Interceptor 5.2

[lrnasd90]

** Note from Admin: This thread started as a Classified that turned into a technical discussion and has been copied here to this section to continue. The original classified posting still is in the For Sale - Parts section should you have an interest. **

I am going to sale my Interceptor 5.2. I am going to convert to a HS 2.8TGV. (I already have it...it's a beauty) I realize that most people on this site would rather spend their money to go my direction---diesel, but on the chance that you want to spend some money and go with a LR engine that puts out 340hp/360lbs torque then I have the set up for you. The engine/ancillaries, exhaust, Upgraded large bore plenum, GEMS system upgrade, and Carbon Fiber intake only have 12k miles. The LT230 and transmission have 43k on them. I would like to sale this as a complete setup. Below is a list of cost of each item. Engine and other items where installed by ECR ( http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Bailey.html ) All of this is still installed in my truck in case you want a test drive. But in the next few months or so it will be sitting on a crate in the corner.

Upgraded large bore plenum $1650.00, GEMS system upgrade $1875.00, Upgrade to Carbon Fiber intake $225.00, Long Block 5.2 $13500.00, NRP Complete Exhaust $1300.00, LT230 $1550.00, Transmission $1995.00 and Ancillaries/ETC $1650.00 for a grand total of $23745.00 I will take 11k for all of it. This engine will fit into other Rovers. Please pass this around...I really need the money to continue on with my diesel conversion. Shoot me an email for any question.

Jeromy Landers
nefron@gt.rr.com

[Art Vigil]

Jeromy, I gotta ask.
It sounds like such a great motor with excellent performance, and especially after all the expense to put it in, why take it out? I'm not questioning your personal judgment, just simply curious and truly interested in your opinion based on your experience, so I can have some more information when I have to make the decision to replace my engine (hopefully a long way off).
I'm running a supercharged 4.0 and would still like more power & torque. When my engine goes, I plan to replace it with a supercharged 4.2, built 4.6 or a 5.2 unless I decide to take it to the UK when we move, in that case I'll swap in a TDI solely based on the price of petrol there.
Hella nice rig by the way.:thumbs

[lrnasd90]

Well that is a good question and it is a wonderful engine, but I did not put it in. The previous owner did. I bought the truck with it already installed with the intent of taking it out and swapping it to a diesel. I figured that I could get enough money from the engine to do the swap. The engine runs great and on a recent trip of over 800 miles returned a little better than 15mpg...pretty much unheard of for a NAS 90, plus I had plenty of power to take all the hills...never got below 75. This truck will easily do that and more. I have no idea of "how fast it is" but I can tell you that I can easily smoke a New Dodge truck with a 360 in it...no much of a race, but way better than my other d90 would do.

[wicks]

0-60 time would be very interesting.

On all of ECR's pages and on all the tens of thousands spent, there's not a single figure cited.

[lrnasd90]

As stated on the RPi Engineering site by Mike ( The 4.6 Stage III we put into the 1995 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon now has plenty of break-in miles on it, and we took it to the track today. Stock 3.9 in this 90 ran 12.5 seconds 0-60 The 4.6 ran a best time of 7.78 seconds 0-60 this morning! Wow! http://www.rpiv8.com/comments-engine.htm ) So I would imagine it would be better than that.

[wicks]

That's an impressive figure! Wow, the 5.2 must be incredible.

[evilfij]

Stock 3.9 in 12!

That is way off unless it is an auto 4.0. G-tech says I can do 8.5 in my stock 3.9 and second is really slow (of course I think I can drive a bit :) ).

I saw a published figure of 8.8 for a 5 speed v8 disco.

Ron

[evilfij]

Of course the BMW does it 2 seconds quicker :)

[rover4x4]

12 sec. I think i also differ.

[lrnasd90]

Well one thing that I know for sure-- what ever it is it is way faster than any stock 3.9. I had a 95 SW and and my uncle and I race from the light....well let just say absolutely no comparison. I had already made it to the next light and completely stopped before he even got close.

[leafsprung]

D90 owners constantly amaze me. 24K for an engine, then they pull it out to put in a little 150 hp diesel with less torque that you cant get parts for.

-Ike

[neo812]

You guys clearly have no idea how fast your D-90's are. It is impossible to get 8 second times from a stock D-90. I have driven all kinds of fast cars,and I can tell you that Jeromy's truck is probably faster then anyones on this site. Peter Reed has a truck that is almost as fast. It was purchased from myself and Jeromy. And it is not quite as fast as the 5.2. So you may not be interested in the engine,but I assure you ,it is faster then any stock 90. It will beat the pants off of mine.

[Buckon37s]

You guys clearly have no idea what a D-90 is supposed to be used for. :grin If you want a fast car. Buy a fast car, if you want a 4-wheeler buy a Defender. As far as the Diesel goes, it slaps the gas models around OFFROAD like a $2 whore. If all that matters is how fast they jump a green light, sell it and get something else. lrnasd90: you are going to LOVE that 2.8.

[leafsprung]

Must be why you see so many diesels in all the competitive 4wd events . . . Hell I drive a diesel rover every day and wheel it. Its over-rated, expensive, underpowered (140 hp/250 ft/lbs) sucks in the mud, only ok on rocks, loud, slow, oily, smelly, smokey and generally unpleasent. Not sure why I like it honestly, it just isnt that great and I donno what all the fuss is about.

[Buckon37s]

What weve got here is a difference in opinion. I could not be happier and the engine for rock-crawling is awesome. Mine is tuned over 140 and it is reletively easy to get 200bhp out of them. The thing is, its totally different than gas. You own one, you should know what I mean. It comes stock with 111 bhp and in a gas model that wouldn't even get the truck rolling but that thing took me 80 mph with no trouble at all. Mark my words, in the next couple years you are going to start seeing a major influx of diesels in cal roc and others. Cummings scorpion was one of the first to get it. In 4 low I can walk next to the truck while it idles up massive grades. People still 4-wheel in mud? Seriously, you are going to need different equipement for different terrain. BUT, the diesel kicks the gas ROVER engines all around the playground!

[neo812]

Thank You ,David. I have always said people drive Rovers for the wrong reasons. Diesel engines never run hot,never die from electrical problems,get 3 times the mileage,and run for twice as long. How many postings have you seen from the diesel guys ,crying because their diesel won't crank for some mysterious reason?
Defenders were never intended to go fast. Making one go fast is asinine. It is still a 4X4,use it for that and it will excel,try to make it into something else and it will always be lacking.

[dmarchand]

It's a shame people have turned a honest 'for sale' advertisement into a debate about gas vs. diesel (HP vs. torque). Let the guy sell the engine for gods sake!

Edit: CVC, thanks for moving this portion of it. Perfect administration as always.

[chrisvonc]

No problem... Figured it was a good thread but as you pointed out, it was a shame it was piling onto Jeromy's listing.

Quick copy and a few fast edits and deleting, and everything is motoring along again.

[neo812]

In response to Ike Goss about it being crazy to spend 24k on an engine and then yank it out and install a diesel...I agree, but I myself did not put the engine in the truck and I paid no more for the truck because of it being there.

What kind of diesel are you running?

I am really looking forward to be able to drive more than 165 miles on a tank of fuel. And the off road reliability seems to be way better with a diesel. Besides all of the ROW spec D90s only come with diesel...unless they are some kind of special edition. Meaning to me that D90 where designed for and around a diesel power plant.

Don’t get me wrong it is very fun to drive around 360hp, but I really don’t think it very useful except around town. And I am spending all of my money to make it better off road. So I think that it will suit me better.

[neo812]

I "Jeromy" lrnasd90 post the above...Kris was just logged into my computer...woops

[leafsprung]

David, The cummins powered scorpion has been running for like 5 years . . . its nothing new. If it was going to catch on it would have done it by now. Gasoline power is so much cheaper, fuel injection negates the the diesel's advantage over carbed gassers and its difficult to develop wheelspin to climb those steep hills will a slow reving diesel. They will probably never be as popular in 4wd motorsport as a result. I wheel on trails . .mud, rock etc. I really only wheel one of my rovers so it has to do it all cant really have "different" equipment. Is your truck done? On your avatar it looks like its in pieces?

Kris - Diesels normally run warmer than gas engines and they certainly run hot at altitude, they certainly have issues starting in cold weather. And we'll see who's crying when you have to buy parts for the first time! A rover v8 gets like 12 mpg right? if you get 36 mpg I would be very surprised. 25 would be impressive. Im curious to see what sort of longevity the 2.8 offers as most folks cant run the 300tdi for more than 100K without major service. 2.8 still have that timing belt?

I have driven a diesel powered rover every day for the last 6 years. Driven everything from a 2.0L NA to my current truck with the turbo cummins. Diesel power has a lot of shortcomings people tend to turn a blind eye to when they buy into the "latest and greatest" from ECR et al.

-Regards
-Ike

[evilfij]

"It is impossible to get 8 second times from a stock D-90."

G-tech says otherwise.
I do have somewhat better tires on it, and it has OME HDs on it but they should not matter. On a 97 for sure no way into the 8s, but the five speed gets out of its own way.

Ron

[Buckon37s]

Hey Ike,

My truck is together. The avatar is a bad pic under the hood. I know the scorpion is not new, it was one of the first. I don't think that they are ideal in mud but rockcrawling, I think they are exceptional. The day of the slow smokey diesel is over. The Grand Cherokee is going to be coming in with a diesel, also the toureg's diesel won engine of the year, and other companies are coming shortly behind. There are drawbacks to every system but a lot of pluses. Also, they are so very easy to modify. $500 can get a ps to over 500 HP and 700lbs of torque. That will spin those tires!! People have pigeon holed these engines and they are just now getting over the stigma.

"fuel injection negates the the diesel's advantage over carbed gassers" - I am not sure I totally get this. In the end it is an opinion thing. I would not trade my diesel for anything. If I could have my way I would pull it and put in a cummings with a propane injection. Nothing like an extra 60% HP and 40% better gas mileage.

Oh, and the gas mileage. I average 28 mpg on 37in tires. They are just way more eficient! I use it mostly on the Highway though. In the end I would put the engine for all around performance up against anything. Merry Christmas everybody!;)

[leafsprung]

David,
A great advantage to the diesel is running at steep angles where a carbed gasser will not, will fuel injection you get the ability to run at steep angles as well. You also see a lot more gearing options than you used to for 4wds, who needs the low torque of a diesel with 100+:1 crawl ratio? The significant initial expense of a diesel over a gas engine is never likely to be offset by fuel savings alone. Theres no advantage to a diesel that a fuel injected vehicle with low gearing cant match. And you can set one up for thousands less. Propane, doesnt offer the sort of performance increases you mention. A good friend installed propane on his cummins powered gladiator and he is seeing 10 extra hp and 16 ft/lbs with fuel consumption up 3 mpg. I had considered installing it on my cummins powered rover, but theres no room to fit a tank and with only a modest increase in power it didnt seem worthwhile. It will be interesting to see how many diesel SUVs they sell; at a 10,000 dollar option in the Toureg Id be surprised to see many.
-Ike

[Buckon37s]

Good points Ike,

All good, just gotta disagree on a few points! There are advantages to a Diesel that a gas engine can not match. Water resistance, gas milage, aperating cost, and you mentioned wheel spin, at 100 to 1 you are going to be rocket shifting a five speed to get a whole 10mph out of it in order to match a diesel. And, Diesels can be geared too, all of a sudden you have some serious power. I also had a buddy that added propane and got major power gains. Of course, you have to get used to your truck smelling like sh*t! It will catch on, I am betting. Look at the VW TDi it sells for 4 k more than the other Jetta model and they sold so many so fast that they ran out. Used ones were selling for as much as new for a while there! Plus I only paid $3000 for the conversion so I will have it paid for in gas some time, but no, nobody should do this if your motivation is to save money.

[leafsprung]

Advantage of gas milage is negated by initial expense, wading is about the worst thing you can do to a truck, but if you really want to, prepping a gas engine isnt that hard. Just because you have 100:1 doesnt mean you have to use it if you need some wheelspin . . . Your (Im assuming used Tdi) was 3000 while a NEW crate 350 would be around 1400.
-Ike

[Buckon37s]

$3000 for the engine, trans, transfer case, ready to be dropped in, no way you can beat that with a 350 crate. BCB will do it for about $10,000. There is no way to make a gas as water proof as a diesel, no matter how much silicone you use. If you don't use the 100 to 1, you lose the torque, diesel wins, you do use it, you lose the wheel spin, diesel wins. I am just saying, you think about everything at once, and it makes more sense. At least in my opinion :)

FYI; It was $5000 for everything, sold the old engine for $2000 so the COST for me was $3000. In the interest of full disclosure.:tounge

[wicks]

The 4.0 V8 actually isn't that bad, I'm just hasty.

I think rover drivers are perhaps a little scared of putting the pedal all the way down. If you get practiced on keeping your foot in a good position, keep the throttle cable well greased, and get used to planting the pedal, it accelerates quite well.

[leafsprung]

BCB adaptor to rover T-case is 850 I donno where you are getting 10 grand. If it was 5K for used parts and you could get 4 New small blocks for that! A decent 350 has more torque at 1800 RPMs than the 300Tdi so I donno how the "diesel wins" It also spins faster so you are going to get the best of any given set of ratios with the gas engine whether you want top end speed, wheel spin etc.
-Ike

[Buckon37s]

The BCB guys will charge you 10k if you drop off the truck and throw the keys to them and say, "See you in 4 weeks". Now we are comparing a 350 to the tdi, well, ok, that is an interesting arguement. But you might as well then compare that engine to the Ram V8 Diesel. Gotta play on an even field. The Diesel is just a way better option to me. I will never own another truck that is not diesel. The mpg, ease of ownership, torque. If you want to go super fast and do not want to pimp out the diesel, go gas. Or, buy a.....car. Anyway, a stock TDi compared to a stock rover engine, in my opinion :) there is not comparison. Especially offroad. But all I do is play in the rocks, if I was on sand or mud it would be a totally different story.

[neo812]

I agree with David on this issue. I realize that to some of you the V8 is a perfectly good engine. And I have had both diesel and petrol trucks. I also agree that someone who is trying to pay for the conversion in fuel savings is going to be sadly disappointed. However,I have waterproofed petrol engines,they still will fail due to moisture very quickly. As to the running temp,Yes,they run warm,however all of my Rover V8's ran way too hot in arduous conditions, a diesel is not as prone to this problem. As to engine longevity,I have been around diesel vehicles my whole life,and my daily driver is a Ford Powerstroke. They will outlast a gas engine by twice as long with regular maintenance.

[tbmcneill]

overall, i think the diesels are good motors b/c of the points already mentioned. but, personally, i shyed away from putting one in my truck for rockcrawling (a Tdi, at least) once I did the research on them last year.

the problem with the diesel isn't the HP you 'can' get ... its the HP you DO get at low rpm ... which isn't much in any setup that would fit into our trucks.

Now the new 2.8 with the variable turbo has some promise & may end up being reasonable enough for a rockcrawler (IMO). I was able to ride shotgun with a guy that dropped one in a Disco & he seemed to be able to generate reasonable HP 'off-the-line'.

Diesels can be geared too, all of a sudden you have some serious power.

I wouldn't call it power (as in horsepower), but rather an increase in torque. There's no way a diesel is going to match a petrol for off the line power (again, in anything that would fit in our trucks).... which is exactly what you need when trying 'bump' up rock ledges when rockcrawling. All the torque in the world is no replacement for HP when you've got to go vertical. Every other 'advantage' a diesel has to offer in rockcrawling can be duplicated in a gas motor with gearing & fuel injection.

I've wheeled with most of the 'hardcore' diesel-powered D90s in the country over the past year or so & every one of them has problems generating low-end grunt. That said, I'm still waiting to hit something like Patzcuaro's in Las Cruces with someone that's dropped in one of the 2.8s to see what it can really do.

That's not to say you can't rockcrawl with the Tdi, though. Kyle Caskey, Bill Ritchie, Jim Pendleton, Geoff (can't recall his last name at the moment) all run the same hardcore trails all the gas powered guys do ... albeit with a little different driving style & run them well.

well, gotta go ... just heard Santa on the roof.... :xmas
T

[Buckon37s]

Man this is fun. Merry Christmas Troy, and everybody! Jeromy, get that thing in and meet us in Las Crusas. Seeing is believing in the end ;)

[tbmcneill]

David-
are you going to make it cruces this year? you'll have a blast if you do. I hope we can finally meet. i'm still working on the details to make the trip, but hopefully work will cooperate .... though, i won't be there in my truck, but riding shot in Tisdale and Yousef's trucks ... Unless Yousef lets me drive!!:eek:

anyhow ... should be fun. There was some talk about Pendy and crew coming, too.

But, Merry Christmas to you, as well.
Take care-
T

[TwisteD90]

Troy, If I can't make it then the D90 will need someone to take her to Cruces :)

[rover4x4]

I'll do it :demented

[snuffer]

Hmm, different equipment for different terrain. Does that mean sometimes gas is better than diesel. I think LandRover got it about right for the U.S. with the NAS 90, when we start to modify them they become more specialized and compromized in some aspects but thats OK too.

[Buckon37s]

Yep randy, gas is better in mud and sand and snow. No doubt. Hey Troy, I am going to make it but just the last 2 days. I'll buy you a couple beers!

[tbmcneill]

hey, if you're offering, I'm accepting!!:grin seriously, glad to hear you'll make it ... if only for part of it. looks like there's going to be a good rover turn out.
T

[Buckon37s]

Awesome, I'm really looking foreword to meeting everybody!