Rust Management

[loykd]

I removed my rear bumper to get better access to the rear crossmember so I could apply some rust protection. The more I look though, the more I see. (and the more I touch, the more I break :))

1. I broke three bolts when removing the bumper. My plan is to drill them out, then retap for replacement stainless (or Grade 8) bolts.

2. I've noticed a lot of rust in places that I can't get to with a paint brush, like inside the crossmember, where the mounting holes for a rear pintle are located. I've searched here and on the old BBS for info on the subject and it looks like waxoyl is the way to go. RN has the underbody protection in aerosol cans. I really don't want to go through a complete removal of the gas tank carrier again to get to everything. Not that any of YOU would ever do it, but I'm afraid that once I started taking things apart, soon my truck would look like Randy's strewn all over the garage and I'd next be asking for a galvanizing shop to do the whole frame... Yikes!

3. I intend to POR-15 the crossmember and rear bumper with paint over top.

Anyway... any tips on the above? How is all this for a plan?

[TDI Guy]

Ken, its not that bad....lol... well maybe it is. I would waxoyl the inside of the x-member... On my old frame, that was where it was rusted the most and right infront of the x-member behind the rear axle.

Randy

[paulb]

Ken, write out all that happens. I am close to the same boat. I spent the weekend looking at the underside. Removed the side steps - why in God's name are there 3 different bolt sizes on 4 bolts?? - and found it and the bolts badly rusted. That lead me back towards the rear bumper, cross member, and things I do not know what they are. Rust on everything. So, let me know how the RN protection is to put on. Do you need to scrape off ALL the rust, or just try your best?

[Chris Cox]

Do yourself a favor, and drop the tank skid plate. These are notorious for rusting out. It would be better to fix now, than to drop it in a couple of years and the support bars crumble to pieces. I took mine off, sandblasted it. I then took it to have it galvanized. After this, I coated the inside jonts with black Waxoyl. I know this sounds like overkill, but mud and water has a tendency to hold in these areas. Just my $.02.

The POR15 will work great, as long as you are painting bare metal. If you paint over existing paint, the effects of POR15 are greatly diminished. Make sure you buy the Tie-Coat primer if you intend to paint over the POR, because regular primer won't adhere well to it.

As for the frame, take the tank out and coat it right with the Waxoyl. When applied to a clean chassis, the stuff is supposed to last 5 years. During those 5 years, save up for a galvanized chassis :grin . This is what I plan on doing, as it costs almost as much to sandblast and glavanize a chassis as it does to buy a new one. Make sure you coat inside the chassis rails the best you can. Also, make sure the chassis is dry when you apply the waxoyl, as it will trap in water.

Just my $.02 worth.

Good luck.

Chris

[loykd]

Like a few others have posted recently, a while back I was poking and prodding the gas tank carrier and actually poked my finger all the way through it. Rust made it look like swiss cheese. Replaced with a locally manufactured 1/4" steel reproduction and painted with POR-15 along with their paint.

I presume that I can fit the aerosol can of waxoyl in the nooks and crannies of the crossmember to coat those areas that Chris talked about without dropping the tank carrier all the way. You know what a PITA it is. I was hoping that someone could confirm I could reach. I was also thinking about spraying into the crossmember from the open ends and through the assorted mounting holes. Hopefully, I'll get enough coverage that way. Do those aerosol cans work very effectively?

Randy, On first inspection, I see the same rust as you mentioned all around and behind my axles. (Why in the world didn't LR apply SOME sort of rust protection on the undercarriage?) I'll look you and Chris up for advice in 5 years...

[Troys]

Ken;

1. I got the keys. Thanks!
2. I have a sprayer that I bought form Eastwood for spraying undercoating (and Waxoyl). 3M makes a product I used on my Series truck and could get locally that looks and smells the same. I would be more than happy to mail it to you for your use and you could simply return when you were done. Just let me know and good luck!

Troy J. Smith

[loykd]

Troy, Great to hear that you got the keys! That's one mystery solved.

Is this the product you were talking about (aerosol can 3M™ Undercoating 08881):

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_aero/automotive_aftermarket/node_GSNDQCC5N8gs/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GSLPLPKL4Xge/bgel_X5DB42VZ1Jbl/gvel_6DTWTJQPBBgl/theme_us_aad_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

or is this (in a can 3M™ Body Schutz™ Rubberized Coating 08864 Black):
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_aero/automotive_aftermarket/node_GSYQLRLTGTgs/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GSLPLPKL4Xge/bgel_PSM6K102PFbl/gvel_6DTWTJQPBBgl/theme_us_aad_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

Why is waxoyl so much more expensive? Looks like this stuff is about $4/can vs $17/can for waxoyl.

[OCD90]

I'm not sure if I'm restating...but I had a 1965 Mustang with rotting floorpans, and I used a marine product that can be sourced in a boating supply store (not sure of the name).

It was a black paint-like liquid, and after a wire brushing, it was placed on the affected areas with a paint brush. Chemically, it bonded with rust to form another, harder material. Once dry/catalyzed (or whatever the process was), it was hard and it would not further corrode. It worked for many years--perfectly.

It is not an undercoating/rubberizer...it reacts with the rust, stabilizes it, and prevents further corrosion. For my money, it was worth it. Could be what others are mentioning...but try your local boating shop. It was amazing.

[Mike Hippert]

Ken, I bought some 3m stuff for the rear xmember. I got it at the auto parts store for about $5. It was in an aerosol can and I only had to beat off the rust with a wire brush. I sprayed everything I could see. If I could not see it or spray it the rust must not exist there (what you can't see won't hurt you). It is a little rubbery and looks good after 3 months.

[cdnpaul]

I believe the stuff Torrence is referring to is Ospho (wwwospho.com). It definitely kills the rust according to my buddy. I can't find it in Toronto in any of the marine stores though :(

[OCD90]

Yes! Ospho is it. Amazing. Just turns the rust into a stable element (something like that). Most other things seem to overcoat, seal or otherwise cover up the rust...while it contunues to rot undreneath.

http://www.ospho.com

You'd think I was a dsitributor...

Torrence

[mpodgorski]

i am having a rust management problem on the top edge of body in two areas. One is where the roll bar over the driver is, between the roll bar base and the front door. The other is on the back area where the rear soft top window bar attaches to the clips, the rust is surfacing between the clips and the door.
Any other peeps have this, should I repair ir or order new upper body strips?
cheers, thanks

[loykd]

interesting product. From a Google search: Ospho Metal Treatment. Resists and retards rust while providing a sound base for paint. Contains phosphoric acid.

They imply that it's supposed to be topcoated. Not trying to contractict you at all, Torrence. It's interesting that it works for you without topcoating. I've used other "rust converter" products and they haven't held up at all without a topcoat.

I ordered a couple of cans of waxoyl yesterday before I read all this good stuff. I'm going to keep my eye out for Ospho and for 3M products for the NEXT rustproofing project. I can think of one right now on my other vehicle.

[cdnpaul]

Ospho is definitely worth buying. My buddy has a D90 and a sailboat (which is how he found out about Ospho) and that stuff is amazing. He just takes a wire brush to the rust and then puts it on and watch it go to town. I'll be in MA next week and will definitely try to find it. The Ospho guy told me it's in quite a few ACE stores.

[Troys]

Ken;

The sprayer I have is sold as an undercoating sprayer but I used it to spray the inside of my frame with a 3M Rust Product. It is in a container similar to the second link you sent. It pours into a sprayer and looks and smells like Waxoyl. I'll look this weekend and let you know the name,

Troy

[paulb]

Well, I am off to get some Ospho and give it a try. I will top coat it with mat black Rustolium (sp?) paint which is $3.00 a little jar. If it works, it works. On the outside, my rear bumper looks so good now that I have 4 coats of Mothers Black (another D-90 source recommendation) polish on it, I am not taking it off or painting it.
Only down side - Sunday is the only day I can work on the underside and it looks like rain.

[loykd]

Rain in SoCal??? Is this the ONE day out of the year when that happens? BTW, you're more than welcome to some of our freezing rain for a little variety... haha

[Mike Hippert]

You could have helped me change my oil in the 20 degree weather last night.:grin

[loykd]

let me guess.... you were in shorts and a t-shirt, right?? :)

[Mike Hippert]

Did you see my tanning lamp?:cool:

[bd90]

I guess the chemistry behind all these products is pretty much the same but I bought some stuff called Naval Jelly at Lowes that came highly recommended for rust. (That's NAVAL not NAVEL) Seems to have worked pretty well and it requires a topcoat.

[Mike Hippert]

I have seen that stuff, how long have you had it on? What prep work did you do?

[bd90]

About a month on the rear axle only and it looks great with flat black Rustoleum. However, my 90 is not a daily driver, garage kept and no salty roads in winter. I expect it to last for at least several years with my driving habits. Up north it would be another story. Frankly, I think they're all the same. Sounds like basic high school chemistry to me. "OK class, how do we turn iron oxide into some other chemical? Anyone? Anyone?" I can't stop rust but I can probably slow it down a bit. As an alternative topcoat was thinking of using Hammerite but would like more info on it.

[paulb]

Y'all are funny on the weather. And yes, I will be dressed in shorts while removing rust this Sunday. Picture will be posted on Monday.
Navel jelly I have used in the past but thought it a rust remover. I understand Ospho initiates a chemical reaction to retard rust progression. Bottom line - anything is better than nothing.
From the photo below, I do not think my rust is bad, but I do not want it getting worse. I am looking to get some Ospho but after 6 auto and marine shops (everyone raves about the stuff) I can not find it. Local rep is not due for weeks and it can not be shipped UPS in CA (hazardous material). Oh costs here are $16 a quart, $40 gallon. Final piece of important information was all 6 shops discribed the same process for optimal results. Remove as much rust as you can by hand (sandpaper etc), apply Ospho, apply a primer coat (reg type), apply paint coat.

I'll take photos before during after just to see how it goes.

So day one - no work

[paulb]

Following on the thread about actual rust on the underside, I got a good look at my rear wheel wells and the underside protection, or lack of it. From the photo below, it looks like a lot of paint is visible. The black stuff that has flaking off is hard to remove by hand. I was going to get as much as possible off then apply an arosol rubber coat.
The questions:
Should I be concerned? Should this area and others like it be coated with something? If so, what are the recommendations? Will a new coating adhere to existing "flakes I can not remove?
I have seen the discussions and ads for Waxoyl but do not think I can get base that clean.
Any input appreciated.

[loykd]

Paul, have you looked closely at your gas tank carrier? You may have read the thread in which several of us have found huge holes lurking just under the paint. Push too hard on the surface and your finger will go straight through. If your truck spent much of it's life in the northern climes (and it looks that way from the amount of rust you have), the tank carrier may have suffered. I thought that I'd just repaint mine, but realized it made more sense to replace it instead.

Dave Lucas posted in the For Sale-Parts folder that he's arranged to have some slick SS tank carriers fabricated. Another alternative would be to take yours to a welding shop and have them replicate it out of 3/16" plate. Of course, you'll liberally apply Ospho/primer/POR-15 before reinstall... haha.

Oh, and btw, it's raining and about 35 degrees here in DC. Enjoy your damn sun!! haha

[paulb]

Roy, I spend about an hour on the underside. I had a wire brush, chop sticks (hey long and slender to get way in there) and a screw driver. I read Dave's info on the gas tank carrier and spend a bunch of time there. I did not find anything. Of course the big hunt is this Sunday. If it looks bad, out it goes and I'll see about the SS option.

[Campbell]

I would really like to have my D-90 undercoated and sprayed to protect it from future rust. I was thinking of going to a body shop to have this done. Do you guys have a list of places that should be done?
Thanks
Rich

[Eric_S]

There is an article in Rovers North News winter issue on Waxoyl that you might want to check out. You can download the PDF file from their website ( www.roversnorth.com ). I'm thinking about getting this done in the spring.

Eric

[RichardMoore]

take a look at
www.before-n-after.co.uk
for the low down on waxoyl

[Eric_S]

Sounds like it's the best thing since sliced bread. How common is it in the UK? And the $64K question, does it really work?

Eric

[Eric Siepmann]

I have had great luck with Waxoyl. Just keep in mind that you will need to maintain it... It will take a beating off roading and need to be reapplied.

EwS

[RichardMoore]

waxoyl is sold in just about every accesory shop in the UK, but just how much of the stuff thats sold gets applied properly is anyones guess. If you can apply it to where it's needed I reckon it's well up to the job.

[Davis]

My chassis is well painted (exterior) and I would not mind setting off a "waxoyl bomb" in the interior---how do I do this?

[jorge]

I had both trucks waxoyl in MA by Robison in Springfield.I'm very pleased with the results and highly recommend waxoyl.Check out robison service web site for further info on the subject.

[Neo]

Okay, I have to ask a stupid question. I am waiting on RN to send my shipment of Waxoyl out next week, so I have yet to actually see the stuff in person. Is anyone familiar with the product "Boeshield T-9?" I have used it for years on my boat to control/dissuade rust from forming, and so far, even in harsh Atlantic seaboard climate, it has stood the test of time. How different is Waxoyl from the Boeshield? Thanks!

Jeff

[Eric Siepmann]

Boesheild was originally designed as a lubricant by boeing. I ran into it about 7 years ago when they started marketing it as a chain lube.

The main diff would be the thickness. Waxoyl is much thicker. Also, the sole purpose of Waxoyl is to inhibit corrosion, whereas the Boesheild it is more of a side effect. I would stick to boesheild for corrosion and use the Boesheild on smaller less exposed parts, and as a lubricant.

EwS

[MonLand]

Bringing this thread back from the dead.
I am planning on making my own waxoil. Anyone has any experience on what mistake not to do?

[chris snell]

I did this and I'm not sure I'd do it again. It's kind of a pain and extremely messy.

Pros:

- On the exterior, I believe that the stuff I made actually did a good job. It surprised me. Last winter was very salty and nasty and from what I can tell, very little rust appeared on the external bits of my mostly rust-free truck.

- It's great if you are fluent in cheapfuckese.

Cons:

- It's a terrible mess to make and your hands and arms will smell for days.

- I didn't have any way to atomize it, so there was no way to effectively get it to coat the inside the frame. Frames rust from the inside out, so if you're not getting it inside the frame, it's not doing much good. A paint sprayer would probably not work because it's wax-based and cools+hardens quickly. Perhaps someone could work around this but it would still be a PITA.

- It's probably not very good for the environment to mix this crap up.

If I had to do it again--and I wouldn't--I'd mix it up in a pot on a hot plate and paint it on the frame and other parts with a paintbrush. Putting it in a garden sprayer was a dumb idea. I have no idea how to get it to spray on the inside of the frame.

Really, it's a dumb idea. Shell out the few hundred bucks for Waxoyl and do it right the first time.

Chris

[revtor]

Whats the waxoyl formula?

~Steve

[MonLand]

http://www.geocities.com/wallaces_21/waxoyl.html
http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,22473
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A1=ind0302c&L=vanagon <- This is the one I will follow as it goes into discussing different formulas.

[Manimal]

I have some rust on the inside of the rear crossmember. In the corner where it meets the frame rail. I'm not sure I can completely remove this by hand because it is hard to access. I have Waxoyl and the rest of the frame is Waxoyled. Is it bad if can't remove all the rust completely before I Waxoyl it? Is it better if I spray it with Rust cap of some sort?

[Frank84]

I'd make sure all that flaky/bubbly rust is gone before applying waxoyl, POR 15, etc. It will be tough to get in there but spend some time on it and you'll get there. Even just using a flat head screw driver to scrape off will help a lot. Then go with some coarse sand paper or something. Spending a little time now will save a lot of time later.

[dmarchand]

I have some rust on the inside of the rear crossmember. In the corner where it meets the frame rail. I'm not sure I can completely remove this by hand because it is hard to access. I have Waxoyl and the rest of the frame is Waxoyled. Is it bad if can't remove all the rust completely before I Waxoyl it? Is it better if I spray it with Rust cap of some sort?

In short, yes. The waxoyl will just hide the rust as it continues to eat away the metal. You need remove it. Might be worth finding a local mobile sandblaster and have them blast the frame.

[Manimal]

What about the inside of the rear crossmember?

It's hollow and open on the sides, right?