Hub nut!

[TwisteD90]

I was doing the regular checklist on my D90 before I hit a trail tomorrow and I found that my front hub nuts are lose again. I just tighten those things last week. What could be the problem and how can I get those things to stay tight at least for one month.

[rover4x4]

loc tite?

[TDI Guy]

YEs, Blue loc-tite on them. Clean the threads from oil first...

[JimC]

Isnt there supposed to be a tab washer keeping them in place? You could always stake them...

[Davis]

Yousef, are you refering to the hub nut or the hub bolts? If it is the bolts, those should all have blue locktite on them. If it is the hub nut, well then MAN, you do some serious checking before running a trail! If it is the hub nut, tighten it down properly, add the lock washer, and tighten up the second hub nut and bend back the lock washer--I don't see a way for that one to come loose.

[Buckon37s]

What they said, BUT, if it is the hub nut, do NOT tighten the inside nut any further than by what your hand and the socket can do. Then use the washer and tighten the second nut down tight. If you tighen the first nut down too tight, it will roast your wheel bearings.

[TwisteD90]

Oh crap, I tighten the $hit out of the first nut and drove it 200 miles today. Well, I'll redo the nuts and will use loc-tite but what should I torque the first and second nuts to?

Let's hope I didn't roast my bearings.

[Davis]

Yousef--come up here in the morning, we will do your hubs, and then we can run carnage. How tight do you want your first hub nut? Basically, turn the socket with greasy hands until it slips--a lot of people say to be VERY careful, but it is not THAT important as they are taper bearings and they are not that suseptable to frying from over tightening when done like this. After you pack the bearings, tighten the hell out of the first nut, then rotate the hub several times to seat the bearing. Back off the nut, then retighten via the above mentioned greasy hands. Add the washer, tighten the second nut quite tight, then check that the hub spins well (not free, but not binding--it will spin but slow rather quickly), If it seems right, then bend the washer in over the first nut and out over the second nut. Game over.

Seriously--if you want to run carnage, come on over. I want to do it about 9am on sunday. my phone is three oh three, eight 0 9 nine four 0 8.

[TwisteD90]

Hey do you think I can make it to Boulder in 4 mins as I just read this :( I still have to replace my rear A arm ball joint, grease my hiems before I take it back on the street.

[Red90]

I'm so confused. The hub nuts have a lock washer that you bend over them. How can they come loose????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????? Is spending $2 on a new washer a little much?

Do you guys ever use a torque wrench??

OK, back to the beer.

Follow-up Post:

Reading again, there is no way you are talking about the hub nuts, is there???? You don't actually remove the drive flange on your weekly checks, do you???

[TwisteD90]

Don't be confused; it's a Land Rover!

Yes, I have a lock washer, and no $2 is not much. In fact I bought a half a dozen last week just incase.

As for torque wrench yes I have two in fact and use them regularly. The only reason I tighten the hub nuts so hard is b/c I’m sick and tired of those things coming loose.

I check my D90 before any trip I make, and I only remove the drive flanges when I notice a play in the wheel when it's up in the air.

And who pissed in your coffee this morning that you are so upset or confused? I asked a simple question and I'm looking for an answer not your stupid smart ass answers :rolleyes


I'm so confused. The hub nuts have a lock washer that you bend over them. How can they come loose????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????? Is spending $2 on a new washer a little much?

Do you guys ever use a torque wrench??

OK, back to the beer.

Follow-up Post:

Reading again, there is no way you are talking about the hub nuts, is there???? You don't actually remove the drive flange on your weekly checks, do you???

[BarryO]

Add me to the confused.

Are these HUB nuts, or LUG nuts?

I can't see how the inner HUB nut can get (too) loose. The lockwasher's supposed to be bent over, and this keeps it in place. There's no way the inner nut can move if the lockwasher is installed correctly. 'good thing, too, as it is tightened with pretty low torque if done correctly.

The outer nut is big enough, and bears on the broad other side of the lockwasher, that it shouldn't loosen when torqued down to according to spec.

If these are lug nuts, well, that's a different story.

[Mike Hippert]

Yes he's talking about Hub nuts, and yes they can loosen. Even with the washer bent over if both nuts spin at the same time they will loosen. Most likely they will loosen if the outer nut is not tight very tight. Checking the Hub nuts every now and then is not a bad idea, you can check to see if the bearings are still OK (especially if you ride in mud and water), or if there is any play in the bearings. You may also check them a little more regularly if you run larger more offset tires as Yousef does, as this increases ware on the bearings more then smaller tires do. And just for reference the inner nut is called the "Hub adjusting nut" and the outer nut is called the "Lock nut".

Per the manual you:

1 Put on the Hub adjusting nut and tighten to 37 ft lbs and rotate the tire checking for play in the bearings
2 back off Hub adjusting nut 90* and then re tighten to 7 ft lbs
3 put the lock washer on
4 put the lock nut on and tighten to 37 ft lbs
5 then bend the lock washer over both the Hub adjusting nut and lock nut.

[TwisteD90]

I bet you the beadlocks are causing the nuts to get loose.

[Red90]

What???

Both nuts can not spin. The lock washer is tabbed to the spindle and can not turn. I've never seen one loosen and really can not see how it is possible as long as the washer is bent tight to both nuts.

[Mike Hippert]

Well they should not but in reality it happens case in point: When I was at Yousef's we had everything on nice and tight, and now it is loose, problem well his wheels have a lot of vibes, and he has big heavy tires. When we torked it all down there was no play in the bearings. I don't know what to say John it just happens, there are not to many guys out there running 37" bead locked 10" wide wheels that don't balance out well.

[TwisteD90]

The washer is bent tight on both nuts and they still came loose, why??? I wish I know. However, I'm very much sure that my wobbly wheels/tires is causing the nuts to go loose. I hope my MJ Lee wheels shows up soon.

Follow-up Post:

there are not to many guys out there running 37" or bigger bead locked 10" wide wheels that drive their rigs to the trail.

Fixed it for ya :grin

[Mike Hippert]

there are not to many guys out there running 37" bead locked 10" wide wheels that drive me to the trail asking "do you think we'll make it?"
Fixed it better:grin

[redrover]

Yousef , the tab over washer cannot spin due to the milled flat portion on the spindle. The washer also has a flat spot. It sounds like your bearings just have a little extra play in them, and combined with those massive meats you run, they will leverage that hub around on the spindle. Im sure you have a book on torque settings , But the greasy hands sounds good as there is very little torque. Here is the LR settings. Also be sure to spin the hub as you torque the first bolt.

Inner nut 37ft/lb
then back nut off 1/4 turn and retorque to 7 ft/lb
tab washer
second nut 37ft/lb
Bend small area over one flat side of inner nut
Bend small area of washer over flat on outer nut

Also some people forget to recess double lip seal 3 o r4 mm below lip of hub----THIS can cause a false reading on torque wrench and lead to loose hub.

Rock on Jp
PS Moab was great, but still cant find that damm rusty nail . Also a fj 40 in my group pulled a ball joint out of his tie rod on Moab rim trail --Scarrrrrrry

Follow-up Post:

Just occured to me that his spindle may be different as he has rovertracks aeu2522 super top secret up grade. I know earlier model spindles that were not machined like the d1 and 90s. If this is the case , the nuts can back off together as mike stated. JP

[Red90]

Earlier ones had a keyway cut in the spindle and a tab on the washers.

[TwisteD90]

Mike, that was classic :grin

JP, I'm running the prototype 110 CV's with different heat treat than the others (Third season on those bad boys with all the abuse they can take) and I think I'm using the same spindles but I could be wrong.

[redrover]

Yah john after I posted i remembered the key groove. JP

[BarryO]

Well unless the washer tab gets sheared off, the nuts still can't rotate.

I thought about the seals not being properly recessed, too, but it sounds like they've been tightened enough by now.

If the nuts ain't turning, the only way things can get loose is by the bearings changing their geometry. If this is the case, they're being overstressed; the hub design really isn't up to the loads being put on it. Wheel offsets especially put tremendous stress on hubs and bearings.