche (it really hauls uphill). Only thing I hated was the auto, the 5 speed will be way better.

[16kpsi]

Thanks for the info guys. I know this is no trivial project. Thanks for the pics Holt, great truck

JL, thanks for the specifs. Figured I'd be upgrading on down the line.... but gotta get it in there first. Trying to come up with a 'simple' NV to LT adapter right now. Need to find that jobber main shaft.....

[oilburner]

I got your PM, looks like you found a source for the shaft. I have not verified that it will work but I am thinking that it should be 35 spline.

I would be interested in the splining but I am doing something else with mine, NP203 doubler in between the N4500 and the LT230, so I will have a 32 spline output to deal with, which means a 32 spline input gear. I will probably cut the splines myself or seek out someone local.

JL

[16kpsi]

Well, so much for the off-the-shelf solution. The P-van shaft (p/n 25331) is a great length but has a 32 spline on it (not the anticipated 35 spline) - not in itself an issue...but no threads or spline for 5th gear. I was worried it might not have the 'fix' for the notorious 5th gear failure in the nv4500, but I guess I was worried about the wrong thing....

So I'll be grinding the Dodge 2wd shafts down to Shane's 32 spline - the GM 35 spline is to large an OD for the Dodge shaft.

I'm going to have three sets of NV4500 mainshafts done - I was only going to do my 1.2 LT gear with the the female and see how that works gearing wise - if need be, I'll do a 1.003 latter - EDM plug will probably do 2-3 broaches. If anyone is interested (or knows of anyone interested) have them get in touch and we can do a low number run.

Dodge mainshaft with 5th gear spline and threads and big 31 spline on top.
GM P-van shaft with smaller 32 spline but no 5th gear features on bottom.

[oilburner]

That second spline for the 2WD dodge shaft is for the speedo drive, not 5th gear. Both shafts have 5th gear spline, only one is full spline, the other one partial. If you an keep them tight there is no problem.

I did not know about the lack of threads, that sucks.

Maybe it would be easier to simply thread the area behind the 5th gear spline for a lock nut?

If you do not end up using that shaft I might buy it from you.

Edit: not sure anymore. Will look into this later.

[16kpsi]

That second spline for the 2WD dodge shaft is for the speedo drive, not 5th gear. Both shafts have 5th gear spline, only one is full spline, the other one partial. If you an keep them tight there is no problem.

I did not know about the lack of threads, that sucks.

Maybe it would be easier to simply thread the area behind the 5th gear spline for a lock nut?


it's weirder than that. The '5th' gear partial spline is smaller than the one on the dodge shaft. Area for threading is too small an OD too. Not sure what they had going on with this shaft....but I don't think you'll want it either way!

[oilburner]

You have a later HD Dodge shaft with a full spline from a diesel. They are 35 spline. The GM and light duty dodge ones are 31 spline. The early ones (both GM and Dodge, LD and HD) only have half spline engagement into 5th gear. The spline area is enough for torque transfer but it causes other issues due to the geometry.

The 2wd GMs had a long tube spacer that was crushed between the yoke and the gear. It kept everything tight an is impervious to loosening like the Dodge setup. Unfortunately it would be difficult to use this setup with an LT230 as setting length would be very complex, with shims etc.

I am using a LD NV4500 from a 1998 gas dodge. I feel that in a LR application it is more than enough strength, and is compatible with both GM and Dodge mainshafts. Mine will run a 32 spline output from a GM 4x4, into a 32 spline NP203, then a 32 spline output to the LT230. Should work well.

[16kpsi]

Ah.

I haven't torn down my GM 2wd NV yet (this weekend), so I haven't looked at that yoke/5th gear detail. Makes some sense now. yeah, it would be difficult to create a crush or capture detail for 5th with the LT attachment.

cutting a 32 spline into the LT gear (1.375" OD) should be pretty straight forward. Went by a wire EDM shop today and they felt it should be doable no problem - so long as they can cut straight through. Rough price quote was very reasonable - particularly if I generate the DXF spline file. To do the larger 1.5" OD GM spline it would have to be blind - requires a sinker - so a tool needs to be cut. Price goes up a fair amount.

wait, so you're going to double your LT reduction with the NP box?

[oilburner]

There was a thread on Pirate where some of us we trying to figure out if a 35 spline pattern can be cut inside an LT230 input and the consensus was pretty much that 32 is the biggest any of us wanted to try because we were concerned about weakening the gear.

Do you have a figure for reasonable re: EDM? I can cut an internal spline but it takes a long time and I'd think an EDM would do a wonderful job. Would you reharden it afterwards? I would be concerned about getting right through the surface hardening on the gear, but rehardening might affect the gear tooth surface too. I think with 2-3 inches of spline engagement, I would do the file test and if any harder than mild steel I'd run it as-is.

I am going to try and run a doubler before the T case. There are a few reasons. With the dodge tailhousing, the LT230 needs to be spaced back quite a bit as the T case encroaches on the tailhousing (due to the minimal offset of the LT230), so with the NP203, I can clock the reduction box out of the way and give myself a bit of space for the driveshaft. With the length of the adapters required for the other setup the doubler only really lengthens the driveline by 4 inches and it allows me to use all off-the-shelf shafts for adapting.

[16kpsi]

yeah, I saw the thread(s) on pirate. The Dodge 31 spline (20/40 spline? - 1.61" OD) is, in my opinion also, too big - as it cuts into the bearing mount surfaces of the LT gear significantly (a female spline needing a bigger OD than the male it is receiving unless you want to work on an OD fit spline which isn't really the right application here).

The GM 35 spline (24/48 spline - 1.50" OD) is, to me, a perfect spline for the LT gear. It is just inside the counterbore in the LT gear, so it will not cut into the bearing mount surfaces - however, on the PTO side, it will come close to cutting off the PTO drive gear if broached or EDM'd straight through. Blind or sinker style would work, but a much more costly way to cut a spline.

This P-van shaft is a strange (for GM) 32 spline (24/48 spline - 1.38" OD) - I beleive the same spline Roverhybrids put in his 4bt conversion. Would love to use this shaft and having now opened my GM 2wd tranny, I see how 5th is held - but as you said - capturing it with a t-case creates an issue. Nice thing about this spline is it doesn't hurt the PTO output gear and allows through boaching or wire EDM (the cheapest) - so this is the spline I'm going with.

I got a part-in-hand questimate from my wire EDM guy at couple hundred bucks - not bad. No anneal required and in theory no post heat treat required. The reason for this is 1) EDM is a cold cut process - temp doesn't go above 70-80 deg F supposedly and 2) the EDM process re-flows the metal surface down a couple of thousandths - this in theory creates a usable hard surface for splines if cutting through the case hardeded surface - so no post surface hardening required. Looking into it, manufactures are doing this now for this reason - no post spline HT required of precision ground and broached parts as this process always creates movement. I will do a surface hardness test just to see where it's at post process.

Yeah - I know I'm going to run into LT to NV case interferance and am waiting to see how bad or how much I have to move things to deal with it. I think this is why Roverhybrids clocked his T-case so much, but to be determined.

[16kpsi]

*beat head here*

swayed the motor/tranny assembly in this weekend. LOTS of room. (no surprise to some. It's a game of 1/8"s). After removing the AC compressor, the intake horn, the air brake compressor, the oil filler, the heater hose neck, and everything else sticking out - it's finally getting close to 'fitting'.

length is an issue. The front harmonic balancer and the front cross member are far enough apart (1-1/4") to allow me to change the s-belt, but that's about it. At the other end, the shifter stalk is just in front of the battery box. As well as the middle x-member to the t-case - close enough that I'm not sure I can remove the t-case independently of half removing the motor. I'm going to try push the assembly it even further forward and possible modify the front x-member to allow harmonic balancer removal (and subsequent service of the motor front end gear train without pulling the engine).

Height is an issue - particularly at the very front valve cover and mid-engine at the air horn (probably build a custom one of those...). Also on the Pside at the steering box. If I can get a little more height, I can possibly get the oem steering box back in - else I have to consider the fit of a p38 box (which has it's advantages).

on the plus side, going so far forward and up, I think I can avoid modifying the bulkhead. But pretty much a custom tunnel cover for sure....

to get all that forward and up....looks like a Puma hood is needed. great. Anyone need a standard hood? good condition.

and no, my hood is not pee green underneath - it's usually white.

[D90user]

I just noticed your build thread.
Looking great Tony.

I'm amazed you wont have to alter the bulkhead, that is one thing that will be easier than expected!

If a puma hood fits your in buisness....now there is just everything else:)

Looks like the compressor is still attached... will it fit?

[16kpsi]

Looks like the compressor is still attached... will it fit?

Hey Steve - compressor is out for now. In the first pic on the bottom you can see a blanking plate. It may still fit in the end, but this gives me room to work and get to the mounts. Doubt it'd fit with the P38 box, but if I get the height, it may work with the stock steering box. If not, a vacuum pump and the p-steering pump will go in there. I'd have to run a compressor off the NV's PTO port (I don't think I can get my LT PTO on with the way things are stacking up)

found the rear oil pick up on e-bay. At least that's been 'easy'

[D90user]

You dont need a puma hood... you need this:
http://www.d-90.com/forum/showpost.php?p=273213&postcount=411

[oilburner]

Interesting - I ran mine 2-3 inches lower than that and further back I think, but ou need a scout or P38 box (worth it). The rear valve cover is 1/4 inch from the bulkhead on mine, where is yours?. I went as far back and high as could with a flat hood but it means more bulkhead mods (Series bulkhead). Find an air horn from a 1st gen dodge, it should be shorter.

Wit an auto it was a real mess, with all the extra linkage and cooler and lines. This looks great.

[130Tdi]

My first 110 had a Toyota 2h. A big long 4 liter six cyl diesel. The front cross member was actually notched to make room for the engines length. Its was well done and didn't seem to have been much of or any strength compromise.....

[16kpsi]

JL - yeah, I recall you saying you were right up against your bulkhead and I was trying to go that way. Right now I have a good 3" at the bulkhead - which has it's advantages - but the length of the NV puts it's shifter assembly into my battery box if I move back. Trying not to go there, as it starts to be a mess....plus the bellhousing starts to hit all around when I get back in that area (not as big a deal, already in for a custom tunnel). The auto must be a little shorter - and probably doesn't have that big shifter hump the NV has at it's back end. I'm also really concerned I won't be able to pull the t-case independent of the whole drive train because I'm getting close to the mid x-member. Pretty sure I can release the tranny mount/x-member and lower the back end, then pull the t-case. But TBD.

Doug - I was considering that notch as well. Not so much to allow clearance, but for service. Looks like I can avoid it for now. About 1" off the front x-member gives just enough room to pull the balancer and work on the front end.

It's a long assembly

Definitely need a p38 box though...

Steve - I'm gonna find one of those aberrations and come glue it to the hood of your ambo in the middle of the night and take plenty of pics just for posting that.

[oilburner]

Battery box in the seatbox? I hate to armchair qback but can you lower the drivetrain a bit? I am switching to an NV and it fits under the seatbox (series). Maybe you can alter the battery box? It just seems to me like the further you get that massive oilpan away from the front axle, the better, and it will help with weight dist.

The NV is shorter overall than the auto but it is fatter. Timm Cooper used to reverse the top shift cover but it requires major machining. I might try this to move the shifter forwards.

[16kpsi]

Hey JL - no worries about arm chairing. All insights welcome - hell, you just got me looking at reversing my shifter cover (symetric pattern, so there must have been a design reason or even a reversed build. Still working on getting my head around what gets modified to make it work. Not trivial)

No, no battery box issue - sorry for the confusion - just the seat box. Yeah, I can tip the motor back and get the cover under the middle seatbox, but the shifter is too far back - so back to that cover flip idea. I'm looking at moving the motor back as you suggest - but it means cutting the bulkhead all around right up to the fuse box. I have to cut it anyway on the right side, so I guess in for penny....curious if you had to mod the series bulkhead much? I also have the starter right up against the LH box at the fuel pedal. Don't want to mod into that area....but if I shift anymore right, the t-case hits the right frame rail. fun.

[oilburner]

I had to enlarge the transmission hump opening quite a bit, but I did not have to alter either footwells. I think the earlier SII/SIIA bulkhead makes it an easier swap, but the biggest issue is the starter.

I presume you are using a stock NV4500/6BT adapter plate from a 94+ Dodge. I believe this places that starter out further than the adapter plate from a 1989-1993 1st gen Dodge, which is the one I use. I also use a bellhousing from a Getrag G360 transmission, adapted to the NV4500 (couple of holes redrilled). With this setup, the engine fits between the footwells and the transfer case can be positioned about 1" off the right side frame rail. Everything clears with just enough room. The engine ends up offset to the driver's side slightly, but that works wonders for the turbo location.

You might be able to work something out for the starter, but if you end up needing photos and measurements of the 1st gen setup, I have the engine on a pallet in the shop, easy to snap a few photos.

I was told by timm that swapping the cover was a real pain. I need to do this too so maybe we can combine our efforts, but I am in the middle of another project and need to finish it before moving on to the LR...

[16kpsi]

OK - Bulkhead mods done. (well, some weld dressing to do, but you get the picture)

JL - yes, I'm using the 94-97 standard adapter and bellhousing. The starter could easily be clocked up the motor more (in design) which would be nice. I'm gonna stick with this set-up and just accomodate the starter. I want to do the flipped shifter too - as it puts the shifter almost int he original position. I may just make a whole new cover instead of butchering what I have. I'll keep you posted. Making one is the b****, two and three are easy)

Motor is sitting 3 3/8" back from the front cross member (to front of the harmonic balancer). I have about 1" of room between the bulkhead 'bump' for the electrical fuse block and the head. Gives me room for insulation and sound damping. Any further back and the t-case will hit the cross member at the back of the battery/seat box. I'm pretty much on centerline - this gives me room for the t-case on one side and room (now) for the starter.

Had to mod the bulkhead quite a bit. Moved the left (driver) side wall at the gas pedal 1" out. Also moved the pedal assembly as well. I cut up my LT77 tunnel adapter and welded it to the bulkhead. Had to add 1" in height and 3" in width (last pic shows the difference in the opening size at the tunnel cover) - I'll mod the tunnel cover next. So I'm right up under the fuse box, but it works. Decent clearance all around.

In all, it's not a lot bigger than the R380 hump (I have a bulkehad adapter but no tunnel cover. there's also a d-90 r380 sitting here to compair to) but it's a lot bigger than the little LT77 was for sure. Not as bad as a Humvee hump though.....

My bulkhead is in pretty decent shape. Only rust is where the old RHD clutch master had leaked and rust got to the floor pan a little. Will fix that and then plan on Rhino lining the whole thing front and back. More on that latter.

[D90user]

Looking good Tony! that is a big hurdle. You did that quick.
Are you going to have room to use the mounts that came with the motor?

What does flipping the shifter involve? That is great if it stays in a similar location.

[16kpsi]

a little more progress.

Welded in some frame reinforcement on each side basically from the engine crossmember up to the steering mount holes. 1/4" plate. Then welded on my motor mounts. basically re-plated the left side outrigger with 14 gauge as it had some rust damage. Also re-did the welds on the right side outrigger replacement as they looked a little sketchy. A few pics to show placement. So far, the stock engine cross member fits without mod. We'll see how long that lasts, because....

Front shot shows clearance between axle and pan (high portion. Lower rear sump is behind the axle) at "HD spring" ride height (red and blue strip and white and yellow strip I beleive). A little tight, so will probably go up 2 more inches. This will be about 3 1/2" total lift with the need to extend the bump stops down 3" or so. Frame is level right now with motor in but no body work, bumper, winch, 100lbs of flywheel and clutch, the innards fo the tranny, the t-case, etc.

Exhaust outlet is right near the bulkhead, so will need to shorten about 1/2" to give a little more room. Trouble will be getting the exhaust and the front driveshaft to occupy pretty much the same area down low. Looking forward to that.

Rhinolined the bulkhead after all the tunnel welding, a little rust clean up, and a thorough wire brushing. A good 1/8" plus is most areas. We have a small Rhino gun here, so makes small jobs like this relatively easy. Cost of material was about $180.

Steve brought me my P38 box, so will need to mount that up next. Few questions there, but will post in Tech Discussions.

Next is re-build of the bulkhead including the install of the Proline heated glass kit from RN and the Mud UK side vents (while i'm in there). Getting tired of doing things three times on this truck, so bitting the bullet and doing it all now while I'm in there. Also will be Tub removal and final clean up of the frame before setting the roll cage mounts and putting things back together.....

[130Tdi]

sure looks a lot different from when Ren Ching and I first saw it in the snow in Hertfordshire.

[Ren Ching]

the one we tried to fix the heater on in Julian's driveway?

sure looks a lot different from when Ren Ching and I first saw it in the snow in Hertfordshire.

[16kpsi]

the one we tried to fix the heater on in Julian's driveway?

that would be the one. Blower motor was completely siezed - but it went with the LHD conversion. Thanks for trying.

[D90user]

Dont get me wrong, the truck is going to be a piece of engineering all by it self... But if you can, post a pic of the Anaconda!

[16kpsi]

Dont get me wrong, the truck is going to be a piece of engineering all by it self... But if you can, post a pic of the Anaconda!

Steve wants to see my snake.....

This is the large "Queen" snake from the Academy not-Award winning film Anaconda. I was a design engineer for the effects company that did this machine (along with all the Free Willy whales, Deep Blue Sea sharks, The Perfect Storm swordfish and shark, Flipper dolphin and other stuff all the way back tot he whales in Star Trek and the scale subs used in the chase scene in The Abyss). Edge Innovations was a high end robotic effects company during the 90's. CGI pretty much killed us. But we were the best at what we did at the time. But not cheap.

The Anaconda was a 120 degree of freedom robot. 25ft in one direction (Head) and 15ft in the tail direction. 4000 lbs. 5000psi, 300 hp hydraulics with position and pressure feedback at every function. About 7 miles of control wire laced through the mechanism. Each joint was a custom link with two custom cylinders built from 17-4 stainless and contained two hydraulic spool valves at it's heart. We worked with Dyvalve who built a lot of the servo valves for the Saturn rocket engines. They've since been bought out by Parker. The size of each link incrementally decreased as you move further out the snake. At the time (1995-96) it was possibly the most complex robot built. We had Nasa, Boeing, and others look at it after the film, but there was really no commercial application that anyone could see it being rolled into. Very complex, very tempermental. Cost to build: approx 7 million.

Programming motion of the snake was too complex for the lack of patience seen during filming. We would film during the day. Break down. move, and re-set during the late evening, then program until the next morning. Then whatever programming we did would go out the window on the directors whim. We had a "real time waldo" that could control the snake - every joint - real time. But was considered too dangerous to run with Talent within the "Zone of Death" (the radius the head and tail could sweap in the blink of an eye). As a result, the snake was hardly utilized in the film - most of what is seen is only short or head portions....and the rest done with bad CGI.

I helped a little recently to re-condition the mechanism for static display at the Cal Academy of Science in SF. It's currently on display for a few months during a large snakes exhibit they have going. Steve saw the mechinism while it was here at my current company's shop (we are friendly with the former owners of Edge and let them set up here). I didn't get a chance to get too many pics, but I think these shots show some of the craziness.

[130Tdi]

no wonder you think all this rover stuff is childs play

[16kpsi]

no wonder you think all this rover stuff is childs play

Hardly! this tranny/LT adaption is a b!tch (especially if I'm going to do a new shifter top).
But really it is not a lot different than what I do day-to-day. It just takes a lot of time that I'm NOT getting paid for!






cough! cough! doors, cough!

[Cube II]

COOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats!!!


This is the large "Queen" snake from the Academy not-Award winning film Anaconda. I was a design engineer for the effects company that did this machine

[oilburner]

That snake is pretty much the coolest thing ever. I'm thinking we've all figuerd out you can handle this without the armchair quarterbacking, but I'd love to see how you are doing with the swap. I'm about to get back into mine.

[16kpsi]

'swap'. Yeah. Well at this point I'm down to a gas tank (soon to come out) and a pair of axles...which will be off at some point too.

I was just in the UK, so picked up a 1:1.003 LT230 gear set from Ashcroft - something that had been nagging at me. So no longer worried about rpm's and drivability - at least in that area. While I have the t-case apart, it's been much easier to see how long the adapter from the NV needs to be to clear the 5th gear casing - 3" will do it. Also easier to measure up and model the input face on the LT so I can draw up my adapter plate. So FINALLY I can get on with my adapter, NV main shaft mods, and input gear mods. I'm going to build three sets of adapters. One of the input gears will be my old 1:1.2 gear and the other two will be for 1:1.003 gear. Unfortunately, to preserve the PTO dog teeth on the input gear, the splining will have to done by sinker/ram EDM. Not sure why I want to keep my PTO - maybe just because I have one. It means I'll have to modify the middle cross member - but I need to make it removable anyway as the drive train (clutch, t-case) is too long to service with it in place.

still tidying up the bulkhead with sound dampening (someone mentioned it would be a good idea:grin). I don't want to talk about the heated windscreen.

I'd be making a little more progress if the kitchen-remodel-from-hell wasn't also part of my life. Hammered Copper counter tops? Really Honey? from Montana? How many weeks??????

[oilburner]

What spline are you punching out again? I would be in for a GM 32 spline pattern. I can supply the gear. No need for the adapter plate but the gear would be really useful for me.

I know the feeling. My NV4500 swap started out simple. I now have a CNC plasma cut chassis in pieces in the shop.

[16kpsi]

JL - yes, the 32 tooth, 1.375" OD GM spline. I'll be putting it into the second bearing race but not through to the smaller neck that holds the PTO dog tooth. I have the male on that long tail variant output shaft as a master, so the broacher can make sure it's right. I'd be happy to include yours - I plan on getting to mine in the next month. PM or email me