Is it easy to install Disco1 axles onto a leaf sprung series truck?

[Neil McCauley]

I'd like to do a real easy swap so that way my series III will have disc brakes. Easy conversion or hellish nightmare?

Neil

[Wolf Fabrication]

Just need to weld on spring perches

[Red90]

Well, they are wider so the wheel will stick out further.

They have completely different gearing, so it might be undriveable.

The steering linkage arrangement is completely different.

[cgalpin]

And unless you do some modifications to the brake system I am not sure you'll gain any benefit either :)

[crown14]

You can "install" them into the back of a 109 pretty easy.
1. Open the door
2. Move the junk
3. Shove them in, one at a time
4. Close door

[1962siia88]

Its not a straight forward swap. Thats why you dont see it done very much. There is a thread on expedition portal that you can find with a quick search that shows some rrc axles on a 109.

Daniel

[Albersj51]

An "easy swap" to get disc brakes is to get FJ40 axles from late 70's on (i think 76+ hsd discs). You'll need to cut off the toyota perches and move them to line up with the rover springs and weld them on. It may require a custom rear driveshaft, too. Do a google search and you should find more info.

[cgalpin]

What about a brake booster, proportional valves etc? Or does a SIII already have those?

[o2batsea]

If you have them set up properly, the drums do a pretty good job.
Back in the days when it was my daily driver, the 109 wagon would easily lock up all 4 wheels if I jabbed the pedal. Didn't take much pedal pressure either. That was with single circuit 11 inch "wide" type drums.
I always set the snail cams so that there was a little bit of drag if the wheel was spun by hand. With all the lines bled and this adjustment, I had about 2 inches of pedal travel from zero to full on. Very easily modulated too.
Not hating drum brakes.
I would recommend going to the larger drums all around (or at least up front), along with a vacuum booster and dual circuit. These are all "off the shelf" parts that you can have on your doorstep in a matter of days. That will save you from a lot of re engineering.

If you must have disc brakes, there are a couple places that sell conversion kits for Series axles. Again, the engineering aspect has been worked out so that it's a matter of bolting on the parts.
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/discBrake.htm

[kevkon]

Neill, if your SIII is an 88 and you don't do serious off-roading, there's really no reason to convert to discs other than just wanting to. The drums, as Bill said, are fine when in proper order. Not to mention that with a stock motor and Series trans/gearing, stopping is usually not a problem ( the problem is getting going).

[Neil McCauley]

Well see, the thing is, I want to pull off the wings and start measuring the motor mounts for a small block chevy with TH700R. Just for shits and giggles since the car just sits in my parking lot. I want to play around with this thing since its so cheap to own. Registration plus hagerty is less than $200 a year. And it is true, i don't do any offroading, but if I do the chevy thing it will need to stop faster thats for damn sure. Nice write up by Ann on th conversion.

------ Follow up post added August 25th, 2011 12:38 PM ------

I read in an article on LRO a few years back about a guy who welded on disco hubs onto his series axles plumbed into his stock series booster and master and it worked perfect.

[JBinAlabama]

Thats Cool Neil!

Fire it up dude!

I cant wait to get all my parts galvanized and really get started, this prep stuff is getting tiring!

[junkyddog11]

Just need to weld on spring perches

maybe for the rear...the front will require fabricating shock mountings that will require removing a large part of the coil system brackets and or a complete redesign of the front dampening.

The real rub which is the engineering and fabrication of a high steer steering to clear the leaf springs .

....and upgrading of the braking hydraulics although I'm sure there are those that would disagree.

....and your back to full time hubs as selectable hubs for coilers are limited to the crap AVM units unless you are real crafty.

[mikeslandrover]

the front will require fabricating shock mountings that will require removing a large part of the coil system brackets and or a complete redesign of the front dampening.

Surely all the coil spring, panhard rod and axle locating brackets will need removing:confused All you'll need is some spring seats fabricating and welding on. Sounds easy when you say it quickly:)


The real rub which is the engineering and fabrication of a high steer steering to clear the leaf springs .


That's the tricky part. Although I did read (many years ago) of someone who had managed to fit RRC axles to a series 1 with the standard RRC steering tubes fitted up to the series steering box without modification by ( I believe) very careful positioning of the spring seats. No I've no idea what mag it was or how long ago before you ask:)

[junkyddog11]

Surely all the coil spring, panhard rod and axle locating brackets will need removing:confused All you'll need is some spring seats fabricating and welding on. Sounds easy when you say it quickly:)


That's what I was referring to when I mentioned "that will require removing a large part of the coil system brackets"

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2011 03:21 PM ------

That's the tricky part. Although I did read (many years ago) of someone who had managed to fit RRC axles to a series 1 with the standard RRC steering tubes fitted up to the series steering box without modification by ( I believe) very careful positioning of the spring seats. No I've no idea what mag it was or how long ago before you ask:)

It could be done but you will end up with some severely compromised steering geometry :)

[oilburner]

I've seen one done where they kept all the stock steering bits from the coiler and just built some gargantuum spring pads to raise the tie rod above the spring. They were huge. The springs hung down a lot and I didn't think it was a particularly good system.

I always wanted to find a RHD steering knuckle and just run all the steering bits ahead of the axle by using both swivel drag link arms and a crossover rod (and cutting off the stuff behind the axle). Yes you end up with reverse ackerman, I never calculated how bad it would be. A lot of 4wds have reverse ackerman, including a Series! Some of the rock crawler crowd do this as well (for clearance).

[o2batsea]

Well see, the thing is, I want to pull off the wings and start measuring the motor mounts for a small block chevy with TH700R.
It won't fit. 700R too long. You need Scotty Adapter to mate Chevy to Series trans. Contact Mr Bobeck. He has what you need. That way you can put in the V8 without changing the driveline geometry. Only issues will be rad/breakfast clearance and the exhaust routing.
Others have been down this road long before you. Just do your research and you'll see how to proceed.

Just a word to the wise...having been thru a conversion myself, that you are way better served with the stock engine and gears, drum brakes and dodgy electrical system. If you wheel much you will soon find that the Series can more than keep up with your coiler buds. It's all finesse, not force.

[oilburner]

It won't fit. 700R too long. You need Scotty Adapter to mate Chevy to Series trans. Contact Mr Bobeck. He has what you need. That way you can put in the V8 without changing the driveline geometry. Only issues will be rad/breakfast clearance and the exhaust routing.
Others have been down this road long before you. Just do your research and you'll see how to proceed.

Just a word to the wise...having been thru a conversion myself, that you are way better served with the stock engine and gears, drum brakes and dodgy electrical system. If you wheel much you will soon find that the Series can more than keep up with your coiler buds. It's all finesse, not force.

Bad advice as usual!

I think that in order to be "through" a conversion, you actually have to finish it.

[o2batsea]

Bad advice as usual!

I think that in order to be "through" a conversion, you actually have to finish it.

Did, mate. Redoing it with diesel power now.

How is telling the man that the 700 is too long bad advice? Do you know something about it I don't? That trans is 24 inches long frome the back of the engine before you even get a transfer case on it. In an 88 the rear drive shaft will be pointing down too much.
If he's putting it in a 109, then no problem.

Just looked up the Advance Adapters Series to GM ten spline and it would appear that you would need the "Dana 300 to TH700" as well as the "Dana 300 to LR series" kit. This will add another 6-odd inches (and 1000 clams) to the transmission before the transfer case goes on, assuming one wants to retain the Series TC.

[junkyddog11]

I always wanted to find a RHD steering knuckle and just run all the steering bits ahead of the axle by using both swivel drag link arms and a crossover rod (and cutting off the stuff behind the axle). Yes you end up with reverse ackerman, I never calculated how bad it would be. A lot of 4wds have reverse ackerman, including a Series! Some of the rock crawler crowd do this as well (for clearance).

That would be the reason I've saved all the bits from RHD-LHD conversions eh? actually sold off all but one knuckle thinking I might try this one day.


That and sticking a 7.3l powerstroke in my SI.....lol

[oilburner]

Did, mate. Redoing it with diesel power now.

How is telling the man that the 700 is too long bad advice? Do you know something about it I don't? That trans is 24 inches long frome the back of the engine before you even get a transfer case on it. In an 88 the rear drive shaft will be pointing down too much.
If he's putting it in a 109, then no problem.

Just looked up the Advance Adapters Series to GM ten spline and it would appear that you would need the "Dana 300 to TH700" as well as the "Dana 300 to LR series" kit. This will add another 6-odd inches (and 1000 clams) to the transmission before the transfer case goes on, assuming one wants to retain the Series TC.

You give people bad advice all the time. A 700R4 is not too long. Length is not the issue. You could put a 700R4 in a SWB with a small block chevy, with no real length issues. You just don't know how. You recommended putting a small block chevy ahead of a series truck trans with a Scotty's adaptor instead. For driveline angles. That's really bad advice. Any decent Chevy V8 will shred that trans within a few thousand miles.

Then, more bad advice, saying it would fit no problem in a 109. That's dead wrong. Why? The pan is too wide. The front driveshaft interferes with it if you use a Series case. The issue is not the length, but the width. The Series T case does not have enough offset to clear the pan. So, in three posts, you've managed to be dead wrong, on all three counts. One, that it's too long. Two, that he should use a series trans. Three, that it would work in a 109, without any issues.

Look, I am not looking for a war here, I generally try and be a nice guy. But you are literally batting a thousand for being wrong. Virtually in every conversion related post you have put on here, people are getting misinformed.

[o2batsea]

Ok I'll try not to offer any more. I'll let you field all the questions.

[kevkon]

Maybe more to the point is why does it make sense to replace a 1960's engine with another 1960's engine when there are sooooo many better engines available which are far more suitable for a Land Rover? Been there done that with small block chevys. Great engines when set up correctly and sitting in a Camaro. But I just can't see the sense of one in a Series truck. In fact, it's not really a Series truck when you get done with all of the mods.
There's better ways to go ,imho.

[Neil McCauley]

I just like the fact that I could go to any autozone and get Taiwanese parts for it..

[JSBriggs]

If you are looking to upgrade, i would say a power steering conversion would be more benificial that disc brakes.

just my 2¢

-Jeff

[cgalpin]

There's better ways to go ,imho.
Can you enumerate some of the options if you are not interested in more horsepower necessarily? Although I'm not sure why else people do engine swaps. A diesel I get. Just curious.

[kevkon]

There is just a large selection of 4 and 6 cyl gas and diesel engines that would fit better, run better, get better fuel economy, more performance, and which are common. I realize it's a personal choice, I just don't see a V8 as the best option especially on a Series truck. If I change out the 2.25 on mine, I may go with a Ford Durotec 4 cyl. or if I go diesel an Isuzu 4cyl.
Then again, I'm not hauling a lot nor doing serious highway travelling. If you are and need more hp, I still think there are better options than a V8.


Neill, you don't have to go for a Chevy small block to buy Taiwanese parts, you can do that with any Land Rover engine:)

[Neil McCauley]

Well you can even buy a SBC at autozone. I like the availability of parts and common knowledge from just about anyone on how to work on one. Plus they dress up quite nicely. Mated to a 700R, thats some smooth motoring ahead. This is what I believe what I want from a series truck. As far as disco 1 axles, I don't care if the wheels stick out far, I just want disc brakes.

[D90user]

Check out late model fj40 axles. The steering linkage fits with SUA, are just a smidge wider than stock series, are bullet proof compared to coil rover stuff, and have front disks. If you want rear disks there are kits for ~350$.

I bought a set from a member here and they are under the series 1. You can find them everywhere and all that needs to be done is the perches need moving, drive shaft flange change, and brake line adapters, and the rear breather needs moving. It really is a good solution.

What about a 200tdi Neil?

[slorocco]

You ought to give Matthew Jackson a call over at Advanced adapters. He's played around with small block chevys and series rovers for a few years.