Timm Cooper disc brake conversion available again!

[1962siia88]

Hey folks:

No affiliation other than I'm friends with these people and want to see them succeed!

http://roamoffroad.com/

This should be good news for many people.

Daniel

[airbornrover]

Went through the site, almost too good to be true. They are also making a kit for front and rear brakes conversion package. Santa might just have come early for me.

[cgalpin]

Definitely looks enticing, but what's the true cost? They give pricing for everything except the

109 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder (Late) / NRC6096 ~ $30
SIII Pedal and bracket Assembly / 569054 ??
SIII Servo / STC1816 ~ $140

So it's at least $2k for the front and $2700 for all 4, plus whatever the pedal assembly will cost... I"m the kind of guy that would do all 4 and the updated pedal assembly/servo/dual circuit, or just not bother, but that's pricey.

[o2batsea]

Drums work just fine. I could lock up all four in the 109 without too much effort and modulation was pretty good, even when they were filled with mud.

[TeriAnn]

Drums work just fine. I could lock up all four in the 109 without too much effort.

Right they work well in the forward direction, but really poorly if you try to keep a 109 from rolling back when stopped on a steep uphill slope. The 109 front brakes have 2 leading shoes per side. This means lots of stopping power in the forward direction but you are relying mostly on the single trailing shoe on each rear brake to stop you in the rearward direction. Putting discs on the front of a 109 allows them to stop well in both directions.

I personally consider adding discs on the front of a 109 to be a safety upgrade. Last thing I want to do is try to hold a stock brake 109 in a steep nose up position in a failed assent while waiting for that idiot who was following close to get out of the way so you can do a controlled descent.

While nice to have, an 88 does well with drums & the rear of a 109 does well with shoes. D110's had shoes on the back through 1993. But if you drive the steep stuff in a 109, front disc brakes are a safety upgrade. But then again I think we have had this conversation before.

[o2batsea]

Hm. I would diddle the trans brake and sometimes take my foot off the brakes completely on an uphill stuck. I was never in fear of losing braking or rolling backward, but that's just my own experience.

[oilburner]

Awesome that this is back on the market. If I didn't run a 101 front end I would use these for sure, strong, simple, elegant, original looking. Sweet!

[1962siia88]

I'm really excited for these guys. I had a hard time keeping my mouth shut while the details and site got worked out. The wheels are really great too I think. Obviously none of this stuff is necessary but if you're adding horsepower and speed it's nice to have options that are well thought out and functional. I'm sure they will be adding to their product line as they go forward.

Daniel

[o2batsea]

Right they work well in the forward direction, but really poorly if you try to keep a 109 from rolling back when stopped on a steep uphill slope. The 109 front brakes have 2 leading shoes per side. This means lots of stopping power in the forward direction but you are relying mostly on the single trailing shoe on each rear brake to stop you in the rearward direction.
Sorry TAW, but that's patent hogwash.

[evilfij]

Sorry TAW, but that's patent hogwash.

I personally can confirm that it is not.

[o2batsea]

Meh Whatever, I never had a problem. That said, Im ripping out the Series chassis and putting the 2A on a RRC.

[Ren Ching]

Definitely not hogwash. I've spent more than enough time with the front end pointed toward the treetops and both feet on the brake pedal. And that is just on Virginia trails, I can only imagine trying the same trick on some of the steeper inclines you guys have out west. I found that it helped if the rears were freshly adjusted. But, that is kind of hard to keep up with in a series.

I personally can confirm that it is not.

[cgalpin]

Drums work just fine.
You crack me up Bill. A 2.25 works just fine too...

[TeriAnn]

Sorry TAW, but that's patent hogwash.

Well I hope it is good hog wash & yields a good clean hog. I've personally been stopped on steep upward slopes with both feet braced on the brake pedal and the truck was still on the edge of rolling back. And I keep my brakes in good condition. No problem keeping the truck stopped with one fit nose down. 109 front brakes with their two leading shoes per side just don't work well in the rearwards direction.

I invite you to make a trip out to the left coast and spend sometime driving the streets of San Francisco in your 109. Then tell me I'm just imagining that my truck didn't want to stay stationary in a steep nose up attitude.

But I've never been able to convince you that having all leading shoes on the front makes the brakes work better in the forward direction and worse in the rearwards direction.

[phoenix37]

What do you know the homepage has my truck on it! Very cool

[shoefnik]

What do you know the homepage has my truck on it! Very cool

Hi John,

I always wondered what happened to the "Beast" rig! How's it treating you? It was selected for the homepage because it is widely believed to be one of the most aggressive bomb-proof Series rigs ever to hit the trail. That thing just ooozed cool. That vehicles pops-up in conversation whenever we discuss how much carnage a potetial new product needs to be able to withstand. Did you ever see the videos of it on the Rubicon that are up on Youtube?

Thanks,

Brian
ROAM OFFROAD

[phoenix37]

Hey Brian. Very cool company youve got there! Thanks for the kind words about the truck not that I can take any credit for it except I drooled over it for quite a long time. Yes it is a BEAST and I couldnt be happier with it. I havent seen the youtube videos but I will look for them or maybe you can post a link.

[JSBriggs]

Did you ever see the videos of it on the Rubicon that are up on Youtube?

Thanks,

Brian
ROAM OFFROAD


These? Good times.

http://www.youtube.com/user/pasodriveline#p/u/9/vqLru-Nt4aA

-Jeff

[phoenix37]

Wow these are great!! Thanks for sharing.

[oilburner]

Thanks for posting that link Jeff, very cool stuff.

[nathanwind]

Definitely looks enticing, but what's the true cost? They give pricing for everything except the

109 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder (Late) / NRC6096 ~ $30
SIII Pedal and bracket Assembly / 569054 ??
SIII Servo / STC1816 ~ $140

So it's at least $2k for the front and $2700 for all 4, plus whatever the pedal assembly will cost... I"m the kind of guy that would do all 4 and the updated pedal assembly/servo/dual circuit, or just not bother, but that's pricey.

Charles:

Do I hear a group buy discount in our near future?

[cgalpin]

Not anytime soon I think. Besides having too many irons in the fire, I still can't get over the price tag.

[aka rover]

Im in for a group buy... my brakes on the axles im using are junk i need everything drums etc. and the salisbury parts are not cheap so there on my list. Been on the phone with Timm about my current build and have dicided to go with them for my 109 build.



So lets get the ball rollin!!!

Cheers Ed

[aka rover]

Ok I know they are spendy but mine are on there way! Ill let you guys know how it all works out.

Cheers Ed

Brian has been great to work with and very helpfull with shipping etc.


Thanks Brian

[Neil McCauley]

I'm pretty excited about this, group buy for both axles and I'm in!! So we can't use our stock series III 88 MC?

[aka rover]

My understanding is you can but the optimum setup would be the larger 109 unit. since my truck was a single circuit I went ahead and upgraded to the SIII pedal assem. and late 109 master. They did a production run of 30 units and half of them are sold allready. I didnt want to wait for a group buy as my rig is at the axle rebuild stages so I needed them sooner than later. Im looking forward to the kit getting here and holding all the shinnys in my hand:).

Ed

[Neil McCauley]

So if I already have a Series III, all I gotta do it buy the 109 MC then? The hardlines stay the same?

[airbornrover]

There is a whole write up on the website with specific answers to the questions you are asking Neil.

[Neil McCauley]

Hmm, my MC has 2 outlets on it, wonder if I have the right one.

[TeriAnn]

So if I already have a Series III, all I gotta do it buy the 109 MC then? The hardlines stay the same?

109 and 88 brake lines are different in that they go to opposite ends of the master cylinder. The connector size is different between front & rear brake lines.

[Neil McCauley]

Hi Teri, thanks for that info. I feel like I'm talking to a celebrity :) Steve and Marty used to bring you up often when I'd go to BP to pick up my parts. Ok so it appears new lines will have to be purchased.

[aka rover]

Got ROAM disc brake conversion and out of the box it is sweet. Brian has been great to work with and he has been in contact with me through the whole deal and worked with me on shipping and getting me all other items to complete the kit.

Ed

[1962siia88]

Glad to hear! Congrats. Post up some pics if you can! Thanks.

Daniel

[aka rover]

heres a few picks of what showed up.

All the hardware is well packaged and labeled came with new lug nuts and the machine work looks great and its made state side.


Ill post up more when I start the axle buildups

Cheers Ed

[shoefnik]

Thanks for the kind words Ed! We're very proud of this product and how it's produced. Let me know if you need any guidance with your installation.

We're gearing up another production run for later this month which will also include conversions for Series Land Rovers running the late 1980 and forward style wheel bearings. Here's a picture of our conversion that we took earlier this week. Maybe I'm biased but I think it qualifies as "Rover Porn". :grin

ROAM OFFROAD will be introducing some new products for Series Land Rovers in 2012 and hope you will find them as exciting we do!

Cheers!
Brian
-------------------------
ROAM OFFROAD

[D90user]

Hi Brian,
What does ROAM have in the oven?

[Cube II]

Nice.
I just visited the ROAM OR website,
and checked the testimonials page.
Now all I want to do is lavish my last money in a plane ticket to Seattle
and go stealing Eric Neal's truck
:grin

[aka rover]

Thanks Brian

I will let you know how it goes.

Cheers Ed

[NomaD110]

I've seen Timm's work first hand. The guy is magic.

[TeriAnn]

I've seen Timm's work first hand. The guy is magic.

Me too. I'm reminded of his work every time I press on the accelerator pedal, shift a gear or turn the steering wheel. I have never met a better Series Land Rover designer and fabricator. He is pure genius.

[JBinAlabama]

Are you making progress on this install? When I get back home I'm going to add up the cost of the parts i need to replace to compare to this kit.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[aka rover]

Are you making progress on this install? When I get back home I'm going to add up the cost of the parts i need to replace to compare to this kit.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


No I havent gotten to that point yet, Im getting close just got my frame extended for rear springs on front and my powersteering mounted, so im close ill post up when I get there.

[aka rover]

I installed my DB kit and it was as expected, it was very straight forward and the parts are all top quality!

The swivel housings are massive in comparison to the OG ones, I will say this ROAM offroad and Timm Cooper have been great to deal with.

Here is a few pics of my conversion they are still not under the truck but are all togather and just needing me to install my hard lines.

I installed a 15" wheel just to see how it fit and there is plenty of room.

[JBinAlabama]

That looks GREAT!
Nice job!

Ive been adding up the drum brake parts I need and its getting pretty far up in dollars.
The only problem is if I install the 2.25 diesel I bought I will have to add an electric vacuum pump.

I'm in the consideration stage now:)

[aka rover]

Thanks its slowly getting there. what about a belt driven pump?

I needed everything drums etc for mine and when all said and done it was a double the price of the drum brakes for the disc upgrade. but that includes new hubs and swivel housings that are way beefy!

I cant wait to try them out.

[1962siia88]

Youre going to be very happy with these brakes. I've driven several trucks with them and they are great. Can't wait to see what else Brian and Timm have planned!

Daniel

[JSBriggs]

That looks GREAT!
Nice job!

Ive been adding up the drum brake parts I need and its getting pretty far up in dollars.
The only problem is if I install the 2.25 diesel I bought I will have to add an electric vacuum pump.

I'm in the consideration stage now:)

Or convert to power steering and use hydroboost! :grin Peter Knowles is running it on his 4.3 109. You could glance at his youtube video. http://www.youtube.com/user/RiverportRovers

-Jeff

[shoefnik]

Can't wait to see what else Brian and Timm have planned!

Daniel

Series Axles. :sunny

http://www.roamoffroad.com/axles.php

Enjoy!

Brian

[phoenix37]

Sweet!!! Now when is my HO72 ARB going to be ready?

[shoefnik]

Sweet!!! Now when is my HO72 ARB going to be ready?

I'm super excited about that too! Keep an eye on our webpage as we'll soon be adding a EATON section which will host our new HO72 related products and information.

Brian

[aka rover]

I'm super excited about that too! Keep an eye on our webpage as we'll soon be adding a EATON section which will host our new HO72 related products and information.

Brian


Keep the cool stuff coming Brian!

Nice talking with you and will be ordering your axles and your drive flanges when they are ready!!

[1962siia88]

Awesome stuff Brian! So what axles will Gonzo be rolling on? Pics?

Daniel

[shoefnik]

Awesome stuff Brian! So what axles will Gonzo be rolling on? Pics?

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Gonzo has a Salisbury up front running 35 spline ROAM shafts and an EATON H072 in the rear with massive 30 spline custom ROAM shafts. The H072 ARB conversion that John (Phoenix37) referred to above was featured on a Pirate4x4 post and is actually Gonzo's 3rd member. I don't have any good pictures on-hand except for this one showing the H072 pinion next to a standard Series pinion. Can you guess which is which? ;o) I'll post some more pictures next week.

Pirate H072 Post:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14043003#post14043003

Thanks!

Brian

[1962siia88]

I saw the stuff on pirate! Nice to see Timm posting stuff too. I figured it was for Gonzo but just wanted to confirm. Man I can't wait to get mine done and get back on the trail again! I'll have to pick up a set of your 24 spline rear shafts for my "wimpy" set up. Can you deliver to Mendo!?

Daniel

[oilburner]

Sweet!!! Now when is my HO72 ARB going to be ready?

Damn that is absolutely freaking amazing. The ARB Eaton thing is just totally unbelievable. I remember asking ARB about fitment when the RD114 came out and taking a tape measure to one to see if it would fit. I gave up and decided to use a Detroit instead. Wow.

Brian, do you guys have a good disc setup for the 101FC front? I developed something using late model Tundra/Landcruiser 200 calipers and Wilwood rotors. It's not done yet but I am getting close. These are huge 4 piston calipers and big rotors. If you are building a 101FC front I would gladly share notes. What is the plan for this Gonzo project?

Cheers

JL (please say hello to Timm for me)

[shoefnik]

I stand corrected! The picture above is a Salisbury pinion and a regular Series pinion - not a H072 pinion. Timm corrected me by saying: "Please don't insult the HO72!!!! Its pinion is WAY bigger than the Salisbury/Dana 60 pinion in the picture!" I guess I need to go take another picture showing all three. ;o)

JL – we don’t have any plans to make a 101FC disc conversion. Our conversion fits SIIa and SIIb forward controls and there just isn't enough demand for us to produce one specifically for the 101. That said, Timm has created a 101FC disc conversion in the past and I'm sure he'd be happy to chat with you about it if you are looking to bounce any ideas around.

Thanks!
Brian

[JSBriggs]

Brian, do you guys have a good disc setup for the 101FC front? I developed something using late model Tundra/Landcruiser 200 calipers and Wilwood rotors. It's not done yet but I am getting close. These are huge 4 piston calipers and big rotors. If you are building a 101FC front I would gladly share notes. What is the plan

JL, Timm disced the the 101 front on his (now John's) S1 pickup. As I recall, there was some machining and defiantly some custom work, but I'm sure it's something you could replicate.

-Jeff

[shoefnik]

JL, Timm disced the the 101 front on his (now John's) S1 pickup. As I recall, there was some machining and defiantly some custom work, but I'm sure it's something you could replicate.

-Jeff

Yup, I think it was all Wilwood stuff with custom brackets. Never sell that rig Jeff. :nono

Brian

[JSBriggs]

Yup, I think it was all Wilwood stuff with custom brackets. Never sell that rig Jeff. :nono

Brian


Oh, I wish it were mine....John ( phoenix37) owns it. As a general rule, I don't sell Rovers, just buy them :)

-Jeff

[oilburner]

Thanks guys. I thought "Gonzo" was a new buildup. I guess you guys were referring to the 109 pickup that John now owns. I have spoken to Timm a couple of times on the disc setup he built for the 109 and his recommendations and ideas helped me with my current design.

Keep up the good work on the Eaton stuff. Another area where there could be some improvement is a set of custom 5 on 6.5 hubs that would work on the Eaton snout and use an off the shelf disc. Although the axle is well suited to Land-Rover swaps for many reasons, the wheel ends are a bit of an issue for the home garage person that cannot graft on different spindles or stub axles. I reworked a set of 50s forged eaton hubs so that they are 5 on 6.5 and work with stock 14 bolt axles. I am also looking forward to your pinion bearing conversion since this is a costly piece to replace.

Cheers

JL

[shoefnik]

Thanks guys. I thought "Gonzo" was a new buildup.

Gonzo is my SIII 88" that Timm is working on. I drove gonzo for years in stock form and decided to hand it over to Timm when I found out that this would be one of his last builds. It's running a Vortec 6.0L V8, Timm's custom transfer case, 4L65E transmission (auto), SOA, PS, 4-wheel ROAM disc brakes, Salisbury front with 35 spline ROAM shafts and a HO72 Eaton rear running massive custom 30 spline shafts. The front frame horns have been extended and it has rear 88" springs up front and rear 109" springs in the rear for better articulation which has also added the extra bonus of increasing the wheelbase to around 96". ARB front and rear and is presently loaded with 35" tires on ROAM wheels. A lot of focus has gone into keeping it looking clean and somewhat stock. Hopefully it'll be road/trail worthy in the next few weeks. I'll be sure to post some pictures when it's done.

Brian

[oilburner]

What are you doing for rear hubs Brian? I guess you guys are using your custom Series hubs. Are you using the stock Eaton spindles or have you grafted on stub axles? Anyways it sounds cool. Post some photos when you can.

Cheers

JL

[shoefnik]

The hubs are from the ROAM disc conversion and we're using custom 4340 spindles that we're prototyping for our 35 spline upgrade that will fit an Eaton or a Salisbury. Yes, there's enough clearance for the 1.530 diameter shaft!

Brian

[phoenix37]

JL, Timm disced the the 101 front on his (now John's) S1 pickup. As I recall, there was some machining and defiantly some custom work, but I'm sure it's something you could replicate.

-Jeff


Brian Id like to get a set of your wheels but Timm mentioned they wouldnt clear the calipers on the 101. Can something be done about this?

[Macker]

Hey Brian,

Is your series 3 red by chance?

Mack

[oilburner]

John,

Keep in mind that the 101 hubs on your machine are much larger diameter than series or coiler parts and a stock wheel will not physically fit over the center of the hub. Modifying a wheel to fit would greatly reduce its strength unless it was done very carefully. I think Wolfs or other rims could be made to fit as the center is much thicker - I am planning on making a set of custom Wolfs for my project.

[phoenix37]

Thats a good point...there is nothing wrong with the rims I have now except i really like the stock look. Check out the ones on Timms truck..

http://roamoffroad.com/wheels.php

[oilburner]

Me too. It is one of the downsides of using a 101 front axle. Everything is super beefy, but, the again, everything is super BIG :).

[JSBriggs]

Thats a good point...there is nothing wrong with the rims I have now except i really like the stock look. Check out the ones on Timms truck..

http://roamoffroad.com/wheels.php

Vintage Jackmans are beefy if you like the wagon wheel look, but I agree, I like the look of the stock solid centers.

-Jeff

[oilburner]

I actually have .DXF I made of the Jackman center for a 101 hub and a 17 inch wheel, rover pattern. I was going to get the centers CNC water jet cut and weld them into a set of 17 inch shells, for a set of period looking wheels. I find that 37s on 17 inch rims look totally stock from a distance.

[shoefnik]

Hey Brian,

Is your series 3 red by chance?

Mack

Yes sir it is!

[Macker]

Yes sir it is!


I believe I saw it in Timm's garage when I visited his place a few months ago. That is a unique and beautiful looking truck you are building.

[shoefnik]

Brian Id like to get a set of your wheels but Timm mentioned they wouldnt clear the calipers on the 101. Can something be done about this?

Well... we're not 100% sure to be honest. You have possible caliper clearance issues and the fact that your drive flange hubs are bigger than the bore on a standard wheel. Now I figure we can bore the center hole on the wheel to fit your hub but we're just not sure about the caliper clearance. The BEST thing to do would be to source an old Rover wheel, roughly die grind or torch out the center to clear your hub and then slide it on to evaluate the caliper clearance issue. There may be no issues or it may be so subtle that we just need to trim a smidge off the wheel. If it's major then you'd need to consider adding a spacer. The rear axle is a snap - just add the ROAM rear-only disc conversion and the wheels will fit perfectly.

Let me know if you decide to push forward with the experiment and we'll assist from our side.

Thanks,
Brian

[TeriAnn]

Gonzo is my SIII 88" that Timm is working on. I drove gonzo for years in stock form and decided to hand it over to Timm when I found out that this would be one of his last builds. It's running a Vortec 6.0L V8, Timm's custom transfer case, 4L65E transmission (auto), SOA, PS, 4-wheel ROAM disc brakes, Salisbury front with 35 spline ROAM shafts and a HO72 Eaton rear running massive custom 30 spline shafts. The front frame horns have been extended and it has rear 88" springs up front and rear 109" springs in the rear for better articulation which has also added the extra bonus of increasing the wheelbase to around 96". ARB front and rear and is presently loaded with 35" tires on ROAM wheels. A lot of focus has gone into keeping it looking clean and somewhat stock. Hopefully it'll be road/trail worthy in the next few weeks. I'll be sure to post some pictures when it's done.
Brian

Brian, my memory of the Gonzo going GONZO spec. vers. 1.0 is that Gonzo was going to get Defender style coil springs up front and retain leafs in back. What caused that part of the design specification to change to the older long leaf spring up front standard that people have been doing for a decade plus????

Glad to hear it is almost done though. I know you have been waiting forever to get the truck back.

Now that the snow is 95% off the ground and the north facing cement driveway surface is getting above freezing during the day I have been getting to those odds & end maintenance things I've been putting off during the winter. Next project is to replumb the fuel line to remove the low pressure canister type fuel filter that gets hot enough to cause vapour lock after 3 or 4 hours of driving in 90 plus degree ambient temperatures.

Once I have the new pump & fuel filter placement figured out and plumbed I'll be free to head out on hotter days.

Looking forward to the day I can crawl under your truck & see the visible changes to the new GONZO.

[shoefnik]

Brian, my memory of the Gonzo going GONZO spec. vers. 1.0 is that Gonzo was going to get Defender style coil springs up front and retain leafs in back. What caused that part of the design specification to change to the older long leaf spring up front standard that people have been doing for a decade plus????.

Nope, I was always wanting to retain the leafs in Gonzo. It was the Catahula rig that got the linked front setup. In my eyes leafs are a large part of the Series Land Rover soul and a genuine part of the experience when driving them. Of course, that's just my personal preference today and maybe I'll change my mind and install coils if I reach the limits of what the leafs can deliver one day – but I doubt it. It’s funny how that moral line you draw for modifying your Rover changes as your needs change.

Brian

[AdvenJack]

If anyone has a good contact number for Timm Cooper I could use it. I own one of his Great Trucks and want to ask a question about it. The phone number I have is out of date. Thanks guys! I am at: shootistjack@gmail.com

[phoenix37]

Well look who has surfaced! Welcome back.. Hows the rig? Nice to have another owner of a Cooper rig back on the board. Send me a pm and Ill give you his email address.

[jorge]

Glad to see you back Jack , you drive a very well built ( Timm Cooper ) vehicle .

[aka rover]

I have his contact info. Ill send it over.