Advice Sought...

[cbass]

***UPDATE*****

***SEE THE POST #26 FOR THE UPDATE****


Hey Guys,
This morning on his way to work, my brother slid off the road in our 94 d-90. It's a long story, but to make it short, he slammed head on into a tree. He was probably doing about 40 when he hit the tree so the front is pretty banged up. The tree hit just to the driver's left of the winch (almost right on the driver's side frame rail). From what I could tell, the tree just barely didn't smash into the engine, so that parts OK. I haven't looked at it really good yet cause it was 5:45am when it happened, so it was still dark.

Assuming that the truck is totaled (worst case), do any of you have advice or tips on how to make the best out of a bad situation? I want to know if any of you have experienced a similar situation and how the outcome went.

Part it out? Let insurance take it and get money from them? Try to fix it? etc.

Thanks in advance!

I'll get pics of the car as soon as I get to the tow yard.

PS, my brother walked away with only a slight diagonal area of soreness on his chest from the seatbelt. In that regard, we are very happy and he is very lucky.

[rover4x4]

save the vin etc and import something from the UK, sorry to hear about your loss that stinks.

[paulb]

Are you a Defender junky (no polite way to ask)? Do you want to keep it and fix it or replace it?
If it is totalled, the insurance company can estimate a net worth from the junk yard. You can pay that amount to them and you now have a project. 'Course get your insurance settlement as well. Barring that, you are in Utah so someone may want it as a project. At that time, identify the cost, and post on this site.
I love my '94 but if totalled, I lack the skill and space to project it, so I would be on the market for a replacement.
Glad to hear your bro is OK

[JimC]

Just sell me the bulkhead and title!

[paulb]

There we go, knew someone would jump.
Wish I was more skilled...

[cbass]

Yeah guys, I don't know if we're going to part it out yet, but we might. If we do, I'll post here and let you all know!!


Here's some quick pics of the damage. You can see that the tree hit the driver's side frame rail square on, I think if it would have been to the right or left of the frame rail it would have ripped a lot farther into the body.

http://img135.exs.cx/img135/8690/landywreck50vt.jpg

http://img135.exs.cx/img135/4691/landywreck41zf.jpg

http://img135.exs.cx/img135/2921/landywreck30tl.jpg

http://img135.exs.cx/img135/9424/landywreck23hm.jpg

[Hans]

Honestly, far less damage than I expected to see. If you have collision coverage, I would be VERY surprised if they totaled it out. It all depends on how much the frame is out of whack, but the value of the truck is high so you never know.

If they DO repair it, make sure the body shop paints the inside all the new panels the same as the outside of the truck. It really makes the engine compartment look much nicer.

-Hans

[cbass]

man Hans, that is so good to hear (that they might not total it). I really hope they don't. I would love to make a project out of it to tell you the truth. The engine is fine, the radiator came about an inch from smashing into it. Looking underneath the car though, you can see that the crossmember at the very front of the car is out of whack though, so I am pretty sure the driver's side frame rail is pushed back at least a little bit.

The thought has crossed my mind of doing a full frame off with it and coating the frame and other chassis pieces, but that might be more work than it's worth.

If the frame is out of whack, does that mean that it would receive a "salvage" title?? I have not had any experience with something like this.

TIA!

[m.olivares]

hey Brad,
if decide to scrap it, you know where i'm at i'll take it all for my 100"...


i'd fix it if i were you guys though...sorry about the damage, glad your bro is ok...roads are getting real shitty today...be careful! :eek:

[cbass]

haha, sounds great Marc. I'll keep you posted.

So far (and I haven't looked at it really good yet) here's a short list of parts needed:

New Steering box with attached bolts and brackets
steering linkage (from steering wheel to steering box)
New right and left fenders
grill
frame (ouch)
hood
radiator and some of the attached hoses.
Fan
wheel arches (possibly included with the fenders, I haven't looked yet)
tie rod end
steering arm ball joint


I'm sure there'll be more when I get under there and look.

[Hans]

No, it shouldn't recieve a "salvage" title unless the insurance compay totals it out or somebody else changes the classification. Salvage is more a purpose than condition. I've had cars that needed frame straightening before and none ever had the title changed.

If you want to keep the truck as a project, now is a great starting point. Just make sure from the first conversation to tell the adjuster you want to repair the truck if possible, they may work something out with you in place of totalling it out (assuming they want to total it out). It all depends on the numbers, they may make an offer of a check less than the calculated repair costs and the book value of the truck. OR they may cut a check for the book value of the truck, but give you the option of buying it for whatever they deem the value in it's current condition. In that case, it WOULD have a salvage title most likely.

If it's not your primary transportation, you plan on keeping it for a long time, and have the time and capability to do it... Yank that body off and get the frame galvanized. Give an e-mail over to carcannibal.com and see if they have any white sheetmetal on hand, which would reduce the repair costs.

My only real important suggestion if you do repair it. Have a professional collision shop do the frame repair work. Don't skimp on getting the geometry corrected properly, everything from steering to cosmetics all depend on that frame being straight. If your insurance company offers to have it repaired at one of their "approved" shops, and offers a guarantee of the repair work, take it.

-Hans

[dave_lucas]

If the insurance company decides the Defender is a total loss (based on a percentage of the value vs the repairs that are required) it will receive a salvage title. However if they fix it the title should be a normal title but the value will be less than if it had not been wrecked if the wreck shows up on car fax.

I personally think that they will total it due to the extent of the damage. If it were my defender and they totaled it I would buy it back and completely rebuild it. Of course you will need to estimate how much the parts will cost you and how much the salvage title devalues it and then decide if it is worth it.

Do not underestimate how much it takes to repair or rebuild something like this. The little parts that you forget about will add up real fast.

Or

I really miss my D90 :( and have been looking for a project 90 (hint hint)

[JBurt]

I remember seeing a topic on here recently with a guy selling a new 99 as a parts vehicle. Of course you'd only need that if they did total it and you decided you didn't want to do any work yourself on the truck.

Either way, I'm with Hans, make sure you get the frame fixed right or else everything else will be for nought.

[JimC]

I wouldnt even attempt to straighten the frame. Cutting and replacing sections is the only real option. Since defender frames are not exactly hens teeth, I would just get a replacement. I sold my NAS 90 frame only 3 months ago for 1000 bucks. Keep an eye out and one will come up.

As long as the bulkhead isnt tweaked, this is actually not a very serious repair job - apart from taking the whole truck off the old chassis of course...

Even thats no big deal, its all just nuts and bolts.

[mhansen]

When I lived in Utah I hit a deer with our Disco II :cry The front bulkhead/radiator support , grill, bumper hood(bonnet) and fender(wing) had to be replaced-- including head light ,flare, brackets, fog lights etc.

The guys at Marque did a great job, all the way down to taking a picture of where the stickers were on the radiator support, and making sure that they went back in the correct spot. you really could not tell it had been smashed.

They were recomended by LR Centerville. There were 6 other rovers in their shop including a D-90 SW rollover.

oh ya it was $5500 :eek:

Good Luck

Marque Body & Paint, 530 W 600 S Bountiful UT (801) 292-6260

[Buckon37s]

That doesn't look totaled to me. That can be fixed without much effort. Your insurance company will not replace the frame. No shop will either. I don't think you need to anyway. If I were you, I would find the most rediculous body shop you can. Get an estimate. Take the estimate and get a check from your insurance company, then pick up the parts from George and get to work. New frame and all. You will make money on the deal for sure, and even have enough left over for some pimpin.

[cbass]

JimC,
I am assuming that you are referring to the rear bulkhead (between the passenger compartment and engine compartment). Is this the one you are referring to?? If so, I'm 99% sure it's OK. However, the front bulkhead/radiator support as mentioned by mHansen is definately screwed.

mHansen,
Was your frame damaged? What was done to fix it if so, cut and replace, or straighten??

Buckon,
You're saying that the insurance would still repair the frame though, right? Personally, I like your idea the best, and if I had my way (meaning that I find the time and resources) I would do that in a heartbeat.

Thanks for all the help with this!!

[JimC]

Yeah, I mean the bulkhead bulkhead. You'll find that the "front bulkhead" you mention is nothing more than the rad, a crosspiece, and the painted grill surround - its nothing really.

To be clear, of course frames are repairable, but my point was that I would avoid the hassle altogether and get a new galvanized frame.

[mhansen]

JimC,
mHansen,
Was your frame damaged? What was done to fix it if so, cut and replace, or straighten??

No frame damage. My Disco had less than 10K miles on it when the deer hit it. If another suicidal deer would cross my path: 1 I am a true believer in ARB Bumpers now, and 2 I would probably do the work myself now that the car has 75K miles on it. I would guess that Parts even from the Dealer would be less than $2000.00

When the time comes get a parts list together and send it out for quotes to various retailers.

Another thing is that is that most shops will not put used parts on the repair so that could have a substantial savings over the body shop, doing it yourself.

One last thing, if wreck was not your brother’s fault, you can deal with the other guy’s insurance company directly, and get a settlement. It may be a way to get out of having a salvaged title. and save some retail value.

[Shane@EVS]

If the frame is damaged I would want the vehicle totaled.
Average price for 94 D90 $25K(these are the values I would want from the ins. co.)
salvaged D90 auction value $5k
So I would personally buy the vehicle back or want 20k for repairs. Either way I would want to end up with the D90 back and 20k. This might be over optimistic but something to shoot for.

Once you have negociated this you can decide what to do next which will depend on you.
Sell the wrecked D90 and use the combined $$ to buy a new to you D90.

Repair the wrecked D90 using the skills of you and some good friends(including of coarse the D-90 source!)

Or my favorite :grin send the wrecked D90 to a land rover specialist to build it into the D90 you always wanted.

[Buckon37s]

"You're saying that the insurance would still repair the frame though, right?"

Yeah, there def going to repair it. They would just never replace it. You can come out on top in this pretty easy if you have the time to do the repairs yourself.

[Hans]

depending on the size of the dollar input..... I think Rovers North sells brand new frames for around $2500 or so.

Replace the frame with a new one, freshly galvanized. Then use the old frame, buy an old body tub somewhere, and make a matching trailer :-) If you were closer, I'd be interested in the old frame for just such a project.

-Hans

[cbass]

Yeah, I have been calling around for galvanized frames, and I guess they are all on some sort of a backorder thing, and they don't know when they'll be getting more in. I called Rovers North, DAP, and Atlantic British so far. The prices (if they had them in) range from $2500 (at RN like you said) to about $3700. So we'll see what we can do there. Thanks for all the advice, help, and input!!

Does anybody know where I could get a galvanized frame or at least an OEM one???

Update on my brother.... He went to the chiropractor the day of the accident and they did all the normal stuff, x-rays, tests, etc. He went back yesterday and the first thing the doctor said was, "Do you have a high threshold for pain??" Come to find out, he severely tore some ligaments in his neck from the impact. He's getting it all taken care of, and the doctor is hopeful that he will make a full recovery as long as he doesn't strain it more. He is being good about following doctor's orders. The crazy thing is that I haven't seen him complain about his neck at all since it happened. That kid's tougher than I am, LOL.

[cbass]

OK guys, it's been a little while, but here's where the D-90 stands.

The frame was bent, I was finally able to crawl under it and have a look around now that it's at a shop. The drivers side frame rail is bent really good and buckled just behind the front tire where the frame rail bends downward from coming over the axle. The metal is buckled more than 90 degrees, so straightening it is out of the question. It'll be a full frame replacement (which I am actually very happy about). The only problem is it's getting closer and closer to the insurance company talking about totalling it rather than repairing it. The estimate is up to $17,627 now (man I could do a lot if I had that much in cash!!!).

Attached is a full (so far at least) list of parts needed. I am posting it because I am hoping that some of you will have some of these parts cheaper (and faster) than what is quoted on the estimate. James, the guy running the repair shop is really good and has done quite a few Land Rovers and one other Defender. That other Defender was on the lot for 11 months because the parts took so long to get there. I really don't want to leave my truck there for that long, so any help is appreciated. Also, if I can find a better deal that what is quoted, I can maybe get some extra money out of the deal because insurance will reimburse you for the retail price (at least that's what I hear so far, anybody can correct me if I'm wrong).

Let me know if you have any of the parts in the attached pdf!!!

[Hans]

Ok, this is going to be a long one, I'll go over every item I think you can get significantly cheaper.
If you do a lot of legwork yourself, you can save a LOT of money on this. If you're going to go through with it, let us know and we'll do what we can to help track stuff down. Post up some ad's in the "Wanted" area, and keep an eye on the "for sale" section.

The main thing is to track down a frame, since that can get the work started quicker. I'd give EastCoastRover a call on that one, since they do the galvanized frame swaps, but they also convert 90's to 109's and MIGHT have some laying around. They do a LOT of stuff with frames actually.

Overall suggestion.... Junkyards such as Carcannibal.com (only Rovers), and sometimes the aftermarket or upgrade part will be cheaper as well.

Roversdownsouth.com has has a LOT of defender body panels at good prices but you need to actually call since the website lists only a fraction of the inventory.

1. $750 for bumper and grill guard? Easy to go cheaper. E-bay, lots of guys here might have one.
2. $800 for hood? I know Roversdownsouth had some good used ones for about half that, RoversNorth too.
3. $400 for a fan clutch? All over the place online for less than half that. Hell for the $600 for the fan, clutch and shroud... go with an electric setup and save $400.
4. $600 per fender? Should be able to get some good used ones for far less.
5. $300 for a crank pulley? Didn't some guys do engine swaps lately, they'd have one laying around.
6. $550 for radiator? Might as well get a custom 4-core done and throw the electric fans on it.
I KNOW that there are also some good radiatiors floating around.

ALso, 110 A/C condensor on e-bay right now for only $10.50 at the moment, 1.5 days left.

-Hans

[cbass]

OK, finally heard back from insurance and now they want to total it. We probably could get their estimate down by using used parts and other parts from different vendors and not have it totalled, but now we are thinking just total it, give it a salvage title and then buy it back from the insurance company and build it into the d-90 we always wished we could afford.

We would really like to keep it and don't plan on selling it anytime soon, so with that in mind...

Question: What would you do if you were in our shoes?

A. Take the truck with the salvage title and the extra money (in our case, we would get the truck back and still have about $18,000 to work with)

B. Total it (give the truck to insurance) and get the money back (roughly $22,000) and buy a new defender and not have much left over to do much to it modification-wise.

C. Whatever else you guys can conjure up.

Your input is appreciated!!

[Hans]

You know, $22,000 can go a LONG way toward an absoultely amazing Series III or IIa

About $5k-$10k could get you one that's ALREADY in great shape, then having another $10-$15k to put into it? yummy yummy

-Hans

[cbass]

Yeah, a series III would be a great idea. I'm going to start looking around right now...

Keep the ideas coming though!

[JimC]

If I hadn't spent money on things I didnt specifically need (like G4 seats and stainless everything), I could have dont my entire Tdi conversion for 18 easily. That included new galvy chassis, new motor, the works.

I would just call george at RDS and ask what 18k will buy you. It will be a lot.

[dave_lucas]

I would choose option A :)

But if you decide it is more work than you want to do I would be happy to give it a loving home. It would get all the loving and custom parts a 90 could ever want. :pimp